The Invisibles Writeups

[OddHat]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

A FW doesn't have to be UBO, does it? You can just enclose others in a FW, casting it at range as necessary.

 

As to the mobile bit with Dash, I took it as a Power Trick by both her and Dash - perhaps that's fudging it but that was my impression. Though if I did it as you suggest I'd probably limit the UBO and make it less expensive, as it's only UBO if they are doing something specific, they can't really cast or manipulate the FW itself even if she wanted them to.

 

No worries about tinkering, I like getting feedback, I'd like these to end up as the best possible writeups, which takes help like yours and Hyper-man's.

 

Good point about the robot, but here's my dilemma - she seems to cast the FWs effortlessly in the battles, and only when the robot smashed hard did it burst. I THINK that the robot actually performed a special maneuver by catching the FW like an egg between two surfaces that would not give and basically transmitted a sort of shockwave. I think...

 

PS - remember, also, she had no problem when the FW completely smashed 2 of the hovercrafts (though those DO seem kinda fragile as I think about it - Syndrome must have skimped on his hovercraft funding!).

 

The Force Wall doesn't need Useable By Others; the Force Field slot of the MP would take that, with the special effect being that it still looked like a Force Wall. That way she and Dash can do the Hamster Ball without putting a ton of Mobile on the Force Wall. On the other hand, making it a power stunt works as well.

 

I agree it's a tough call on the feedback. Treating it as a special maneuver by the robot is fine, or saying that she was Pushing to hold off the robot and that the wall went down because she ran out of END.

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

{If you're crazy enough to have not seen the movie yet, this contains minor spoilers}

 

Is 10 OCV + taking time to aim enough to make the long-range headshot with the coconut against the agent? Should be OK, since he was standing still and taken by surprise.

 

It's hard to add stuff on, since you were going for a specific point total on the adults, but I'm musing over whether Deduction would be appropriate for Mr Incredible and Elastigirl. Mr I, for example, figures out the dead hero's message blasted in the wall, and that it's the password, pretty quickly.

I think it's okay, as you have a Set and Brace there. CSLs just got expensive and it's hard to keep within 350!

 

Re Deduction, agreed. I fudged by leaving on Tactics and letting that cover it for now. I did think about that. One could argue dropping Tactics or something and adding that in, to me it becomes a 50/50 proposition when having to keep within 350.

 

Good points, thank you.

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

The Force Wall doesn't need Useable By Others; the Force Field slot of the MP would take that, with the special effect being that it still looked like a Force Wall. That way she and Dash can do the Hamster Ball without putting a ton of Mobile on the Force Wall. On the other hand, making it a power stunt works as well.

 

I agree it's a tough call on the feedback. Treating it as a special maneuver by the robot is fine, or saying that she was Pushing to hold off the robot and that the wall went down because she ran out of END.

Pushing makes sense, and could also be that the FW has increased toughness that requires her to pay extra END, kind of like Dad and his increased STR. It is hellaciously strong, I think the writeup may even be too low by a bit but FW really is expensive (in fact, compared to FF and Armor I do kind of buy the argument from another thread that it might be overpriced).

 

(yeah, I know, I said I was going to concentrate on work, but this is more fun! But I'll be back off shortly for the rest of the day, depending upon temptation.)

 

PS - and sorry, I missed you indicated FF, not FW, at first. I dunno, FW seems so specific to what she does and even given SFX I'm just not sure if I like fudging into a "Force Wall Force Field," but this also runs along the lines of the pricing discussion.

[Kristopher]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I think it's okay, as you have a Set and Brace there. CSLs just got expensive and it's hard to keep within 350!

 

Re Deduction, agreed. I fudged by leaving on Tactics and letting that cover it for now. I did think about that. One could argue dropping Tactics or something and adding that in, to me it becomes a 50/50 proposition when having to keep within 350.

 

Good points, thank you.

 

Tactics is a must for the parents, though.

[Victim]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I don't buy Dash's super Dex and SPD. I don't see his base CV as being anywhere near his parent's level. It looked like he had to abort to avoid being hit by that agent. And in terms of combat actions, he mostly just used movement - he didn't really seem to have a high speed. I'd probably give him lots of movement, but lower dex and spd than his folks.

[Moody Loner]

Nice job.

