Is Force Feild Overpriced?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

I would agree with Vorsch that in most cases Armor is still clearly not normal skin or clothing. While it may not be "visible" in that it probably does not glow like/distort/ripple like a Force Field' date=' it's probably still noticible for the most part to any intelligent observer.[/quote']

 

I disagree with this ... unless the armor is bought visible or the character has Distinctive Features, then Armor and buying up defenses and buying Damage Resistance is functionally identical, both in terms of effects and costs. I would probably buy Rogue, Luke Cage, and Superman with Armor, as well as The Thing or Colossus ... the latter two just have Distinctive Features.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

[*]Force Field.

• spend 10 points on characteristics to get 10/10 PD/ED.
  
• spend points on Force Field that is 15rPD/15rED with 0 End (+ 1/2) Persistent (+ 1/2).
  
• (60 active points so far)
  
• and then apply Always On (- 1/2).
  
• 40 points for Force Field.
  
• Total spent: 50 points
  
• (a savings of 5 points for a power that is NOT invisible compared to the other 2 examples)
  

 

It also bears noting that the Always On limitation presumes that there are some negative side effects to the power's continual functioning ... so, you save five points, but can't eat through it, or somesuch.

[zornwil]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Here's the fun part... Unless the Armor is percievable to THREE sense groups' date=' you can't take the Visible Limitation. I'm sure we can all think of at two (Sight; look, he's armored - and Touch; that don't feel like skin...), but what about the third? Does his armored body make him heavy? Maybe he makes loud pounding noises when he walks (though that would make Running visible). Would his armor stink or smell funny? Kinda a cop out maybe... but what if it [i']tastes[/i] different than normal skin?

And hence you can see why i already fudge the three-senses rule...

 

which isn't to dismiss your point, DR.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

And hence you can see why i already fudge the three-senses rule...

 

which isn't to dismiss your point, DR.

Of course. I usually do as well. My default third sense is usually an unusual sense in a standard group, such as Sonar (which would reflect the odd nature of the Armored surface).

 

My other default is to use Distinctive Features to make the Armor visible.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Is invisible really worth +1 for defences( visible is only -1/4 in comparison)' date=' ...?[/quote']

NO! FREd doesn't say it explicitly, but Invisible is defacto for Attack Powers only. Seriously, what advantage is there for a Defense Power to be invisible? Maybe there's a little bit of an advantage, but I don't think it's even worth +1/4.

 

If you disagree, I offer you this challenge: Is there any published character that has a defensive power bought with Invisible?

 

My house rule re: visibility of powers: A power which normally costs END and requires an attack roll is visible to three sense groups. A power which normally costs END and doesn't normally require an attack roll is visible to one sense group.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

NO! FREd doesn't say it explicitly, but Invisible is defacto for Attack Powers only. Seriously, what advantage is there for a Defense Power to be invisible? Maybe there's a little bit of an advantage, but I don't think it's even worth +1/4.

 

If you disagree, I offer you this challenge: Is there any published character that has a defensive power bought with Invisible?

Well, I can't find the book now but I seem to remember a 4th ed. title called "Allies" that had a kid who had invisible force field/force wall and telekinesis powers AND light illusions (the predecessor to images). He used these powers in combination to create the image of a superhero who was immune to damage. (Very similar to the kid from the Justice Society homage episode on the Animated Justice League.)

 

This also reminds me of a villian in the 80's era Champions game I first played in. The villian's name was Field Marshall and his powers were basically the same as Invisible Woman from Fantastic Four without the ability to turn himself or anything else invisible, just his powers were. Also, at the time, one our team members named Lightspeed was a clone of Northstar from Alpha Flight. Field Marshall posed a major danger to Lightspeed since an Invisible Force Wall created in his flight path could potentially knock him out in mid flight!

 

Force Wall may not exactly fit the litmus test you describe but an Invisible Girl type character can use Force Wall or Force Field in ambush against movement based characters quite effectively.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

So what the consensus is saying is that while Force Feild is more expensive than straight up armor and PD/ED+ Damage Resistance. Hyperman just proved the point. People are OK with the discrepancy because FF are just useful.

