Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

[RobCRogers]

I'm running a combat where a villain just can't manage to hit a (tiny) PC. So he's come up with the idea of attacking her with a fire extinguisher. My trouble is, I'm not sure how much damage he could do with the thing. Assume this is a high-end, all-purpose fire extinguisher (he stole it from the hero team's suped-up vehicle).

 

A. If he just bashes her with the thing, I don't see it causing any additional damage. Because it's bigger than his fists, I might give him a +1 OCV or something, but that's about it.

 

B. What if he sprays her with it? Would it be a Flash? An NND? What effect might it have (she's tiny enough that she'd be enveloped by the spray).

 

C. What if he just got into her hex and squeezed the thing until it exploded? What kind of damage might it do?

 

Thanks!

[Old Man]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

In addition to the Dispel/Suppress fire thing, it's a bit up to you as you're the GM.

 

Bashing with it will probably add a few dice to the damage. Fire Extinguishers are pretty heavy, even the standard ones are about 8lbs.

 

Spraying with it could either be a Flash and/or Darkness, 1 hex, limited range (about 3"). Unless it's a liquid extinguisher which has much better range but no area effect.

 

I can't see it doing much more than 3-5d6 N Explosion as a bomb.

[TechnoViking]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

It would hve to be an older fire extinguisher. Most fire extinguishers made in the last decade will not explode.

 

Also it would have to be heat or presssure to make the fire extinguisher. It is a Hollywood myth that one can explode by shooting it.

[RobCRogers]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

It would hve to be an older fire extinguisher. Most fire extinguishers made in the last decade will not explode.

 

Also it would have to be heat or presssure to make the fire extinguisher. It is a Hollywood myth that one can explode by shooting it.

That's what I get for playing too much Duke Nuke'Em in my younger days...

[Nightfly]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Just a thought, but a small character might take some cold damage from a fire extinguisher.

[Zed-F]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Well, before you dismiss the attack out of hand, I would consider giving it a small wind-based TK or something, so long as it does KB. It's very comic book to hit a shrunken character with some weak AE attack and send them flying out of the immediate area.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

If it's a Halon® extinguisher, she might take a brief NND:Life Support-breathing attack. Maybe the equivalent of a choke hold.

 

Keith "Fireman" Curtis

[Toadmaster]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Ok, something I have a little experience with.

 

You have a couple of types of extinguisher

 

Dry chemical (grease fires) and multi purpose dry chemical (grease fires and "ordinary" fires - wood, paper etc)

 

These are pressurized and have a powder agent related to baking soda. They are not under high pressure (100 psi or so) and do not come out with a great deal of force. They have a range of 5-10 feet and really won't do much besides irritate the eyes and make breathing difficult (very dusty), I suppose you could use change environment -1 or -2 based on the dust cloud. Hitting someone with it would hurt since they range in weight from 5-40+ lbs although there are some weighing 150-200 lbs on a wheeled cart, you sometimes see these at small airports or in industrial plants. If you broke off the head or shot one it would "explode" but not like Duke Nuke'em, most likely it would just spew out the agent like normal just a little faster, possibly rocket around a bit if it wasn't fastend to the wall but most likely you'll just get a big dust cloud and a loud noise.

 

Dry Powder

These are similar to Dry chemcal but use special chemicals for burning metal. Otherwise probably about the same effect as above (unless you are using it against Flamming Magnesium Man in which case it might be very useful)

 

CO2 (Carbon Dioxide)

These could have a little more effect, the CO2 is very cold when it comes out, you can actually freeze water with one of these which is why they have the plastic cone on the end to prevent the user from touching the nozzle as it is used. It will also displace oxygen (that is the main reason it extinguishers fires) so you could make it an NND suffocation if the target is caught in the cloud. Range is again about 10 feet. I would suspect breaking of the neck or shooting one of these would be like rupturing a scuba tank, they are at least 1000 psi, I've seen pictures of a fire engine that had an air pack fail and it blew the side of the truck off (imagine taking 45 cubic feet of air and releasing it instantly inside a closed space), a larger CO2 extinguisher would probably be similar. Again these are fairly heavy so hitting someone with it would hurt.

 

Halon

This is a weird chemical, they take a flammable molecule (methane IIRC) and combine it with corrisive molecules (bromine, chlorine and florine are the most common) and they get a "non toxic" fire extinguishing agent. Unfortunately it also loves ozone so its on the way out. About the only thing halon will do is displace the oxygen like CO2, however if it hits a heat source (fire) it breaks up releasing the corrosive molecules which block the fires chemical reaction putting out the fire, unfortunately it also leaves a rather toxic gas behind. A GM could have some fun with this against a fire character. Not too common in extinguishers, its generally found in fixed systems protecting electronics and computers, or in vehicle fire extinguishing systems (aircraft, tanks, race cars). Fairly low pressure so little explosion potential.