 

Showed my wife, as she's been threatening to run the Incredibles ( Mr. I and followers ) in our next game.

 

Might be an excuse to see what our three year old calls "the superhero movie" a few more times.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Pretty good stuff!

 

I see things I would have built differently, but then, that's one of the beauties of HERO ... you can build the same thing in many different ways.

[nexus]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Good write ups, Zornwil, My only suggestion is giving Elasti Girl the Power Skill for her Stretching. She seems to be very experienced and creative with her abilities.

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Good write ups' date=' Zornwil, My only suggestion is giving Elasti Girl the Power Skill for her Stretching. She seems to be very experienced and creative with her abilities.[/quote']

Thanks (to all) - re your comment, there's a Power Skill there, that's what it's for, I didn't realize but the template didn't print it was for Stretching. That one's covered at least!

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I don't buy Dash's super Dex and SPD. I don't see his base CV as being anywhere near his parent's level. It looked like he had to abort to avoid being hit by that agent. And in terms of combat actions' date=' he mostly just used movement - he didn't really seem to have a high speed. I'd probably give him lots of movement, but lower dex and spd than his folks.[/quote']

I see the DEX and the SPD as opposed to the CV!

 

I'm thinking in terms of his turn on a dime, grabbing the vine and swinging successfully with little experience, great catching with hand-eye prediction, and what I think his reaction time was like. My opinion is that for him the "doesn't know powers" disad should perhaps be more limiiting, but then again he learned really quickly to do some running tricks.

 

However, you're probably right about the SPD as I think about it, I need to revisit the running and the per-turn effects and such. I still think his SPD wouldn't be below 4 (he seems to pretty clearly get in actions more than a high-end guard who presumably is a 3), so that leaves 4 or 5. He does seem to have dodges to spare, though - I think he did aborts and then had actions to burn, re the agents. The problem is any real strike hurts him, but note that he was really DEXy/SPDy at grabbing vines and the liike to break his fall.

 

Also as to DEX I do tend to over-rank speedsters. It's worthy of consideration, anyway.

 

What values are you thinking?

[Kristopher]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

IMO, Dash's quick reaction time and short interval between distinct actions justifies the 6 SPD. The DEX might be a bit high, though.

 

Of course, as with all character constructions, this is where personal assumptions of scale will come into play, as the highest DEX I've ever given any NPC for any reason was 33.

[nexus]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Thanks (to all) - re your comment' date=' there's a Power Skill there, that's what it's for, I didn't realize but the template didn't print it was for Stretching. That one's covered at least! [/quote']

 

Sorry, Zornwil. I missed that.

[Victim]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I was thinking around 18-20 Dex and 4 SPD. I was thinking that tricks relating to super speed would make the difference with the Dex and eye hand stuff. Buy Acceleration advantages and movement skill levels for stopping and turning on a dime. Rapid Senses and some PSLs versus movement will make some part of his super speed act like a person in normal speed as far as penalties go.

 

I'd also remove some of the Hand Attack and replace it with autofire. He didn't seem to do a whole lot of damage in his stand up fight on top the hover-shredder, even when he hit the agent many times. That seems alot like the effect of an autofire attack versus (comparatively) high defenses.

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Sorry' date=' Zornwil. I missed that.[/quote']

No worries, it was kinda hidden. I know the writeup so it's easy for me to spot it, but that's all, I didn't realize the export didn't catch it (or I screwed up possibly, will have to double-check, but it was there for Stretching expressly).

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I was thinking around 18-20 Dex and 4 SPD. I was thinking that tricks relating to super speed would make the difference with the Dex and eye hand stuff. Buy Acceleration advantages and movement skill levels for stopping and turning on a dime. Rapid Senses and some PSLs versus movement will make some part of his super speed act like a person in normal speed as far as penalties go.

 

I'd also remove some of the Hand Attack and replace it with autofire. He didn't seem to do a whole lot of damage in his stand up fight on top the hover-shredder, even when he hit the agent many times. That seems alot like the effect of an autofire attack versus (comparatively) high defenses.

I thnk your approach is entirely valid and perhaps there's some merit, but I tend toward's Kristopher way of thinking.

 

You have an excellent point of Autofire, I probably ought to pursue that, I have a personal bias against it but it does seem more accurate. Thank you.