[Gary]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

So what the consensus is saying is that while Force Feild is more expensive than straight up armor and PD/ED+ Damage Resistance. Hyperman just proved the point. People are OK with the discrepancy because FF are just useful.

 

 

Don't underestimate the fact that under the default rules, you can stick FF in a EC but not Armor. FF at half price is definitely better than Armor at full price.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Don't underestimate the fact that under the default rules' date=' you can stick FF in a EC but not Armor. FF at half price is definitely better than Armor at full price.[/quote']

Then again, you can always put Cost END on Armor to put it in an EC, and suddenly you have the same cost... Only FF can also have other stuff that Armor can't, and so you can lump PD/ED and Mental, Flash & Power Defense into a single slot without fudging anything.

[schir1964]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

According to the rules' date=' FAQ and Steve Long, the default for Armor is fully invisible power effects. The only way you can tell someone has Armor is to attack him and marvel that he didn't keel over. Granted, things like Obvious Foci will change this aspect.[/quote']

Alright, who started the "Not Visible" debate again and didn't invite me! (8^D)

 

Dust Raven, I just searched all references to Visible and Invisible in the Rules FAQs and couldn't find where Steve Long said explicitly that Armor (or any other no END costing power) is "Fully Invisiible" by default. Could you give me a page reference? Thanks.

 

However, I did run across this:

Question: Since Vehicles’ Movement Powers inherently

cost no END, does that mean they’re inherently invisible

and/or that Invisible Power Effects cannot be purchased for

them?

Answer: No. Common sense tells us that vehicular

Movement Powers are very much perceivable — and in fact,

you can find instances of Invisible Power Effects (for

Hearing) being applied to them in several published books.

Frankly, I think that No END Costing powers should also default to "Not Visible" but not "Fully Invisible" and let common sense of the SFX prevail.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Now as to the whole FF vs Armor vs PD/ED. There's a point that's been overlooked.

 

Powers must be turned on/off.

 

Stats can't be turned off/on per se. You can exert your STR at different levels, but it's not same as turning it on or off since you still have you full STR at all times. For Example, Casual STR being used successfully at only 1 END cost without it affecting your actions for the phase.

 

These differences needs to be reconciled for those that want to reduce it to just PD/ED. Also, I think Dispel may not be used against Stats.

 

There's a lot of subtle differences between Stats and Powers that will need to be addressed one way or another.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Mentor]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Don't underestimate the fact that under the default rules' date=' you can stick FF in a EC but not Armor. FF at half price is definitely better than Armor at full price.[/quote']

Yep. Armor, however, is almost alway OAF for a price break, but FF in an EC at half price is pretty cool. It still uses END so it isn't underpriced either.

[Gary]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Then again' date=' you can always put Cost END on Armor to put it in an EC, and suddenly you have the same cost... Only FF can also have other stuff that Armor can't, and so you can lump PD/ED and Mental, Flash & Power Defense into a single slot without fudging anything.[/quote']

 

 

Don't forget that according to the FAQ, you can't have Costs End and Reduced End on the same power. So 60 active points of Armor that Costs End in the EC will cost you 6 End per phase no matter what. Whereas you can easily stick a 0 or 1/2 End FF in that same EC without any problems.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Don't forget that according to the FAQ' date=' you can't have Costs End and Reduced End on the same power. So 60 active points of Armor that Costs End in the EC will cost you 6 End per phase no matter what. Whereas you can easily stick a 0 or 1/2 End FF in that same EC without any problems.[/quote']

Yup! One more reason the cost of FF is appropriate and balanced.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Is Force Feild Overpriced?

 

Yep. Armor' date=' however, is almost alway OAF for a price break, but FF in an EC at half price is pretty cool.[/quote']

Uh, I think you meant OIF.

 

Well' date=' I can't find the book now but I seem to remember a 4th ed. title called "Allies" that had a kid who had invisible force field/force wall and telekinesis powers AND light illusions (the predecessor to images). He used these powers in combination to create the image of a superhero who was immune to damage.[/quote']

Interesting. 2 minor things:

If it was "Light Illusions," then it must have been 3rd edition, not 4th.

Force Wall is a very different case from Force Field.