Affects Solid World

[SuperBlue]

Okay, one of my players wants to build a mentalist that can turn into a ghost. She wants to be able to "possess" people.

 

I already know this would be bought as Mind Control, No Range, Only in Ghost form.

 

But seeing as how the power can ONLY be used when she's desolid, does she still have to pay the +2 for Affects Phsyical world? If so, then she only gets 3d of MindControl (AP Limitation). This is not nearly powerful enough to be effective.

 

So... do I allow this power to breach the AP limit, do I forgo the +2 Affects Physical World, or do I keep both the +2 and the AP limit and let her only have 3d or Mind Control for Possession?

 

EDIT: The game has a 50 AP Limit

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Yes, if she is Desolid, she needs APW.

 

In all fairness, that is a potentially huge power.

 

This power is covered in the USPDB on page 151; "Bodyjacking"

[devlin1]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Not disagreeing with you, but this seems odd to me. Aren't Desolids normally still affected by mental and BOECV powers? If so, shouldn't they, by default, be able to use mental/BOECV powers themselves while Desolid?

[SuperBlue]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Yes, if she is Desolid, she needs APW.

 

In all fairness, that is a potentially huge power.

 

This power is covered in the USPDB on page 151; "Bodyjacking"

 

You are assuming I have the USPD

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

You are assuming I have the USPD

No I'm not, but I cant post the power write up either without infringing on DoJ's IP.

 

So, my recommendation would be to write the page down and do a little page surfing the next time you are at the game store.

 

 

There is also a character with this power construct in the PSI organization, but I cant recall which book he is in off hand.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Not disagreeing with you' date=' but this seems odd to me. Aren't Desolids normally still affected by mental and BOECV powers? If so, shouldn't they, by default, be able to use mental/BOECV powers themselves while Desolid?[/quote']

Thats the way it is by the book. Presumably Desolid Mentalists would be way too powerful otherwise.

[zebediah]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

OK, this is cheating, but instead of buying desolid, why not pick up

 

Extradimentional Movement, 1 location in a single dimention. 20 points.

 

Takes the character to an empty dimention which has a 1:1 location correspoindance with this dimention, but which is entirely empty--or inhabitied only by ghosts and other psychic, noncorporial things. The character can only move between two corresponding points of the real world and this extradimentional plane, which we can call the Astral Plane for simplicity.

 

Buy Clairsentience for the sight group, the hearing group, and the mental group. That's a base cost of 40 points. Apply the advantage Trandimentional (to the real world only) for +1/2. That takes it up to 60 points, which exceeds your cap a bit, but could be broken into a number of clairsentiences of 45 AP for two senses if you'd like that better.

 

Apply to the Clairsentience "No Range (-1/2)," "Only usable when in Astral Plane (-1/2)," and "Clairsentience point is vulnerable to BOECV, Flashes, and a single tight special effect (-1)." That last one is based, roughly, on the limitation on clairsentience in the Mystic Masters Astral Form build. This takes the total down to either 20 or 30 points for the clairsentience...and the 30 points is if you want to be able to smell while desolid.

 

Now buy your Mind Control extradimentional (only to the real world), a +1/2 advantage rather than a +2 advantage. And with extradimentional clinging, you can have possession pretty easily.

 

Sure, it now costs you 6 END per turn instead of 4 to "remain desolid," but you also have the option to go blind and invisible as a 0-phaze action...or room to take another disadvantage on their clairsentience saying that it must be on all the time you're in the Astral Plane. It also points towards some other interesting constructs, like an "astral capture" that lets you drag other people, body and soul, into the Astral Plane.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Try Cumulative, then you can have 2d6 Cumulative, which can control someone to virtually any level, though it will take multiple applications of the power. If the target has 10 EGO and you need an EGO+50 effect, it will take you about nine phases to accomplish it. Targets with Mental DEF are going to be significantly harder though. The same target with 5 MD will take around 30 phases (well, less than that actually). And then of course there's the target's breakout rolls, so it is difficult, but it can be done.