 

Everyone, I probably won't do v2 until after the weekend, but that doesn't mean I'm ignoring the suggestions. Thanks, all!

[Jinx999]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I'd also give them some kind of super-teamwork ability. Something along the line of: Danger sense and defence manouver (only when fighting together), due to the way they cover each other's backs and a close range mindlink to represent the way they know each other so well that they know what each other is doing.

 

Jinx

[Victim]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I thnk your approach is entirely valid and perhaps there's some merit, but I tend toward's Kristopher way of thinking.

 

Well, I can easily understand your approach. The problem with my ideas is that they essentially suck. My way, you save points by taking less Dex, then spend a bunch of points to buy back some of the benefits of Dex (and other minor flavor stuff that quickly adds up) but not all. Less effectiveness for about the same amount of points.

 

Maybe a better idea would be to keep the super Dex, but do "No CV, -1/2" or something on the last ten. The kid can buy it off as he learns to fight.

[freakboy6117]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

are you going to do jack jack?

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I'd also give them some kind of super-teamwork ability. Something along the line of: Danger sense and defence manouver (only when fighting together), due to the way they cover each other's backs and a close range mindlink to represent the way they know each other so well that they know what each other is doing.

 

Jinx

It's a good idea but: a) just maxed out the points for the parents; I think a lot of this is reflected in giving the parents Tactics and Teamwork; and c) IMHO a lot of the cool teamwork isn't reflected in points in general, it's reflected (in RPGs) by the time we allow people to make decisions and the SPD chart (i.e., the luxury of having more actions than "regular" people).

 

However, to your point, they certainly should immediately do Teamwork. I should have given Violet and Dash Teamwork at 14/-, and just not Tactics. Will do that on v2.

 

And I appreciate your view, I'm not trying to debate anyone in the thread, exactly, but want to explain my opinions. I'd think more seriously about your view if/when I do an unlimited points version.

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Well, I can easily understand your approach. The problem with my ideas is that they essentially suck. My way, you save points by taking less Dex, then spend a bunch of points to buy back some of the benefits of Dex (and other minor flavor stuff that quickly adds up) but not all. Less effectiveness for about the same amount of points.

 

Maybe a better idea would be to keep the super Dex, but do "No CV, -1/2" or something on the last ten. The kid can buy it off as he learns to fight.

Oooooh, I like it!

 

I'm going to do some "mindless" catching up on the boards and need to do more work on my own campaign, but later this weekend will definitely do v2s and, to answer freakboy6117's post, do Jack Jack.

 

My own feeling is that Jack Jack's core powers will be some sort of fire-related thing but rather than go from my speculative opinion I'm going to go with what someone (OddHat?) basically suggested about an NCC VPP, will give it more thought as I get into it more.

 

Minor bummer note - I had hoped to see The Incredibles again this weekend but turns out we're going to see 2 movies anyway, one animated feature (the mob story thing from Dreamworks) and the other one I've been dying ot see anyway, End of the Century, the Ramones documentary. Between those, work (I have to get some work done Sunday), practice (Sunday PM), and my own campaign work I seriously doubt I'll have time to see the movie. Although if I get caught up on work by 1 PM or therabouts on Sunday I might go again.

 

Then again I shouldn't moan, it'll be time #4 if I'm so lucky this weekend.

[Guzalot]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

I finally got to see this wonderful movie yesterday. I had to play the "it's my birthday" card to get the wife to agree and she thanked me for it.

 

First off: great write ups but...why did you feel the need to force Elastigirl and Mr. Incredible into 350 points? They are both obviously highly experienced and Mr. Incredible, from what I gathered, was considered one of the best heroes of his time. That's worth a few XP don't you think?

 

Anyway, great write-ups Now. if someone would do an Edna Mode writeup....

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Just for sake of fitting the tradition. Yeah, got preoccupied (and sick), I need to get back to this...

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: The Invisibles Writeups

 

Finally saw The Incredibles today -- fabulous movie!

 

One interesting note is that Sydnrome's agents were a lot more supers-savvy than agents usually are in comics and media. One in particular got very close to actually managing to shoot Violet and actually used all kinds of anti-invisibility tricks to detect her. He knew there was an invisble opponet around, and he used various ingenious means to figure out where she was. Violet was lucky to live through the encounter.

