Green Lantern Object Creation...

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

There is also a rule given for determining how much it can hold' date=' what breaking point it has.[/quote']

 

The strength it takes to hold someone is applied as an attack against the Force Wall holding the person. If Force Wall break from that amount of strength, the Force Wall breaks from holding that much weight. That's pretty straightforward, and it's how I would handle it, if the situation were to come up in a game.

 

The re-write of Force Wall in H5R is nicely done, by the way. Clear and comprehensive. It still has the "Force Walls have no STR" rule, though, making it uncertain what would happen if someone on the outside tried pushing a Force Wall centered on a character. It'd be silly for them to bounce around like pinballs, so I assume the Force Wall is considered immovable (from the outside) unless it's broken.

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Just a suggestion, but the rules use Transform as a way to create objects. Perhaps this might be of some use?

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Just a suggestion' date=' but the rules use Transform as a way to create objects.[/quote']

 

Personally, and despite the fact that the authors of some of the Hero sourcebooks disagree, I think Transform (like Variable Power Pool) should be the choice of last resort. It's an option, but other options should be explored first, in my opinion.

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

I have really mixed feelings on Transform. The rules on Transforming something to nothing seem too light or open-ended, but then again it's also an area rarely in play. I do think it should generally be a last resort (not necessarily Transforms, but nothing-to-something ones).

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

I do think it should generally be a last resort (not necessarily Transforms' date=' but nothing-to-something ones).[/quote']

 

Right. That's what I meant.

[Rapier]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Personally' date=' and despite the fact that the authors of some of the Hero sourcebooks disagree, I think Transform (like Variable Power Pool) should be the choice of last resort. It's an option, but other options should be explored first, in my opinion.[/quote']

Amen, my brother!!!

 

Every single power/construct/etc in the entire universe can be built as a Transform. Transform is the catch all for powers. For me, Transform is that power that describes atomic level manipulation or a power that is going to take three of four separate powers to build a single effect. If it doesn't fall into one of those categories, you just need to reread some of the powers.

 

I try to stay as far away from Transform as is humanly (or metahumanly) as possible.

 

Everytime I see Transform on a character sheet, I have to suck air through my teeth and pull the old Peter-Griffin-Banging-His-Shin (and if you don't understand the refernce, watch more Adult Swim).

[Kristopher]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Personally, and despite the fact that the authors of some of the Hero sourcebooks disagree, I think Transform (like Variable Power Pool) should be the choice of last resort. It's an option, but other options should be explored first, in my opinion.

 

Agreed.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Page 109 FREd under Entangles. 2nd Col 1st para. It specifically indicates that to make objects such as Bridges' date=' braces, and stairs you should use Transform.[/quote'] I think 5E is referring to a permanent object (since this is a design issue, Steve L. will likely decline to confirm). However, IMHO and depending on the comic era and particular Green Lantern, anything made from green energy can be thought of as a variation of succor (reverse-suppress); only the emergency/personal defenses of the ring-bearer seem to violate this principle. Even Entangles could be bought with a limitation that they disapear if the ring bearer is knocked out. Note, this is a fundamental difference from objects created by characters like Spider-Man or IceMan which both have environmental time limits (evaporation/melting).

 

There was another thread dealing specificaly with bridges but not necessarily GL constructs (though those were mentioned too) that I believe came to the conclusion that a formula for lifting from the STR chart could be tied to the average BODY damage from same STR to determine the PD defense required to support X weight.

 

EDIT: Transform would be appropriate IF GL used the ring to make giant hands or scoops to physically manipulate the available ground material on hand into a suitable object for the task at hand (Entangle, Bridge, Stairs, etc...).

 

Appologies if anyone else already mentioned these ideas together.

 

HM

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

I think 5E is referring to a permanent object (since this is a design issue' date=' Steve L. will likely decline to confirm). However, IMHO and depending on the comic era and particular Green Lantern, anything made from green energy can be thought of as a variation of succor (reverse-suppress); only the [u']emergency/personal defenses[/u] of the ring-bearer seem to violate this principle. Even Entangles could be bought with a limitation that they disapear if the ring bearer is knocked out. Note, this is a fundamental difference from objects created by characters like Spider-Man or IceMan which both have environmental time limits (evaporation/melting).

 

There was another thread dealing specificaly with bridges but not necessarily GL constructs (though those were mentioned too) that I believe came to the conclusion that a formula for lifting from the STR chart could be tied to the average BODY damage from same STR to determine the PD defense required to support X weight.

 

EDIT: Transform would be appropriate IF GL used the ring to make giant hands or scoops to physically manipulate the available ground material on hand into a suitable object for the task at hand (Entangle, Bridge, Stairs, etc...).

 

Appologies if anyone else already mentioned these ideas together.

 

HM

Hmmm, though another implication of your note is that actually it's just TK (which is a big part of the ring, anyway) applied to create a bridge or such with the available material. A little round-about in one sense (as technically that's just SFX) but actually I think that's more appropriate to actually do it that way as it builds in the appropriate limitation that the raw materials are required (if it's done that way).

 

GL question - did he ever build anything permanent/enduring with the green ring? I don't think he did?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

...snip...

 

GL question - did he ever build anything permanent/enduring with the green ring? I don't think he did?

