phydaux Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Is it just me, or are there "more than a few" similarities between the official Champions universe and the Marvel universe? These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head: Dr. Destoryer = Dr Doom Mechanon = Ultron Fabulous Five = Fantastic Four Instute for Human Advancement = generic Marvel anti-mutant crap Minutemen = Sentinels Grond = The Hulk Ravenswood Academy = Xavier's School (although more like one of the Saturday mourning cartoons than the comic) In fact, I think the only homage the Champs uni has to DC at all is the Harbringer of Justice (better known as Batman) and he only occures in Dark Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnicau Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Is it just me, or are there "more than a few" similarities between the official Champions universe and the Marvel universe? These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head: Dr. Destoryer = Dr Doom Mechanon = Ultron Fabulous Five = Fantastic Four Instute for Human Advancement = generic Marvel anti-mutant crap Minutemen = Sentinels Grond = The Hulk Ravenswood Academy = Xavier's School (although more like one of the Saturday mourning cartoons than the comic) In fact, I think the only homage the Champs uni has to DC at all is the Harbringer of Justice (better known as Batman) and he only occures in Dark Champions. add in UNTIL-Shield VIPER-Hydra/AIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Well, given that Marvel was one of the main inventors of the genre a little derivation is to be expected. Let's not get the nice people at Hero sued, eh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted October 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Well' date=' given that Marvel was one of the main inventors of the genre a little derivation is to be expected. [/quote'] And I'm primarily a Marvel fan. But don't you think there should be just a little DC influence? The only thing in the Champions Universe book that I can think of is on page 23 regarding Star*Guardian being assigned to Earth's Solar System by the Odragans. This smacks of the Green Lanters Corp and the Guardians, but I think Marvel has a few alien heros with similar origins. (NOT Rom) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paigeoliver Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? The problem with the DC Universe to me was that everyone else just couldn't be as cool as Batman and Superman, who were both all-powerful in their respective areas. Now Marvel! Fantastic Four, Luke Cage, Daredevil, oh yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? In fact' date=' I think the only homage the Champs uni has to DC [i']at all[/i] is the Harbringer of Justice (better known as Batman) and he only occures in Dark Champions. He can also be seen as being like the Punisher, considering their mutual penchant for perforating punks. Batman's not so fond of the whole gunplay motif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? add in UNTIL-Shield VIPER-Hydra/AIM Actually, ARGENT would be the AIM analog for CU. And I believe the Justice Squadron is supposed to be the JLA analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? JSA, actually. JLA bits are incorporated into the Sentinels, though its more an Avengers analogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Franklin Stone - Lex Luther Black Harlequin - The Joker Viperia - Supergirl(!) Nighthawk - Batclone Meteorman - Green Lantern Kinetik - Flash Doubtless there are others. Funnily enough, today I was thinking about the characters presented in the first edition of Champions. They occurred to me as being a mix of DC heroes and Marvel villains. I'm not quite sure what I am going to do with that thought, but I think there is an idea in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Franklin Stone - Lex Luther Black Harlequin - The Joker Viperia - Supergirl(!) Nighthawk - Batclone Meteorman - Green Lantern Kinetik - Flash Doubtless there are others. Funnily enough, today I was thinking about the characters presented in the first edition of Champions. They occurred to me as being a mix of DC heroes and Marvel villains. I'm not quite sure what I am going to do with that thought, but I think there is an idea in there somewhere. A few more off the top of my head: The High Apostic Church - The Church of Blood Kingdom of the Apes - Gorilla City Atlantis legends - Atlantis from DC MARS - SCU Nightwind - Nightwing Deuce - Negative Woman Foxbat- Batman inspired Thorn - Poison Ivy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackalope Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Foxbat- Batman inspired I always run Foxbat as if he thought he was the Adam West Batman. I think the CU is more like the MU than the DCU, though it has analogs for most of the DCU's major characters. For me, more than anything, it's the exsistence of UNTIL/Shield, whose semi-constant presence really lends that Marvel flavor. Also, the MU is just more Mook Friendly than the DCU, with way more villainous Super Agent organizations, and the CU reflects that as well. Also, the CU has no clear Superman analog, and it's Batman clone (Nighthawk) is just not on par with the real Bats. Also, he takes orders from Iron Man (Defender)! I just can't imagine the DCU without the JLA and Supes being everywhere. Of course, the MU has analogs for most of the DCU, so it's possible that what appear to be DCU analogs in the CU are actually clones of the Marvel characters that are analogs of the DCU characters. I mean, maybe Nighthawk is actually a clone of Marvel's Batman analog from the Squadron Supreme...Nighthawk. Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I agree the Champions Universe has more in common with Marvel than DC but that probably has to do with the fact that in the early 1980s when the original champions' characters were being designed and played Marvel was blowing DC out of the water. When I run through a list in my head of cool villain concepts Marvel villains always pop up first. Dr. Doom, Magneto, Loki, Ultron, Juggernaut, Mephisto, Masters of Evil, Green Goblin, ect. The only DC villains that really pop into my head are Ras AL Ghul, Sinestro, and Darkseid. I do believe the Champions Universe did have a Superman as well in Vanguard. But he was killed in the Battle of Detroit, if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? And Champs U has a serious ( non-ducky ) Batman analogue, too, sort of. . . . . .the Harbinger of Justice. He's just not welcome in superheroic company. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? And Champs U has a serious ( non-ducky ) Batman analogue, too, sort of. . . . . .the Harbinger of Justice. He's just not welcome in superheroic company. . . Nope, the Harbinger is more Punisher than Batman. Although the host of ugly villains remind me of Batman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? When I run through a list in my head of cool villain concepts Marvel villains always pop up first. Dr. Doom, Magneto, Loki, Ultron, Juggernaut, Mephisto, Masters of Evil, Green Goblin, ect. The only DC villains that really pop into my head are Ras AL Ghul, Sinestro, and Darkseid. Hmm... Vandal Savage, Gorilla Grodd(!), Brainiac, the Ultra-Humanite, Solomon Grundy, the Wizard, the Fiddler, Deathstroke the Terminator, Lex Luther, Metallo, the Parasite, Two-Face, the Phantom Zone Villains... A couple of these are personal favourites rather than to everyone's taste, of course. As for the Marvel villains you listed, the only ones that do much for me are Dr Doom and Magneto, although all of them are OK. I will concede your general point though: Marvel is probably better at churning out cartloads of vaguely interesting villains. On the other hand, DC has better heroes, IMHO. As far as my Champions games go, my favourite villain concepts all boil down to: a silly costume, a mad laugh, a pack of flunkies and a superweapon. Who needs powers? You might want to give some of them a way of escaping when their plots are foiled, but others might just simply be arrested. Check out Dr Doom's first appearance - the only personal power he actually used was flight, and that was when he was escaping. PS: I also think your list of cool Marvel villains is deficient. Where is Namor, the Skrulls and the Hulk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Nope, the Harbinger is more Punisher than Batman. Although the host of ugly villains remind me of Batman. I would argue that the Harbringer is Punisher's philosophy and methods combined with Batmans uber-competence and "I'm a normal that can own most supers" skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I would argue that the Harbringer is Punisher's philosophy and methods combined with Batmans uber-competence and "I'm a normal that can own most supers" skill set. Possibly. If he wasn't so lame i'd compare him to Solo (from Spider-Man) but i can see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I prefer the Marvel U to the DC U for the most part, because of how the heroes are set up. DC heroes are all 'icons', as it were ... the headline DC characters were all uber-competent, nigh-perfect characters. They were symbols, in a way ... always in control of their lives. Their powers granted them control over their little parts of the universe. Compare/constrast with Spider-Man, who had fewer problems in costume than in his secret ID, the Hulk who was uncontrollable, the Thing who didn't want his powers, the public backlash of mutancy, etc etc. Basically, Marvel's heroes were more 'human' than DCs ... which I think is important. Or, I could just be completely f'ing loco. Your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I prefer the Marvel U to the DC U for the most part, because of how the heroes are set up. DC heroes are all 'icons', as it were ... the headline DC characters were all uber-competent, nigh-perfect characters. They were symbols, in a way ... always in control of their lives. Their powers granted them control over their little parts of the universe. They tend to overshadow any other character by their very presence. Compare/constrast with Spider-Man, who had fewer problems in costume than in his secret ID, the Hulk who was uncontrollable, the Thing who didn't want his powers, the public backlash of mutancy, etc etc. Basically, Marvel's heroes were more 'human' than DCs ... which I think is important. Or, I could just be completely f'ing loco. Your call. You have a good point. When I ran a comics based campaign. I mixed both universes. But most my villains were Marvel's. Outside of Batman, and to an extent Superman, DC has few memorable villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Basically, Marvel's heroes were more 'human' than DCs ... which I think is important. For my money, Marvel overdoes the "heroes with problems" bit. They go beyond 'human' into soap opera. Of course, these days Batman is as messed up as Spiderman, the Hulk and the Thing combined. On a slightly different note, I like the FF and original X-Men a lot more than the original Avengers. Thor? Iron Man? Ant-Man? Yawn. I don't even know who are in the Avengers or the X-Men at the moment. I presume the FF are pretty much the same as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Considering the slaughterhouse the hacks made out of Avengers, it's anyone's guess as to who is on that team at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Well, the roster post-Disassembled is known: Cap, Iron Man, Spider-man, Wolverine, Spiderwoman, Luke Cage, and Sentry. IOW, it sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? Besides whoever the hell is Sentry, it's not the characters, so much as the fact that the characters don't, for the most part, fit the book or the team at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? The Sentry is a character from a limited series done by Marvel. Basically, he was the Silver Age Superman of the Marvel U, until the manifestation of his dark side threatened the entire universe, forcing the entire world to forget he ever existed, including him. Good concept, but incomprehensible why or how it would be used in a mainline comic. Combine that with potential Spider and Wolvie issues, and the two pet characters. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Official Champs Uni = Marvel Uni? I presume the FF are pretty much the same as always. I hear the editors may try to shake things up by having one of them threaten to *gasp* leave the Fantastic Four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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