Metaphysician Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? True....but then Doom did go after the Infinity Gauntlet and the Cosmic Cube at times; as well as the Silver Surfer's power cosmic, the Beyonder's power, and augmented magical power. In the end, Destroyer is probably a combo of Doom & Thanos. He has Doom's power set and motives (sans the redeemable stuff) with Thanos' power levels. Or...Destroyer is Doom with much more power and less morals. He. Does. Not. Have. Thanos'. Power. Level. Thanos. Considers. A Megaton Range Nuke. To Be Something. You Use. To Clear Away the Riff Raff. By Dropping it At Your Feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? He. Does. Not. Have. Thanos'. Power. Level. Thanos. Considers. A Megaton Range Nuke. To Be Something. You Use. To Clear Away the Riff Raff. By Dropping it At Your Feet. I think we all have different ideas as to what constitutes powerful, with yours being slightly higher than mine. In our Legacy Universe we have Thor, iirc, doing around 25d6 with mjolnir and 29d6 with a haymakert. Having Dr. Destroyer doing 30d6 to 34d6 puts him somewhere between Thor and Darkseid (12d6 RKA) in our game world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? He. Does. Not. Have. Thanos'. Power. Level. Thanos. Considers. A Megaton Range Nuke. To Be Something. You Use. To Clear Away the Riff Raff. By Dropping it At Your Feet. i would help...before the obviously intended attitude...if you *read* my posts and responded to what. i. wrote. Let's recap. (1) I said "Destroyer is probably a combo of Doom & Thanos. He has Doom's power set and motives (sans the redeemable stuff) with Thanos' power levels. Or...Destroyer is Doom with much more power and less morals." This means I AGREE that Doom lacks Thanos' power level. But (2) for the record....Doom would *happily* use a nuke to clear away riff raff if that was part of his plan. Reference Secret War #11 when Doom killed 40 +/- heroes with a bolt from the blue just because he could. Thank you for the insult and commentary to something other than my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I think we all have different ideas as to what constitutes powerful' date=' with yours being slightly higher than mine. In our Legacy Universe we have Thor, iirc, doing around 25d6 with mjolnir and 29d6 with a haymakert. Having Dr. Destroyer doing 30d6 to 34d6 puts him somewhere between Thor and Darkseid (12d6 RKA) in our game world.[/quote'] Then your game world has failed to accurately emulate the characters in question. It boils down to this simple fact: in his earliest appearances, Thanos was capable of cracking apart planets. Dr Destroyer. . . is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Then your game world has failed to accurately emulate the characters in question. It boils down to this simple fact: in his earliest appearances, Thanos was capable of cracking apart planets. Dr Destroyer. . . is not. Sure he is. You can crack apart planets for 5 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? i would help...before the obviously intended attitude...if you *read* my posts and responded to what. i. wrote. Let's recap. (1) I said "Destroyer is probably a combo of Doom & Thanos. He has Doom's power set and motives (sans the redeemable stuff) with Thanos' power levels. Or...Destroyer is Doom with much more power and less morals." This means I AGREE that Doom lacks Thanos' power level. "with Thanos' power levels." Either you mistated originally, or changed your opinion. Pick one. But (2) for the record....Doom would *happily* use a nuke to clear away riff raff if that was part of his plan. Reference Secret War #11 when Doom killed 40 +/- heroes with a bolt from the blue just because he could. You misunderstand what I say. I say that Thanos considers a nuke something to drop at his *own* feet to clear out riff-raff. Neither Doom or Destroyer can casually set off a nuke at point blank without fear of any harm. Thank you for the insult and commentary to something other than my post. Your welcome. Now, try rereading what *I* said more carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I say that Thanos considers a nuke something to drop at his *own* feet to clear out riff-raff. Neither Doom or Destroyer can casually set off a nuke at point blank without fear of any harm. Invulnerability to a Nuke can be had for 40 active points. No problem. Destroyer is looking tougher all the time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? "with Thanos' power levels." Either you mistated originally, or changed your opinion. Pick one. You misunderstand what I say. I say that Thanos considers a nuke something to drop at his *own* feet to clear out riff-raff. Neither Doom or Destroyer can casually set off a nuke at point blank without fear of any harm. Your welcome. Now, try rereading what *I* said more carefully. Actually, I could see Doom dropping a nuke at his own feet. And afterwards we'd find that it was a robot doppelganger, or he boosted his defenses magically, or kept himself safe with a special device he built. Doom or Destroyer sans any special precautions can't casually drop a nuke. But both sport huge VPP gadgeteering pools and are always with some extra boost to their abilities. BTW, Destroyer did perform the equivalent of nuking himself in Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Then your game world has failed to accurately emulate the characters in question. It boils down to this simple fact: in his earliest appearances, Thanos was capable of cracking apart planets. Dr Destroyer. . . is not. I always enjoy when a poster tells me I'm wrong just because I don't do something the same why the poster does. Our power levels have worked fine for us for 22 years. Obviously yours work fine for you too. Why don't we just leave it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Invulnerability to a Nuke can be had for 40 active points. No problem. Per Digital Hero, Nukes have Affects Desolidified... ...but then, DD has LS: High Radiation. Does the EMP knock out his LS? Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? "with Thanos' power levels." Either you mistated originally, or changed your opinion. Pick one. You misunderstand what I say. I think the big lack of reading comprehension falls at your feet in this case. SleepyDrug pretty clearly said that Destroyer -- not Doom -- had Thanos's power level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Per Digital Hero, Nukes have Affects Desolidified... ...but then, DD has LS: High Radiation. Does the EMP knock out his LS? Hmmm. We've already has this discussion, IIRC. IMO, nothing should have a blanket "Affects Desolidified" because of the wildly different SFX for the power. There's no reason to think that a nuclear weapon would harm a spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? There's no reason to think that a nuclear weapon would harm a spirit. Spirits that are assumed to be immune to radiation should have the appropriate LS. Ones that aren't, shouldn't. Thus the Affects Desolidified question re: nuking ghosts is moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Effects first, then mechanics. Unless you're arguing from Werewolf's doofy cosmology, there's nothing about a nuclear weapon that should have any effect on supernaturally incorporeal creatures. The radiation passes through harmlessly for the same reason a hand or a bullet would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Effects first, then mechanics. Unless you're arguing from Werewolf's doofy cosmology, there's nothing about a nuclear weapon that should have any effect on supernaturally incorporeal creatures. The radiation passes through harmlessly for the same reason a hand or a bullet would. Then, as I said, have all spirits buy total life support, which you'd logically want to buy for them anyway, wouldn't you?. The only part of a nuke that Affects Desolid is the radiation, and that's bought as an NND. Problem solved. This is a silly argument anyway. To my knowledge the effects of comic-book radiation on ghosts have not yet been throroughly researched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? That is only because the only heroes we ever get to see are ridiculously weak for world class superheroing. If all you had to throw at him were 350ers and the occasional inefficiently built 500-600er, Dr Doom would require mass hoards of all the worlds heroes to beat, too. Which is why he *isn't* faced with the hoard of wimps; he's faced with the Fantastic Four. Completely aside from this, any comparison with Thanos breeds thoughts that Dr Destroyer is as powerful as Thanos. He is not, never has been, and never will be. As for "never will be"... given the Editions Inflating, I give him till 6th Edition, 7th Edition at the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I think the big lack of reading comprehension falls at your feet in this case. SleepyDrug pretty clearly said that Destroyer -- not Doom -- had Thanos's power level.Actually, yours and SleepyDrug's reading comprehension is what rolled an 18 in this case. Metaphysician is saying that neither Doctor Destroyer nor Doom have Thanos' power level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? As for "never will be"... given the Editions Inflating' date=' I give him till 6th Edition, 7th Edition at the latest.[/quote'] When you look at the power levels of the Champions Universe "Thanos-type" characters such as "The Dragon Incarnate" you see a villain with 24d6 attack in a vpp, 6 speed, 30 defense, 110 stun you see a very tough character. The Dragon Bound has more attack but less speed and no defense. Compare that to Dr. Destroyer with his 30d6, 8 speed, 40 defense, damage reduction, and 100 stun. Which one is the real "Thanos-type" threat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Per Digital Hero, Nukes have Affects Desolidified... ...but then, DD has LS: High Radiation. Does the EMP knock out his LS? Hmmm. Triggered Extra Dimensional Movement is cheap as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? This is a silly argument anyway. To my knowledge the effects of comic-book radiation on ghosts have not yet been throroughly researched. So you're not reading the Incorporeal Hulk maxi-series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? only oen comic book universe i know of has a definitive answer on spirits and nukes and thats wildstorm which states catagorically that the soul is an electromagnetic wave that is totally disrupted by nukes[leading to peopel strapping them selves to them to avoid the afterlife] not that its much help overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I think the big question is should nuclear radiation be bouught with an Affects Desolid, Any Kind of Desolid advantage in the first place. My instinct is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Invulnerability to a Nuke can be had for 40 active points. No problem. Destroyer is looking tougher all the time ... *sigh* No, he does *not* have the Desolid cheese, because he's equally invulnerable to everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Actually, I could see Doom dropping a nuke at his own feet. And afterwards we'd find that it was a robot doppelganger, or he boosted his defenses magically, or kept himself safe with a special device he built. Doom or Destroyer sans any special precautions can't casually drop a nuke. But both sport huge VPP gadgeteering pools and are always with some extra boost to their abilities. BTW, Destroyer did perform the equivalent of nuking himself in Detroit. And it was an apparent suicide move, that required special preparations for him to pull off. *Thanos doesn't need any special preparations, because the nuke just plain can't hurt him.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I always enjoy when a poster tells me I'm wrong just because I don't do something the same why the poster does. Our power levels have worked fine for us for 22 years. Obviously yours work fine for you too. Why don't we just leave it like that. Because one power level is inaccurate. If you wanna say "Dr Destroyer is the biggest villain in my setting," then thats perfectly accurate and fine. When you say "Dr Destroyer fills the Thanos role in my setting," you are setting up a comparison that can be factually tested. . . and disproven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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