 

The kids actually did come across as very inexperienced in using their powers in combat. They were clever, but they didn't know any of the trcisk that a more experienced hero would know as a matter of course. Dash, for example, was surprisingly easy to hit for a speedster -- he'd never been in combat before and didn't know to keep his entire body moving at all times just enough to make himself more difficult to hit. Since their inexperience nearly got both Violet and Dash killed, it's good to see it reflected in their writeups.

 

Jack-Jack is very difficult to model. being an infant, he has a very limtied grasp of his surroundings, but seems to recognize danger and instinctively react to it. he seems to be an extremely powerful metamorph who can change himself into any form of matter or energy (lead, pure heat) or into other types of creatures. When he gets older he'll be perhaps the family member with the most raw power.

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles WriteupsHere's Dash v2. Mainly I took up Victim's idea of DEX -1/2 for part of his DEX; given his abilities against pretty good guards I kept his base DEX at 20 so he'd get a CV of 7, the other 17 of his DEX being "no CV". This doesn't show up very well as HERO Designer (understandably) can't differentiate what isn't being derived from DEX so bear that in mind. I also gave him Teamwork and as someone else suggested modified his HA to be less dice but Autofire; I steered to try to give him enough dice to be useful still in his Move-Through in knocking down an Agent but keeping it limited enough that a little gets through against Agents, with Autofire being needed (at his current age/power) to pile on the stun.Dash (Dashiell Parr)Player:

Val	Char	Cost
8	STR	-2
37	DEX	30
12	CON	4
8	BODY	-4
9	INT	-1
9	EGO	-2
12	PRE	2
12	COM	1
6	PD	4
6	ED	4
6	SPD	13
12	REC	16
50	END	13
18	STUN	0

6" RUN02" SWIM01 1/2" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 78

Cost	Power	END
68	Hyper-fast running: Flight 40", No Turn Mode (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (120 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Not up sheer surfaces, must remain in motion on inappropriate surfaces (water, etc.); -1/2), Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4)	5
10	HA +2d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)	1
10	Luck 2d6	0
14	DEX with no CV effect: +17 DEX (51 Active Points); Limited Power - does not effect CV Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)

Powers Cost: 102

Cost	Skill
3	Acrobatics 16-
3	Teamwork 16-
3	Oratory 11-
3	Power 11-
5	Rapid Attack (HTH)
5	Rapid Attack (Ranged)

Skills Cost: 22

Cost	Perk
8	Contact (Contact has extremely useful Skills or resources, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact is slavishly loyal to character) 8-

Perks Cost: 8

Cost	Talent
24	Combat Luck (12 PD/12 ED)

Talents Cost: 24

Val	Disadvantages
10	Psychological Limitation: Competitive (Common, Moderate)
25	Social Limitation: Little kid (Very Frequently, Severe)
20	Psychological Limitation: Overconfident/showoff (Very Common, Strong)
5	Distinctive Features: Expresses emotions/ideas openly (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
15	Psychological Limitation: Not experienced with powers (Very Common, Moderate)
10	Rivalry: Familial, With sister (friendly), Rival is As Powerful, Rival is a Player Character, Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival, Rival Aware of Rivalry
5	Physical Limitation: Little kid (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
10	Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Occasionally, Major)

Disadvantage Points: 100

Base Points: 200Experience Required: 0Total Experience Available: 0Experience Unspent: 0Total Character Cost: 234

Height: 1.42 m	Hair: Blonde
Weight: 30.00 kg	Eyes: Blue

Appearance: Personality: As his mother says, he's "incredibly competitive" and "a bit of a show-off" (taking after his father).Quote:"Saying everyone's special is a way of saying nobody is."

"Uh-oh!"

