Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

[nexus]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

I'm really starting to wonder. Is every thread I start from now on going to involve a debate about "realism" in comics and Champions where somehow The Authority gets mentioned?

[Enforcer84]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

I'm really starting to wonder. Is every thread I start from now on going to involve a debate about "realism" in comics and Champions where somehow The Authority gets mentioned?

It's one of the new Comic Codes...

[Wanderer]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

I'm really starting to wonder. Is every thread I start from now on going to involve a debate about "realism" in comics and Champions where somehow The Authority gets mentioned?

 

It is the new zeitgeist. Times they are a-changing, this is the end of the Comic Code, my friend, a hard rain is gonna fall on Silver Age, and all that

[nexus]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

It is the new zeitgeist. Times they are a-changing' date=' this is the end of the Comic Code, my friend, a hard rain is gonna fall on Silver Age, and all that [/quote']

 

Uh. Yeah right. Whateva.

[proditor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

It is the new zeitgeist. Times they are a-changing' date=' this is the end of the Comic Code, my friend, a hard rain is gonna fall on Silver Age, and all that [/quote']

God I hope not, I'm still annoyed that I got taken in by all the hype and bought the first TPB. Man I hated that book....

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

I wasn't really looking for advice with this thread.

 

You wanted us to mention problems without making an attempt to find a solution?

 

Sorry, but I'm not wired that way.

[Evil Toki]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

You wanted us to mention problems without making an attempt to find a solution?

 

Sorry, but I'm not wired that way.

I have to concur, I have a natural inclination to try and fix or present solutions to problems...

[nexus]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

You wanted us to mention problems without making an attempt to find a solution?

 

Sorry, but I'm not wired that way.

 

People were trying to offer advice. I told them they did not have too, it was not needed. I was just wondering what issues people had run into over the years and I had the audacity to not want my thread derailed by being turned into advice column. Please forgive me.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

There most certainly are killing attacks in comics. What do you call sais through the torso. I know sais aren't really sharpened. Bear with me.

 

What do you mean people aren't killed by normal attacks? Didn't a certain Boy Wonder get beat down with a crowbar? I know they blew him up later, but that was just overkill.

 

I think that the Champions mechanic of normal vs. killing is actually a great representation of the way damage works in comics. I can be a little frustrating in heroic games, but I actually like it. I agree that Combat Luck was a great addition.

 

I was always frustrated when I would play with people and they would refuse to split up and pursue seperate subplots. It is such a staple of comic wrtiting. I would play in games and they would always turn into lets-all-mob-together-until-we-get-all-the-villians-in-one-place-then-we'll-have-a-big-melee-to- see-who-wins. This is fun sometimes, but not always. I was perfectly willing to wait my turn while other peolpe got their time in the sun, and I was always annoyed by others who were not.

 

There really aren't that many true one-trick ponies in comics. Look at the Legion. You have people with one power, sometimes not even a power that has a combat application. However, they get flight rings and other gadgets, as well as martial arts training as part of package deal. Even Dream Girl (Dreamer) could physically fight a couple or three agents and do well. I say the same thing about Kitty Pryde. She started out with one power, but she picked up a lot of other things along the way through experience and training. Hell, look at Cyclops, for that matter. All the weapons masters have martial arts as a backup, too. Also remember that writers also use power stunts liberally to get certain characters over plot points. The new Power Skill or those seperate little multipowers are good representations of this, IMO.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

I was perfectly willing to wait my turn while other peolpe got their time in the sun' date=' and I was always annoyed by others who were not.[/quote']

 

I recall the time I spent three real-world hours doing nothing, while my character sat in a helicopter on its way to [X], while the GM finished up "just one brief thing" with one character.

 

Not fun.

 

"Let's take a helicopter ride" became a running joke for several weeks afterward.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

I just thought of one: Mass Combat. You know, when the Avengers wade through several thousand of Kang's flunkies, or when the Legion fights an entire planet of Supermen at once. Or more recently when the Authority slaughters an entire extra-dimensional army. I have never tried it, but it seems like it would bog right the hell down.

 

I once did a time-based villian thing, but I only had him have access to a representative sample of followers. A few Roman soldiers, not a full legion. A couple of velociraptors, not the entire population of Jurassic Park. We had five PCs , so it worked out. Who would want to try that with about ten or fifteen supers and a boatload of NPCs. Yikes.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

The real problem isn't with characters, its how poorly normal attacks do against inanimate objects and vehicles, anything that doesn't take stun.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

bblackmoor: I agree. Three hours is waaayy to long to wait. I can certainly see whay you would not want to do that, but I've known people who wouldn't wait fifteen to thirty minutes. I call that snack time, or bathroom break or call-the-girlfriend-so-she-doesn't-forget-my-name time. At least that's what I used it for.

 

It sounds like the GM, or the other PC, was being a little inconsiderate. I still think it can work in moderation. It does require a lot of running around, but remember comics spawned that whole meanwhile caption.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

The real problem isn't with characters' date=' its how poorly normal attacks do against inanimate objects and vehicles, anything that doesn't take stun.[/quote']

 

Most inanimate objects have resistant defense, so that applies to both normal attacks and killing attacks (killing attacks do virtually the same amount of Body as normal attacks of the same point value do -- that's why they cost the same).