 

Water

The ever popular water can, these hold 2 1/2 gallons of water and are basically a big super soaker. Not really going to hurt someone unless a garden hose also could. Range 20-30 feet. These are the tall chrome silver extingushers you often see. Generally about 20 lbs and pressurized to about 100 psi, if you shot a hole in one water would squirt out but thats about it, I suppose it might travel a couple (2 or 3) feet from the pressure.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Here's some more info on the things:

 

They are split into 5 classifications:

A - wood fires, paper fires, etc..

B - used for flammable liquids (gasoline, kerosene)

C - for powered electrical equipment (appliances, etc)

D - involve combusitble metals (magnesium, titanium) and "organomettalics" .. things that react badly with water or air when on fire.

K - Kitchen Fires, home use basically.

 

Extinguishers are rated by which letters they cover.

 

Water Extinguishers are Class A only. not good for much.

 

Dry Chemical Extinguishers:

"Dry chemical extinguishers are useful for class ABC fires and are your best all around choice. They have an advantage over CO2 extinguishers in that they leave a blanket of non-flammable material on the extinguished material which reduces the likelihood of reignition. They also make a terrible mess -- but if the choice is a fire or a mess, take the mess! Note that there are two kinds of dry chemical extinguishers!

-Type BC fire extinguishers contain sodium or potassium bicarbonate.

-Type ABC fire extinguishers contain ammonium phosphate."

 

CO2:

"CO2 (carbon dioxide) extinguishers are for class B and C fires. They don't work very well on class A fires because the material usually reignites. CO2 extinguishers have an advantage over dry chemical in that they leave behind no harmful residue. That makes carbon dioxide (or Halotron I; see below) a good choice for an electrical fire involving a computer or other delicate instrument. Note that CO2 is a bad choice for a flammable metal fires such as Grignard reagents, alkyllithiums and sodium metal because CO2 reacts with these materials. CO2 extinguishers are not approved for class D fires!"

 

For Class D:

Metal/Sand Extinguishers are for flammable metals (class D fires) and work by simply smothering the fire. The most common extinguishing agent in this class is sodium chloride, but there are a variety of other options. You should have an approved class D unit if you are working with flammable metals.

 

"Halon" was actualy outlawed in 1994 by international agreement and isn't found anymore. It has been replaced with one of two chemicals:

-Halotron I extinguishers, like carbon dioxide units, are for use on class B and C fires. Halotron I is an ozone-friendly replacement for Halon 1211 (which was banned by international agreements starting in 1994). This "clean agent" discharges as a liquid, has high visibility during dischage, does not cause thermal or static shock, leaves no residue and is non-conducting. These properties make it ideal for computer rooms, clean rooms, telecommunications equipment, and electronics. The superior properties of Halotron come at a higher cost relative to carbon dioxide.

 

-FE-36TM (Hydrofluorocarbon-236fa or HFC-236fa) is a DuPont-manufactured Halon 1211 replacement that is available commercially in Cleanguard® extinguishers. The FE-36 agent is less toxic than both Halon 1211 and Halotron I. In addition, FE-36 has zero ozone-depleting potential; FE-36 is not scheduled for phase-out wheras Halotron I production is slated to cease in 2015. A 100% non-magnetic CleanGuard model is now available (see the warning box below).

 

--

the point behind all this is, depending on what kind of extinguisher is picked up the character in question may become wet, blown away, covered in a chemical of some nature or simply smothered under debris.

 

more complete info can be found at: http://www.ilpi.com/safety/extinguishers.html

 

which is where I quoted most of the above.

 

As for explosion damage .. I have no idea, didn't look up the various pressures that the many types of extinguishers are kept under.

[Sociotard]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Also it would have to be heat or presssure to make the fire extinguisher. It is a Hollywood myth that one can explode by shooting it.

Exactly. And Hero simulates Film/Television/comic book reality, not our reality. It's genre. Let it explode if you shoot it.

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Is this a normal or heroic level or a superhero level game?

[RobCRogers]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Is this a normal or heroic level or a superhero level game?

Superhero level. A brick can't hit a shrinker, so he's trying to create a little explosion to hurt her by squeezing the fire extinguisher until it pops, even though he'll take the damage, too.

 

I'm inclined to lean less toward realism and more toward drama here (especially since the extinguisher was developed by the local brilliant scientist, so it's a "super" extinguisher). But I don't want to screw over the shrinker's player...

[Nightfly]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Even though I'm only a casual visitor concerning this thread, I want to sincerely thank Toadmaster & ghost-angel for sharing so many detailed & informative facts!! Thanks!!

[RobCRogers]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Even though I'm only a casual visitor concerning this thread' date=' I want to sincerely thank Toadmaster & ghost-angel for sharing so many detailed & informative facts!! Thanks!! [/quote']

Yes, I posted quickly without taking the time to thank everyone who has responded. I really do appreciate the feedback. Thanks very much for your time, everyone.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

Not a problem, resources should be shared for the collective minds of all.

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Fire Extinguisher Go Boom

 

I think the best use of the fire extinguisher would be to discharge it into the targets eyes which should not be too hard seeing that they are so small. I would call it a NND Flash attack, One Hex Accurate against Tiny targets. This way you get a number of charges instead of an "All-Or-Nothing Attack".

 

 

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