Background: Dash is the son of Mr. Incredible and Elasti-Girl, a 4th-going-to-5th grader when our story picks up.Powers/Tactics: He's still becoming accustomed to his powers, but Dash has discovered he can run on water and quickly has realized the best way to lose a pursuer is to suddenly move unexpectedly, something his agility allows him to do despite his extreme speed. He understands intuitively his role in combat support, providing distractions and "going long" as needed.Campaign Use: 

[zornwil]

Re: The Invisibles WriteupsHere's Elasti-Girl v2, I added Offensive Ranged Disarm, and tweaked her CON and resulting scores a bit as previously discussed.Elasti-Girl (Helen Parr)Player:

Val	Char	Cost
29	STR	4
27	DEX	51
19	CON	18
13	BODY	6
14	INT	4
14	EGO	8
13	PRE	3
16	COM	3
10	PD	7
9	ED	5
6	SPD	23
14	REC	14
46	END	4
41	STUN	11

6" RUN02" SWIM025 1/2" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 161

Cost	Power	END
7	+15 STR (15 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only with stretching; -1/2)	3
9	Damage Resistance (9 PD/9 ED)	0
3	Gliding 5", Only when can stretch Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (Only +0 as very unlikely to be needed when not able to stretch; +0) (5 Active Points); Parachuting (-1/2)	0
10	Stretching Powers: Elemental Control, 20-point powers
30	1) Stretching 8" (40 Active Points)	4
20	2) Desolidification (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2)	4
10	3) Leaping +20" (25 1/2" forward, 12 1/2" upward) (20 Active Points)	2
10	4) Swinging 20" (20 Active Points)	2

Powers Cost: 99

Cost	Martial Arts Maneuver
4	Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 7 1/2d6 Strike
3	Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 5 1/2d6 +v/5, Target Falls
4	Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
4	Martial Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 39 STR to Disarm

Martial Arts Cost: 15

Cost	Skill
3	Acrobatics 14-
3	Breakfall 14-
7	Combat Piloting 16-
6	+2 with Martial Maneuvers
3	+1 with any three maneuvers or a tight group of attacks - using stretching with attacks
3	Contortionist 14-
9	Power 14-
3	Stealth 14-
3	Tactics 12-
3	Teamwork 14-
3	Navigation (Air, Other City) 12-

Skills Cost: 46

Cost	Perk
6	Contact: Edna (E.) Mode (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has very useful Skills or resources, Very Good relationship with Contact) 8-
2	Favor

Perks Cost: 8

Cost	Talent
6	Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED)
15	Combat Sense 12-

Talents Cost: 21

Val	Disadvantages
10	DNPC: Family in general (slight fudge) 14- (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills)
15	Enraged: Anyone messing with her family (Common), go 11-, recover 14-
5	Psychological Limitation: Works hard to keep everyone's spirits up/provide support (Uncommon, Moderate)
5	Unluck: 1d6
5	Psychological Limitation: Embarrassed about referring to self as Elastic-girl/old days (Uncommon, Moderate)
15	Social Limitation: Bears most familial/domestic responsibilities (Frequently, Major)
10	Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Occasionally, Major)
25	Psychological Limitation: Driven to keep family together and protect them (puts them before herself, doesn't forget in any circumstance) (Very Common, Total)
10	Psychological Limitation: Competitive/woman in a man's world (Common, Moderate)
10	Reputation: Major heroine, 11-
10	Psychological Limitation: Curiousity (okay, reaching a little...) (Common, Moderate)
15	Hunted: Syndrome, no doubt others 11- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
5	Physical Limitation: Can get stuck and otherwise "molded" more easily (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
5	Distinctive Features: Carefully maintains distinctive hairstyle (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
5	Social Limitation: "Stay at home mom" (Occasionally, Minor)

Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200Experience Required: 0Total Experience Available: 0Experience Unspent: 0Total Character Cost: 350

Height: 1.75 m	Hair: Red
Weight: 58.00 kg	Eyes: Brown

Appearance: Personality: Helen Parr is a headstrong women who tries hard to keep things even keel in the Parr family, assuming most domestic duties. She has a temper, though, although she controls it well, it mainly showing up in flashes of angrily-intoned words and then quickly restrained.Quote:"I don't think so."Background: Elasti-Girl was one of the premier supers during their initial time of greatness. She married Mr. Incredible just as supers were about to become unpopular. Independent-minded and eager, she nonetheless quietly settled down when supers were asked to hang up their capes.Powers/Tactics: Elasti-Girl is an exceptional infiltrator as well as flexible in combat, serving both offensively and as combat support. She's tactically extremely keen-minded, as is her husband, and together they make a tough team to beat.Campaign Use: