theskaven Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hello fellow Hero Games geeks. I have a science based gadget type hero with a large gadget pool. In a recent campaign event, aliens have invaded Earth and have the ability to shape shift (cellular level) into other forms (including human form). My character wants to design a power for the power pool that will allow him to detect whether a given person is as they appear or one of these aliens. Any ideas for what that power would be? At the moment I am thinking a Detect, but not sure how I can structure the mechanics to get around that "cellular level" advantage. The character is a scientist, remember, and has skills in Biology, Microbiology, Physics, Chemistry, Robotics, Cybernetics, Quantum Physics, and more. Any help is appreciated! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift You might consider Suppress or Dispel Shapeshift. It wouldn't actually have a Detect-type effect; the character would have to deliberately apply the Power on a trial-and-error basis, which may or may not work for you. Also, anyone would be able to view the result, rather than just your character. Between the two Powers, I would choose Dispel. With the aliens having an innate SS ability their altered form would only be Dispelled for one Phase... just long enough to be revealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nharwell Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift If your character can capture one of the aliens, simply test to see which "senses" their shapeshift doesn't fool, and then build a device using that sense. Given the cost of shapeshift in 5E, it's highly unlikely that their shapeshifting powers work against ALL senses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Hello fellow Hero Games geeks. I have a science based gadget type hero with a large gadget pool. In a recent campaign event, aliens have invaded Earth and have the ability to shape shift (cellular level) into other forms (including human form). My character wants to design a power for the power pool that will allow him to detect whether a given person is as they appear or one of these aliens. Any ideas for what that power would be? At the moment I am thinking a Detect, but not sure how I can structure the mechanics to get around that "cellular level" advantage. The character is a scientist, remember, and has skills in Biology, Microbiology, Physics, Chemistry, Robotics, Cybernetics, Quantum Physics, and more. Any help is appreciated! Thanks I am not that familiar with the cellular level advantage. Does it state that it would fool even a blood test like in the movie "The Thing"? If so it appears that the only way to discriminate short of the suggested Dispell method would be Mental Power based. But IF a blood test could work all you need to do is build a focus with all the appropriate detects, analizes and such with the addition of the Rapid Sense to the appropriate level that you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Detect is your best bet, actually -- even against the cellular adder. Consider the following... #1> Detect active use of shapeshift power / Detect person that is shapeshifted #2> Detect non-terran sentient (mental group) #3> Detect person engaging in subterfuge #4> Detect person with superpowers / Detect active use of superpowers What cellular does is to full one particular test against shapeshift (does the DNA match the new shape?). Depending on how superpowers work in your campaign #4 could be fooled by cellular; similarly you might rule that enough mental defense could foil #2 or #3. Invisible Power effects on the Shape Shift could foil any of the above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magmarock Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift In the movie They Live, the good guys had sunglasses to see the aliens with: http://imdb.com/title/tt0096256/plotsummary Nifty, breakable focuses. Mags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamamura Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift The shapeshift while it would fool a someone looking at just the cells, may have other effects that are traceable. This could be anywhere from strange energy readings, celluar stress brought on by the change (it looks human but there are a great number of damaged cell indicating a recnt shift),to the presence of certain chemicals and hormones in the blood. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Do small pieces of these aliens remain in human form once separated from the whole alien? In other words, if I take a 1cc blood sample, will it change back into alien blood? Or would that be missing the whole point of the "Cellular" adder? Zeropoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Have the detect work on "bio-energy readings" or just plain invent something like the comics do, say, detect true form sfx "vita-ray frequencies" and boom, there you go. Captain Spacer exclaims, "Stop foul villain! my vita-ray scanner indicates that you are not what you claim to be. Reveal yourself now or face the ravaging rays of my omniblaster!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Game mechanics wise, this is an easy fix. Just make your Detect an Unusual Sense Group sense. If the aliens don't have Shape Shift versus your specific Detect, then it can't be fooled by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanthis Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Just make sure you define your Unusual Sense as not using Simulated Sense Groups, otherwise it'll likely be covered by Shapeshift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift A lot of this, as I’m sure you realize is going to depend on your GM and the kind of story he is trying to tell. With the rather scant information we have, it is possible that your GM doesn’t want your group able to detect the aliens with the use of a power. (Did the GM disallow other “mystery busting†powers like Telepathy or Clairsentience?) If the GM is using the cellular level adder, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that they have inherent to go with it and 0 END Persistent. If you haven’t already, ask the GM if this is his/her intent, because you could spare both of you a lot of frustration. The extreme opposite action is that the GM just wants a little effort that is no different than you normally put into your gadgets, than go with the weird science answer. I’d go with a brain wave scanner, particularly if they don’t have the mental sense group covered. The final possibility is that the GM expects you to be able to build a power to do it, but wants you to work at it. In this situation, the GM has at least one, if not more, simple possibilities to detect the aliens, but you have to capture an alien for study first. Possibilities for this could range from strange kirlian (sp?) auras, trace radioactivity, trace presence of unusual chemicals, magnetic fields, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Soulcatcher Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Although the "cellular adder" might make the aliens have human cells, the basic genetic material should have some differences or else how do they change back. Even if they don't use genes and therefore can mimic genes there should be something that you can detect, whether its strange chemicals, wierd energy signatures or something else. Something must still remain of the Alien to allow them to turn back. A Detect Power should work. There were some reasonable suggested examples in an earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Hmmm...just HOW human do they become? What about a large area 2d6 Ego Attack vs the Alien mind group. Aliens get headaches, but humans don't even notice. If they're classed as "human", it won't work. Has your character had the oppportunity to examine one or more aliens in detail? I'd probably require this as a prerequisite for being able to design any detection device, especially if the intent is that it's difficult to detect their physiology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theskaven Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Detect is your best bet, actually -- even against the cellular adder. Consider the following... #1> Detect active use of shapeshift power / Detect person that is shapeshifted #2> Detect non-terran sentient (mental group) #3> Detect person engaging in subterfuge #4> Detect person with superpowers / Detect active use of superpowers What cellular does is to full one particular test against shapeshift (does the DNA match the new shape?). Depending on how superpowers work in your campaign #4 could be fooled by cellular; similarly you might rule that enough mental defense could foil #2 or #3. Invisible Power effects on the Shape Shift could foil any of the above... Ah, detect shapeshift! (*slaps forehead*) Why didn't I think of that? I still need a semi-scientific/technology reason why I can detect it. Do you think a remote DNA or retinal scan would be countered by the cellular level? Thats to everyone for the suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Brainwaves. *nods solemnly* Yep, that's the way to go. Brainwaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Help? Need power to counter shapeshift Depends (if you're new to the board, get used to that word ) -- how rubbery do you like your science? One "stretching the envelope" explanation could be that the shapeshift is based on "Description Theory", the idea that the universe is based on information and that the shapeshift operates by altering the data. In such a case you could say that your detect is effectively a "virus sniffer" that checks data against what it should be. It could also be as simple as saying that the "shapeshifted" cells become "radioactive", and the scanner detects the instability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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