Green Lantern Object Creation...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Once upon a time, in a game group I was in back in ... 1990, I think, one player had a character with earth elemental powers. He had Force Wall, Entangle, Telekinesis, and probably another power that I have forgotten. None of us was quite sure the best way to write him up, and it seemed grossly unfair to have him buy all of these powers straight when he could only use one at a time, but buying them as simple slots in a multipower would mean that he'd need to re-roll to hit someone depending on whether he wanted to grab someone, or squeeze them, or whatever. So what he wound up doing was buying them as multi-slots in a multipower. The character just did whatever made sense at the time, and we applied whichever game mechanic seemed most appropriate for the given effect. The price was fair, and mechanically it was playable.

 

Sometimes we get so enamoured of game mechaics for their own sake, we forget that they exist solely to make it easier to play the game fairly.

[Bucky]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

By the book you cant legally push people around with a FW. You arent legally supposed to use it to make bridges.

 

What you chose to allow in the interests of common sense is a completely seperate affair than what is rules legal.

 

Why cant FW be used to push things around or make bridges legally? Unknown, though likely its a game balance vs logic thing.

 

Does it specifically say that it is illegal? Or does it state that "neither FW or Entangles are intended to be used to make Bridges"? The intention is irrelavant. If it works, it works. If it ain't banned, then its allowable.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Because what is "perfectly suitable" depends on what one wants to accomplish with the power. For myself' date=' I did not want Dr. Neutron's energy constructs to instantly evaporate if they got scratched, nor did I want him to have to expend END to keep them around once they were created. As such, Force Wall was not "perfectly suitable" for that character.[/quote']

 

Hence the use of an Entangle instead being more suitable for him. My comment was that GL's walls seem perfectly suited for force wall, so why make it kludgier with limitations on an entangle?

 

BTW, I'd say a 12 PD force wall survives a lot more than a scratch, but that's just me. A 12 PD/12ED force wall covers one hex facing just as effectively as a 6d6 6 DEF entangle, and braks with the same pressure exerted (ie 13 BOD). It will, however, survive numerous 10 BOD or even 12 BOD hits, where the Entangle will not. For the same AP, a 16 PD Energy Transparent wall really holds up well. [24 PD is even better, but you can bet someone will drop a lit cigar on it...]

 

A 12 PD Transparent 0 END wall would work well too, if you want something that's effortless to maintain and drops if he's KO'd or stunned.

 

Entangle's biggest advantage is the ability to trade off BOD for area at your discretion by spreading to fill more than one hex (where FW defenses and area are purchased separately - a Multipower could fix that, but the Entangle is more elegant in this regard).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

By the book you cant legally push people around with a FW.

 

You need TK to force people to move. (STR, something that does kncockback, etc. would work - [hmm...FW Does Knockback...])

 

You arent legally supposed to use it to make bridges.

 

Can you cite a page reference for this, or are you extrapolating that the inability to exert pressure and force something to move also prevents the Wall from supporting solid objects?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My comment was that GL's walls seem perfectly suited for force wall' date=' so why make it kludgier with limitations on an entangle?[/quote']

 

The subject of the thread is not Green Lantern himself (or themselves), but "a Green Lantern-like character". As such, even if we knew for a fact that Green Lantern's constructs always required Endurance to maintain, vanished when he went unconscious, and instantly vanished upon suffering a single point of Body damage (and to be clear, we do not know these things), that would be, at most, a source of inspiration. It would not by itself be a reason to discard possible Powers used to create a Green Lantern-like character.

 

Force Wall may be entirely appropriate for one such character. Entangle or TK or even a Variable Power Pool might be entirely appropriate for another. It will depend on the character.

[Kristopher]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Sometimes we get so enamoured of game mechaics for their own sake, we forget that they exist solely to make it easier to play the game fairly.

 

There's something we can agree on.

 

(Although I don't include myself in the "we" that gets enamoured...)

[Richard Logue]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My first thought is a Area of Effect TK with a somewhat unique special effect. Instead of moving things around with the TK, it is stationary but supports the weight placed on it. And of course you simply purchase the amount of STR you want your "bridge" to support.

 

It also works for something like a Tenser'sâ„¢ Disk spell or an elevator effect.

 

To me, it seems like the simplest way to go. The power already has STR built into it. All it needs is the AoE Advantage to make it a span. You can even counter the Advantage with a "Only to Make Bridges" Limitation or a "Stationary Only" Limitation. That would create a specific bridge-building power.

 

Richard

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My first thought is a Area of Effect TK with a somewhat unique special effect. ... You can even counter the Advantage with a "Only to Make Bridges" Limitation or a "Stationary Only" Limitation. That would create a specific bridge-building power.

 

That's probably the most straightforward way to make a "light bridge" or similar effect. It's pretty specialized, though. I wouldn't expect to see it except as maybe a spell in a fantasy game, or as a power in a Power Pool. I suppose it could find its place in a Multipower, too, once the character has some experience and the player is looking for novel ways to spend points without making the character too powerful to play.

[Rapier]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My first thought is a Area of Effect TK with a somewhat unique special effect. Instead of moving things around with the TK' date=' it is stationary but supports the weight placed on it. And of course you simply purchase the amount of STR you want [i']your[/i] "bridge" to support.

 

It also works for something like a Tenser'sâ„¢ Disk spell or an elevator effect.

 

To me, it seems like the simplest way to go. The power already has STR built into it. All it needs is the AoE Advantage to make it a span. You can even counter the Advantage with a "Only to Make Bridges" Limitation or a "Stationary Only" Limitation. That would create a specific bridge-building power.

 

Richard

That's actually not a bad idea. Since the raw underlying power of GL is TK. All the 'effects' are all usages of the underlying TK.

 

But to do a bridge you would need some kind of Line AoE, UBO, Physical Manifestation, etc, etc. It would get kind of kludgy...especially since you would be trying to, in essence, create a Force Wall with TK.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My first thought is a Area of Effect TK with a somewhat unique special effect. Instead of moving things around with the TK' date=' it is stationary but supports the weight placed on it. And of course you simply purchase the amount of STR you want [i']your[/i] "bridge" to support.

I like it! It makes for a rather strange bridge, but may well do what you need it to do. Non-solid objects will pass through it (unless you buy Effects Porus), as will energy. It isn't susceptible to any sort of damage at all, but opposing TK or STR (of sufficient power) might ruin it.

 

How much would the "Stationary Only" limitation be worth? OTOMH, I'd say -1.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Does it specifically say that it is illegal? Or does it state that "neither FW or Entangles are intended to be used to make Bridges"? The intention is irrelavant. If it works' date=' it works. If it ain't banned, then its allowable.[/quote']

Page 109 FREd under Entangles. 2nd Col 1st para. It specifically indicates that to make objects such as Bridges, braces, and stairs you should use Transform.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Page 109 FREd under Entangles. 2nd Col 1st para. It specifically indicates that to make objects such as Bridges' date=' braces, and stairs you should use Transform.[/quote']

 

This obsession with Transform is a phase. It'll pass. Just keep using the game system in a sensible fashion, and the rules will come around.

[Red Knight]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My first thought is a Area of Effect TK with a somewhat unique special effect. Instead of moving things around with the TK' date=' it is stationary but supports the weight placed on it. And of course you simply purchase the amount of STR you want [i']your[/i] "bridge" to support.

 

It also works for something like a Tenser'sâ„¢ Disk spell or an elevator effect.

 

To me, it seems like the simplest way to go. The power already has STR built into it. All it needs is the AoE Advantage to make it a span. You can even counter the Advantage with a "Only to Make Bridges" Limitation or a "Stationary Only" Limitation. That would create a specific bridge-building power.

 

Richard

 

I like this approach. In all honesty, you could tack on a "Variable Adder" and "Variable Limiter" onto the base TK to allow you to chnage or alter the effect. GL is famous for creating a giant hand to grab people or (as in KingdomCome) a giant scoop to pull people out of water.

As was mentioned, The driving force behind the GL is the wearer's will over reality. A the base, he can manifest anything he/she can imagine.

 

Personally, I think I am going to work on the TK approach... Sounds good to me.

 

In regards to paying END for the powers.... I chose to but an END Reserve for the "ring". I bought a large pool with a recovery rating. All the powers are drawn from the Reserve, If the reserve is depleted, there is a fail-safe... a simple forceshield that activates ONLY when the Reserve is empty. That was bought at 0 END. But with charges to represnt a limited time.

[logomancer]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My thoughts would be to make a compound power that has both a level of TK strength (possibly requiring AE) and Force Wall, with appropriate adders or advantages to allow it to be of variable shape (by that I mean not just variable shape of area coverage, but literally, to form a chair, a bridge, or any other object).

 

This allows you to create Force Wall objects that can exert strength on the world, carrying people over a bridge for instance. This would allow the GL in question to create whatever he wanted with his power and it would have measurable effects in game.

[Red Knight]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

OK.... I spent a while playing with the Entangle as a bridge theory and also the TK as a bridge theory and my own conclusions are ......

I'm going with a Force Wall.

 

As seen in numerous GL books/comics, GL will create a force construct and when it is overloaded it simply shatters.

 

To me force wall makes sense and doesn't require a page full of modifiers. I am going to tack on "Variable FX" to account for the different appearances but that is it.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

To me force wall makes sense and doesn't require a page full of modifiers.

 

It does, however, require you to create some kind of rule for how much Strength a Force Wall has, and then try and think of how to keep people from using that Strength in ways that will break the game.

 

I am not saying that Force Wall is a bad idea. I am just saying that I do not think it is any simpler than, say, area effect Telekinesis, or Flight Usable By Others. It could, potentially, be quite a bit more complicated.

[Red Knight]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

I can see your point about the potential abuse...

 

To be honest, I am torn as to what really is the best way. I calculated TK with area effect and also Force Wall....

 

The draw back to TK is that attacks would not strike the construct, therefore making it nigh indestructible. Other games I have played actually had a "Make object" power that allowed you to craft an object, and the toughness/PD was based on how many points you sunk into it.

 

I fear that I will have to revisit both designs again before I am fully satisfied.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

The draw back to TK is that attacks would not strike the construct' date=' therefore making it nigh indestructible.[/quote']

 

Well, TK is usually opposed with a Strength vs. Strength roll. If you want someone to be able to "attack" the TK to make it go away, you could apply a -1/4 Limitation, "Body rolled from attacks is treated as Body rolled for a Strength vs. Strength roll". And I suppose that the TK effect would have the same DCV as the originating character, plus 2, just like an Accessible Focus, unless it's purchased with Area Effect, in which case it would just be 3. Does that seem fair to you?

[Red Knight]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

OK... I wanted to get the opinion of a gaming guru and so I posted a message to Steve Long..

I wrote:

 

"... how you could create an object in a GL-esque fashion. Specifically, create a bridge... "

 

He replied with this....

 

"I don't generally answer "how to" questions. 5ER 180-81 (and the old Rules FAQ) does have rules for horizontal Force Walls, if those are of any use to you"

 

Horizontal Force Walls..... I guess this sheds some light onto where we shoudl look.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Horizontal Force Walls..... I guess this sheds some light onto where we shoudl look.

 

Have you not been reading the thread? Force Wall is one of the main solutions people have been suggesting.

[Red Knight]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

bblackmoor,

 

Yes I have been reading the thread.. My last post was just to vindicate those of us who belive the Force Wall is the way to go .... My first post indicated that I felt the Force Wall was the ticket... Also the post was to possibly alleviate some back and forth discussion by focusing the discussion on a specific area.

 

 

I guess it didn't come across like I hoped.... My bad.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

My last post was just to vindicate those of us who belive the Force Wall is the way to go...

 

It's a way to go, certainly. Whether it's the way to go depends on the specific character.

[Red Knight]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

It's a way to go' date=' certainly. Whether it's [b']the[/b] way to go depends on the specific character.

 

Very true.. I stand...err... sit corrected...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Very true.. I stand...err... sit corrected...

 

No worries, man. Actually, now I find myself wondering what we are going to find on pages 180-181 of H5R.

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Page 180 of 5ER says "At the GM's option, a character can create a Force Wall with horizontal...orientation. ...If the Force Wall provides PD, it could hold objects (but...should not be allowed...as a cheap substitute for other, mroe appropriate, powers such as Telekinesis, or Flight Usable By Others)." There is also a rule given for determining how much it can hold, what breaking point it has.