Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

[KA.]

Hey there,

I had a weird idea for how to simulate a limited form of "Desolidification".

Back in the old days, you used to be able to buy Desolidification in a way that was somewhat similar to Tunneling: The more points you spent, the more "Desolid" you were, at least as far as what you could pass through.

Now you can buy certain limitations on Desolid, but it still doesn't mesh that well with certain concepts.

So, I was looking at another way to do it.

What I wanted was:

1) Some ability to avoid damage, but not absolute invulnerability. And a way to decide how much "avoidance" I wanted.

2) Something for characters that could not pass through solid objects, but could pass through things like a jail cell or a chain link fence.

3) A way to have these lesser benefits without having to buy "Affects Real World" on all my powers, since I wouldn't really be "Desolid", just harder to hit.

 

Here is what I came up with:

Shrinking, with Invisible Power Effects.

First the SFX.

Rather than a character staying at the same density and getting smaller, they could stay at the same size and get less dense. They look the same, but there is more "space" between their particles.

This is where the DCV bonus comes in. You can "hit" their "body", but the chances of it passing through an "empty spot" are increased. So they get the DCV bonus.

Since their "size" is different than it appears, they can pass through the same sorts of things that a normally "shrunken" character could.

If the Shrinking they bought was enough that they could normally have walked through the holes in a chain link fence, then they can pass through a chain link fence. They just sort of "line up" the solid parts so that they pass through.

Since they only have a DCV Bonus and some ability to move through things, they do not have to have "Affects Real World", after all, Desolid protects you from things like Area of Effect, and this would not.

And, since they are "less massive", the extra Knockback makes perfect sense. If you hit them, they will go flying.

 

I am not worried about Points Efficiency, I just think this might fit some concepts better than Desolidification.

 

What does everyone else think?

 

Oh, one more thing, 99% of the time, I am the GM in our group.

So please don't just bash this as something I am trying to "sneak past my GM".

I'm not.

 

KA.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

I like it!

 

One question though. I am wondering if the IPE part of this construct should be split up the way examples have shown for a gun that fires an 'x-ray' laser (the gun itself is visible but the attack it fires is invisible). For this version of the shrinking mechanic, the first level of IPE would hide the fact that you are shrinking but not that you are immaterial in some sense. Others can see when the power is active (objects and EB's sometimes pass through you) but you can still affect them.

 

This could be a fun lesson for other GM's to retrain any game mechanic players in their games that would naturally underestimate said characters offensive punch when he 'appears' to be desolidified but is instead using this variant.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

This is a cool use of a power ... I like it, innovative. Should make a few players and GMs alike go "hrm"

 

kudos, that gets rep.

[Kirby]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

Hey there,

I had a weird idea for how to simulate a limited form of "Desolidification".

 

What I wanted was:

1) Some ability to avoid damage, but not absolute invulnerability. And a way to decide how much "avoidance" I wanted.

2) Something for characters that could not pass through solid objects, but could pass through things like a jail cell or a chain link fence.

3) A way to have these lesser benefits without having to buy "Affects Real World" on all my powers, since I wouldn't really be "Desolid", just harder to hit.

 

What does everyone else think?

If you don't mind going an alternate route, my suggestion is to buy teleport in the amount of running your character has, with a limitation of "visible," as well as line of sight (maybe?) and not through solids.

 

To make you harder to hit, maybe buy some DCV levels linked to the telporting (so it'll be active the phase you teleport up to your next phase). This way, you won't get the DCV just for standing around being an average Joe, but if you use your teleport/desolid in combat, your 'harder to hit' aspect would make more sense that way.

 

Finally, to lessen the damage, I suggest buying Damage Reduction 25% three times, and probably for both PD & ED. One on a 14-, the second an 11-, and the last on an 8-. With these, you'd only roll 3d6 once. If you rolled a 15-18, no reduction; if you rolled 12-14, then 25%; 9-11 would be 50%; and 3-8 would be 75%. You could also buy this as "visible," so if someone shot you with an energy blast, some might hit you, while a bit might phase through you. The same with physical blast like a bullet. Some hits, some fragments go through. This could also be described to a person hitting your character as maybe "like punching water." If you only wanted the damage reduction to apply after teleporting, buy it as "linked," or if you only wanted it during combat, maybe buy it with "costs END."

 

Dang, I like this idea, I may have to use it! I hope you like it too, though, or that something from it helps.

[KA.]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

First, let me say thanks to everyone for the positive comments.

Now, on to specifics.

 

Hyper-Man,

Nice idea on the IPE. I was thinking of ways that someone could tell that something was going on, but not be sure exactly what.

 

ghost-angel,

Thanks! One of the challenges I face as a GM is coming up with something "new" without bending the rules too hard. I love the Hero System, but one thing that you have to be on guard against is letting it get too "generic".

No matter how menacingly you describe Professor Photon's Light Blaster, the players are still sometimes thinking:

"Energy Blast or RKA? Oh well, I have plenty of Resistant ED. Shouldn't be a problem."

I don't come up with weird constructs to "screw" my players. They just seem to have a lot more fun when I keep them on their toes. Having a "new" power show up once in a while can be a good way to do that. And, I don't ever like to just "handwave" and say "The Villain can have this power, but you can't."

So, I always try to build things with points.

 

Kirby,

I like your idea very much. Not necessarily as a replacement for mine, but as another alternative.

I was planning on using mine for something like a Sandman-type character. Yours, on the other hand, would be a great idea for someone who was supposed to be partially "Out of phase", like someone from another dimension, or someone with some type of Time Distortion powers, or for a Speedster if you link it to their movement.

 

Thanks to everyone,

 

KA.

[nexus]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

Thanks! You might have just single handedly solved a problem I was having with a rather odd character.

[Ben Seeman]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

That's what I'm talking about. I love this system.

[KA.]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

Thanks! You might have just single handedly solved a problem I was having with a rather odd character.

Very glad to hear than nexus.

Care to share the details, or is it something that shouldn't show up on the boards.

(I GM, so sometimes I have to leave things off that my players should not see.)

 

KA.

 

P.S. Thanks for the nice comment, Ben.

[nexus]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

Very glad to hear than nexus.

Care to share the details, or is it something that shouldn't show up on the boards.

(I GM, so sometimes I have to leave things off that my players should not see.)

 

KA.

 

P.S. Thanks for the nice comment, Ben.

 

The character is called "The Murder" and he is basically..well a hive minded flock of crows.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

That's a cool write up KA. Personally, I would have used Desol with Doesn't Protect Against Damage and Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (so you don't have to buy APW on everything, but can still slip through small openings) and Damage Reduction to cover the partial reduction in damage (funny how something that litteral can actually work).

 

You got something quite clever there, and well worth looking at twice.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

I'm going to chime in and agree with... oh, I forget. Whoever mentioned Damage Reduction, linked. I don't think it would be all or nothing... I think the more 'desolid'/shrunk you are, the less percentage of the damage you would take, but you'd still be just as easy to hit, right?

[KA.]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

I'm going to chime in and agree with... oh' date=' I forget. Whoever mentioned Damage Reduction, linked. I don't think it would be all or nothing... I think the more 'desolid'/shrunk you are, the less percentage of the damage you would take, but you'd still be just as easy to hit, right?[/quote']

 

Not trying to start a debate (famous last words;)), but I think it depends on what you are trying to emulate.

 

Take a look at what nexus mentioned.

 

Imagine that the character looks like a figure in a long black hooded cloak, but what is inside is really a flock of crows that all share the same "mind".

 

If you shoot into the cloak you will have a somewhat lesser chance of actually hitting one of the crows, (Increased DCV).

But, if you hit, it will do full damage to the crow, and to the "flock" via the shared mind.

And, since it is not as "heavy" or "solid" as a human form would be, you would do more knockback to the "figure" (assuming that the flock holds together inside the cloak).

 

I am not trying to "replace" Desolid or Damage Reduction, this is just another alternative that might fit certain builds better.

 

I think Damage Reduction is a great way to go, if you are looking for a "rubbery" or "squishy" type of build.

 

I just kind of like to keep things within a certain number of "degrees of modification".

 

I know that the basic concept of Hero is that SFX is king and it doesn't matter what the name of the Power is, but when I find myself having to make a Power jump through too many hoops, I start thinking that there might be another power that would do the job better.

 

Shrinking + IPE just seems to be a little "cleaner" for certain concepts than Desolid with several modifiers on it.

 

But that is just me.

 

KA.

[zornwil]

Re: Shrinking + IPE = Desolid (Sort of . . .)

 

I love it because it also represents that the size of that which is SOLID is decreased! It allows you to change THAT size while the "outline size" remains the same. Simply an incredible innovation and great work. Commendable, KA!

 

I'll have to think more about this - interesting implications - what if the Area Effect is such as many my old Urban Druid character had, such as "Hail of Trash"? A suitably "small" character under this guise could be missed entirely, SFX-wise.

 

What about "Linked Desolid: Only Against Items Less Granular than Character"? I dunno, I wonder how that might work in combo...interesting notion. Of course the value of the Limitation on that Linked Desol necessarily shrinks as the character becomes more granular. Odd thought.

 

And what about increased Density - "Growth, IPE"!

 

Interesting, interesting, there have been many threads about a true gradual density decrease/increase power. This may factor into a perfect canonical solution.