 

On the other hand, a normal person with 10 Strength can kick a car apart in something like 30 seconds.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

It sounds like the GM or the other PC was being a little inconsiderate.[/Quote]

 

I think it was mainly inexperience. No harm done, and we got an amusing story out of it.

 

I still think it can work in moderation.

 

Oh, sure. You can swing just about anything, in moderation.

[IanSokoliwski]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

This isn't advice just another way of looking at things...

 

ooo, you folks are gonna hate this being mentioned, but here goes...

 

Okay, back in the day () I recall that the 'Marvel Super Heroes Game' (I knew you were going to hate it), on the subject of Body Armour, referred to the armour working NOT just by deflecting damage (like the Thing) but also by alternate ways around the damage, say by allowing the damage to pass through you without it actually doing anything (like the Man-Thing).

 

*ahem* Now, by this logic, a player could reasonably create, say, a martial artist character with resistand PD and ED, and say that, it doesn't actually reflect any armour he has, but his super-reflexes.

 

And, if the GM was willing, I'd say that this interpretation would be 'close enough for jazz'.

 

Heck, it even more-or-less explains Batman and Iron Fist dodging bullets left and right, even though (were they really Champions characters) they don't have enough points to actually make them that fast/agile.

 

Does it violate the spirit of the game? Well, maybe. It could be an abuse of the min/max theorem. But is it wrong?

 

That is between the PC and his/her Diety or Dieties (or GM) of choice

 

(by the by, unless someone gave me a really really compelling reason to allow this...say, like more pizza or something...I probably would disallow this. I'm just voicing an alternative, folks)

[Isaiah_26_4]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

Chello!

 

Bening saved by a mega-powerful NPC depends on the GM' date=' after all the players are the main stars. Most GMs wont do this idea, because the PCs are the heroes that need to shine and prove themselves. Too easy to depend on 'big daddy' to save their butts. No rolls for the mega=powerful NPC to save them, he just does.[/quote']

 

Agree totally. I do use a "Mega-Super" only in the first session or two when I've got a group of newbie players who are still learning the ropes of the Hero System. And they know that he's not going to be around forever!

 

Tony

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

Other things that work poorly in RPGs:

 

7. Teams of varying power levels

8. Depowering superheroes

9. Supertech (time machines, starships, etc)

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

Now' date=' by this logic, a player [i']could[/i] reasonably create, say, a martial artist character with resistand PD and ED, and say that, it doesn't actually reflect any armour he has, but his super-reflexes.

 

Of course. I have seen numerous characters with that power. It typically has a Limitation like "Must be aware of attack" or "skill roll required: Danger Sense". Nothing wrong with that.

[IanSokoliwski]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

Of course. I have seen numerous characters with that power. It typically has a Limitation like "Must be aware of attack" or "skill roll required: Danger Sense". Nothing wrong with that.

 

Yes, that's it exactly

 

Normally, when I see it put that particular way, it is also teamed with 'OAF Shield', but yes it works equally well with super-reflexes, and, for the most part I would allow a PC to have that

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

10. Whenever two superheroes meet for the first time, they fight. Tends to create bad feeling if they're PCs, in my experience.

[Evil Toki]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

10. Whenever two superheroes meet for the first time' date=' they fight. Tends to create bad feeling if they're PCs, in my experience.[/quote']

I concur this is very hard to pull off... though I have found splitting up the heroes is pretty easy in a Play by Post kind of game... but face to face is very hard!

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

10. Whenever two superheroes meet for the first time' date=' they fight. Tends to create bad feeling if they're PCs, in my experience.[/quote']

 

Really. We always had fun with that one. I think our GM was always careful not to let it get out of hand. I can't remeber getting really trashed by another player in one of those meeting scenarios. He would let it go on for just a few phases or so before distracting us. I remember other games where people wouldn't be interested in doing that part. They just wanted to get to the adventure.

 

That brings another one to mind, though: m ind controlled PCs fighting other PCs. Players hate to be manipulated, so mind control plots are hard to pull off.

[Evil Toki]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

Really. We always had fun with that one. I think our GM was always careful not to let it get out of hand. I can't remeber getting really trashed by another player in one of those meeting scenarios. He would let it go on for just a few phases or so before distracting us. I remember other games where people wouldn't be interested in doing that part. They just wanted to get to the adventure.

 

That brings another one to mind, though: m ind controlled PCs fighting other PCs. Players hate to be manipulated, so mind control plots are hard to pull off.

This is an issue I am facing right now... very sticky... especially when players get reluctant to beat the crap out of each other bcause they are mind controlled...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Things that work in comics but don't work in Champions

 

This is an issue I am facing right now... very sticky... especially when players get reluctant to beat the crap out of each other bcause they are mind controlled...

 

That's weird. I always got a kick out of that: being able to play a villain for a little bit. Everybody knows it's all in good fun. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it, as long as it's not being used to humiliate anyone (that could be crossing a line, depending on the circumstances).