The Mystic World

[BishopofB&W]

Re: The Mystic World

 

I liked the nice, vague treatment Glen A. Larson gave God and Heaven in an episode of Battlestar Galactica. Apollo gets sent on a “mission from God†to do something I can’t remember. Apollo disappears from a routine patrol and finds himself in an immmense white room, wearing an all-white version of his uniform, and facing about a dozen glowing white beings. Part of the dialogue goes something like:

Apollo: Are you angels?

Being: That’s close enough.

Apollo: Why is the Evil One allowed to spread fear and misery?

Being: We can’t interfere with free will. Not yours. Not his.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The Mystic World

 

There was an amusing book series collected into an Omnibus called "Ten Points for Style" that I read a few years ago. It was an amusing tale of a future in which the main character is a professional celebrity thief. His exploits were televised for the entertainment of the masses. Anyway, among other humorous bits, in the future we had been conquered by some alien race and they abolished all religion and replaced it with the Church of Elvis. Graceland was a literal mecca.

 

 

Worth a light read....

[Teflon Billy]

Re: The Mystic World

 

Although I didn't find the world view of TMW to be offensive, I do dislike it immensly, I had hoped that it was going to change from TUSM but it didn't.

 

I find the terminology is unnessesarily obscure by choice(it uses kabbalistic terminology) and it too closely bolts a single dimensional world view to the Champions Universe.

 

The first is a stylistic choice that I find was just not needed. I think it would have been better to have used the more common and understood Hermetic/Latinate terms that are part of the vernacular language, with the Kabala terms listed as alternatives if the author insisted. It would have made the material much more accessible to me, I'm going to have to reread the book again just to try and get my mind around it, this is after reading TUSM as well.

 

On the second issue, while I enjoyed some of the dimensions (Babylon in paricular), I find the rest uninspiring. Maybe it's my coming from a 2nd Ed AD&D background and their Great Wheel Cosmology, I just find it easier to deal with. The Ctthuluesque horrors are literally beyond the edge of the Multiverse, not part of it like the Kings of Edom are in the Champions Multiverse. But again, these are stylistic choices.

 

It all comes down to my basic gripe, that the Cosmology of the TMW is too individual, it smacks of being lifted directly from someones table top game and own personal house rules instead of being generalized to suit an open and adaptable game Universe for all GMs styles.

 

But this is just my opinion, I could be wrong. I had these same complaints when I bought the e-book TUSM and when I read the playtest of TMW, I still bought the book after all was said and done, and I'll be buying AA as well.

 

TB

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The Mystic World

 

Although I didn't find the world view of TMW to be offensive, I do dislike it immensly, I had hoped that it was going to change from TUSM but it didn't.

 

I find the terminology is unnessesarily obscure by choice(it uses kabbalistic terminology) and it too closely bolts a single dimensional world view to the Champions Universe.

 

The first is a stylistic choice that I find was just not needed. I think it would have been better to have used the more common and understood Hermetic/Latinate terms that are part of the vernacular language, with the Kabala terms listed as alternatives if the author insisted. It would have made the material much more accessible to me, I'm going to have to reread the book again just to try and get my mind around it, this is after reading TUSM as well.

 

On the second issue, while I enjoyed some of the dimensions (Babylon in paricular), I find the rest uninspiring. Maybe it's my coming from a 2nd Ed AD&D background and their Great Wheel Cosmology, I just find it easier to deal with. The Ctthuluesque horrors are literally beyond the edge of the Multiverse, not part of it like the Kings of Edom are in the Champions Multiverse. But again, these are stylistic choices.

 

It all comes down to my basic gripe, that the Cosmology of the TMW is too individual, it smacks of being lifted directly from someones table top game and own personal house rules instead of being generalized to suit an open and adaptable game Universe for all GMs styles.

 

TB

Sounds like we are pretty much of the same mind on this one.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: The Mystic World

 

Just got it, love it aside from a few quibbles here and there. The big three in the back are cool, but now they've got me champing at the bit for Arcane Adversaries when it gets out. Satanists and qlippoth and werewolves -- oh my! Really did like the quotes from various real-world occult tomes. (But where did Mister Shomshak get a copy of the Chaldean Oracles for a quote, as listed on pg. 9? Isn't that book supposed to be completely lost?)