[Agemegos]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Not disagreeing with you' date=' but this seems odd to me. Aren't Desolids normally still affected by mental and BOECV powers? If so, shouldn't they, by default, be able to use mental/BOECV powers themselves while Desolid?[/quote']

 

That's logical. But it's a balance thing, not a logic thing. Characters who can affect solids while desolid are potent foes and therefore cost a lot of points even if their special effects are 'tight'.

[DrFurious]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Putting aside all the (good) game-balance reasons to have ARW on other powers when you're desolid; is requiring this advantage breaking a design principle in Hero? Maybe not an existing design principle but one what arguably should be in Hero?

 

Should buying a power intrinsically affect the usability or cost of other powers?

 

With ARW and Desolid as an example, you could argue that a player who purchases a large amount of defenses (making him basically immune to most attacks) should be required to pay more for attack powers. Conversely, you could argue that your other powers should qualify for a limitation "not when desolid" (a variant of "not when using power X").

 

Desolid is already a stop power and the ARW requirement basically means that you need to spnd more points. Does this mean that Desolid is under-costed?

 

Comments? Flames?

[TheEmerged]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Just here to chime in that I allowed a desolid character to use mental powers without requiring ARW once. It was obvious after two sessions it was busted to heck and back.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Putting aside all the (good) game-balance reasons to have ARW on other powers when you're desolid; is requiring this advantage breaking a design principle in Hero? Maybe not an existing design principle but one what arguably should be in Hero?

 

Should buying a power intrinsically affect the usability or cost of other powers?

 

With ARW and Desolid as an example, you could argue that a player who purchases a large amount of defenses (making him basically immune to most attacks) should be required to pay more for attack powers. Conversely, you could argue that your other powers should qualify for a limitation "not when desolid" (a variant of "not when using power X").

 

Desolid is already a stop power and the ARW requirement basically means that you need to spnd more points. Does this mean that Desolid is under-costed?

 

Comments? Flames?

If you buy enough defenses to be completely immune to almost everything, including KB, and tally the cost youll see that its not cheap either.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

If you buy enough defenses to be completely immune to almost everything' date=' including KB, and tally the cost youll see that its not cheap either.[/quote']

Not only not cheep, but gawd awful expensive! Assume a game with a cap of 12 DC, it's possible to rull up to 24 BODY and 120 STUN (with KAs). To make yourself completely immune to damage would require defenses that high, plus xN Hardened with lots of Lack of Weakness and Knockback Resistance. Then you'd also need to buy up Power Defense and make sure you have all the Powers that provide defenses against all possible NNDs of the campaign.

 

Having done this, you'll be completely invulnerable (and without a SFX to still hurt you) except to Mental and Flash Attacks and be able to use all of your own attacks at full Power. You can't walk through walls though.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

On the actual subject, on creative method I saw for possession was an EDM to the Mindscape Dimensions. There is a Mindscape for each and every living, thinking being in existance. Being in one gives you access to that particular person's mind and body, but you still have to use other Powers to sense or manipulate anything. As a campaign rule, you can only slip into Mindscapes of people you can see (rather, sense with a targeting sense).

 

The advantage of this method is that you don't have to worry about paying extra for your Mind Control Powers. Nor do you have to worry about people attacking your "physical" body.

 

To balance it and make it playable: While in a Mindscape, you can be targeted with any Mental Powers and any attack that would affect the body's senses. In addition, the Mindscape can fight back, and may do so without conscious effort of the person it belongs to. If that person has Mental Powers, they may be used freely against the invader at no END cost. If not, the Mindscape's EGO can assault the invader, doing 1d6 per 5 points (and versus Mental Defense, as an Ego Attack).

[Metaphysician]

Re: Affects Solid World

 

Bodyjacker is actually built without this, but his Mind Control and Desolid are both Linked to each other, and with other appropriate limits.