 

I also really do like the idea that the Dragon is the inspiration behind VIPER and COIL/King Cobra. I'd been thinking of something involving ol' KC and COIL making their own dragon -- now I know where the idea came from. Its collected cults are great as well, especially the Gnostic group. I've wondered why they never showed up as villains in a mystic/occult sourcebook before. Kudos to whoever did the research for TMW.

 

I also enjoyed seeing some old character come back in the mentions, like Charles Torres (will his mistress, Lady Midnight, be showing up in AA?) and others.

 

Like the section on the gods too, but why is Leech shown there (and later with the section on banishing outer worldly monsters)? Sure looks like him, anyway.

 

The other dimensions were cool, and I'm thrilled to see that /someone/ remembers Big Rock Candy Mountain (must be right next door to Fiddler's Green and Davy Jones' Locker).

 

If you keep this level of quality up, I'll be buying your books for a long time to come.

[JJR]

Re: The Mystic World

 

I also really do like the idea that the Dragon is the inspiration behind VIPER and COIL/King Cobra. I'd been thinking of something involving ol' KC and COIL making their own dragon -- now I know where the idea came from.

The dragon behind VIPER and COIL is really Nama. Just many speculate "the" dragon is the source.

[JJR]

Re: The Mystic World

 

Like the section on the gods too' date=' but why is Leech shown there (and later with the section on banishing outer worldly monsters)? Sure looks like him, anyway. [/quote']

I believe those are just some leech-like demons. Not the villain Leech from ckc.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: The Mystic World

 

True, and the Dragon sounds like one of the things that Nama is trying to defend himself from. But I would still love to do a story where the heroes learn of a Dragon cult within VIPER & wind up teaming up with other VIPER agents and villains, such as VIPER-X, to save the world.

 

And the Dragon's Ophites sound an awful lot like the Draysha and various COIL victims...

 

Just had a thought -- concerning the post elsewhere about why some American corporation has been tearing up the ruins of Babylon, searching for something? Well, now we know why -- Saddam was one of the Sons of Kingu (he called himself the reincarnation of Babylonian god-kings, after all!) and PRIMUS or UNTIL is looking for the hidden Tablets of Destiny.

 

Can you tell I really do love this book?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: The Mystic World

 

I also really do like the idea that the Dragon is the inspiration behind VIPER and COIL/King Cobra. I'd been thinking of something involving ol' KC and COIL making their own dragon -- now I know where the idea came from. Its collected cults are great as well' date=' especially the Gnostic group. I've wondered why they never showed up as villains in a mystic/occult sourcebook before. Kudos to whoever did the research for TMW.[/quote']

 

FenrisUlf, if you like the Gnostic "Ouroboros" cult (I'm really fond of them as well), you might want to check out Digital Hero #4, which details the cult's "supervillain team," the Chosen of Abraxas. Here's a sample featuring one member, Lady Medusa.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: The Mystic World

 

Thanks, Lord Liaden. Now I just need the cash for DH (I'm also intrigued by their entry on the legendary Reynard). But again, I think Gnostics make for really grand mystic villains. And I'm not the only one -- how many poeple know that the Cathars/gnosticism was closely studied within Himmler's SS?

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Mystic World

 

Well, there is no question the Dragon has influence in VIPER. After all, its a giant organization of evil people.

 

However, I'd favor an interpretation wherein Nama is an independent force, and VIPER is not ultimately a "front" for the Dragon. OTOH, King Cobra and COIL could well be a plot by the Dragon to weaken VIPER.

 

In my mind, VIPER is founded by Nama to protect him from major rising occult threats to his own well-being, most of which trace back to DEMON. Now, if Nama doesn't want Sharna Gorak or the Kings of Edom rampaging over his world, I doubt he wants the Dragon to take over, either. OTOH, it seems to me that the Dragon is, in that sense, a much lesser, and less immediate, threat than the stuff DEMON is doing. Thus, while Nama's creation and support of VIPER might pop a couple links in the chain, it wouldn't do irreparable damage. After all, Nama could always turn "oracle to heroes" later on and pair back VIPER if necessary.

 

Which links into my other reason for keeping Nama an independent force: I really like the idea of Nama, in the 30th century, switching rolls back the same afforementioned trickster god schtick: providing advice and aid to heroes who prove their worthiness by passing whatever tests needed to reach him. After all, its established that Nama finds heroes fascinating. VIPER 3K can then be put down to what it looks to me to be: a toy and learning aid for Viperia, and little else.