Yes,

I have old JLA and GL comics with Hal Jordan where did so quite frequently. But as stated by others, it might require a combination of powers to create the effect properly in HERO since he also created a platforms/globes to help transport his non-flying teamates on occasion. Since movement via TK is technically limited to the throwing distance based on the TK STR it could reasonably be argued that he actually was creating a Force Wall in either the shape of a platform or Globe AND he was using TK to lift the platform/globe and its occupants AND he was using Flight usable on others (with a high multiple mass) all at the same time.

 

 

• The FW defense termines what damage is necessary to destroy the construct.
  
• The TK STR determines how much mass can be supported.
  
• The Flight usable on others determines the actual flight speed.
  
• And we haven't even mentioned Life Support usable on others via the Force Globe yet!
  

A Very Very cludgy way to build the effect. Adders to FW would fall in line with other constructs in HERO in a much nicer way IMO.

 

HM

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

I don't think GL could create anything permanent out of ring energy, but he could use the ring energy to rearrange matter. John Stewart enclosed a bomb that destroyed a city block, and used the opportunity to "rebuild" the crumbling tenements (minus rats, roaches and crumbling ceilings) in his first JLA appearance.

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Thanks for the info, Hyper-man. Tough to build, but a lot of the Silver Age stuff is as some of it is so "big".

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

I don't think GL could create anything permanent out of ring energy' date=' but he could use the ring energy to rearrange matter. John Stewart enclosed a bomb that destroyed a city block, and used the opportunity to "rebuild" the crumbling tenements (minus rats, roaches and crumbling ceilings) in his first JLA appearance.[/quote']

Actually, he created a semi-permanent effect everytime he used a ring energy entangle which would linger after created. Putting chains around the arms of a villain for instance. Once it was done he did not have to maintain a beam of energy from the ring to the construct. As long as he was conscious the entangle construct would stay in effect until the rings 24 hour charge ran out.

 

Anyway, a more modern example would be the GL from Kingdom Come who had an Emerald City floating in orbit. He was not concentrating 24/7 to maintain that construct was he?

 

HM

[Kristopher]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Actually, he created a semi-permanent effect everytime he used a ring energy entangle which would linger after created. Putting chains around the arms of a villain for instance. Once it was done he did not have to maintain a beam of energy from the ring to the construct. As long as he was conscious the entangle construct would stay in effect until the rings 24 hour charge ran out.

 

Anyway, a more modern example would be the GL from Kingdom Come who had an Emerald City floating in orbit. He was not concentrating 24/7 to maintain that construct was he?

 

Thus illustrating one of the prime difficulties of converting comic book characters into game characters. Continuity and consistency are dirty words in the comic book industry, and different writers will go off in wildly different directions with the same character.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Actually' date=' he created a semi-permanent effect everytime he used a ring energy [u']entangle[/u] which would linger after created. Putting chains around the arms of a villain for instance. Once it was done he did not have to maintain a beam of energy from the ring to the construct. As long as he was conscious the entangle construct would stay in effect until the rings 24 hour charge ran out.

 

Operative term "until his 24 hours ran out". But yeah, he could certainly create some 0 END items. My recollection is that they faded out if (as you said) his 24 hours were up, or if he was KO'd.

 

I was looking at the suggestion of permanent change, however, which I read to mean surviving if the ring loses power and/or GL is taken out.

 

Anyway' date=' a more modern example would be the GL from [u']Kingdom Come[/u] who had an Emerald City floating in orbit. He was not concentrating 24/7 to maintain that construct was he?

 

Kingdom Come involved considerable character evolution. I don't recall seeing what would have happened if GL had been KO'd or his ring charge ran out, but he didn't need to spend time focusing to keep the city up there.

[Tamashii2000]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Operative term "until his 24 hours ran out". But yeah, he could certainly create some 0 END items. My recollection is that they faded out if (as you said) his 24 hours were up, or if he was KO'd.

 

I was looking at the suggestion of permanent change, however, which I read to mean surviving if the ring loses power and/or GL is taken out.

 

 

 

Kingdom Come involved considerable character evolution. I don't recall seeing what would have happened if GL had been KO'd or his ring charge ran out, but he didn't need to spend time focusing to keep the city up there.

 

Kyle the current (soon I suspect to be the ex) Green lantern can in fact create object that stick around even after his ring runs out of power (his ring for those who don't know is the 'last green lantern' ring created, out of the ruins of the central battery, it doesn't have the yellow or 24 hour limits.

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Kyle the current (soon I suspect to be the ex) Green lantern can in fact create object that stick around even after his ring runs out of power (his ring for those who don't know is the 'last green lantern' ring created' date=' out of the ruins of the central battery, it doesn't have the yellow or 24 hour limits.[/quote']

How does it run out of power then?

[Tamashii2000]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

How does it run out of power then?

 

The length of the charge on Kyle's ring depends on how long he kept it pressed to the Lantern the last time he powered it and exactly what he is using it for. When he first got the ring (given to him by a guardian who basicly said.. Here use this..you will have to do.. then vanished) he didn't have a lantern to charge it with..and the inital charge lasted (As far as I can tell) for at last 2 months. If he does somethign 'Big' making an object that doesn't go away, stopping a sun from exploding, making a planet (he has in fact..done all these things...) then the charge runs out much much faster.

 

Now the old rings (which were supposed to be all destroyed when the Guardians planet when boom but of coarse..have shown back up again..thanks to time traveling) still have all the old weaknesses.

 

Idealy..they shouldn't work at all as the main power battery was absorbed and destroyed by Hal Jordan before he became the specter... coarse now they are busy making Hal back into a lantern..thats went out the window...

 

 

And yes.. i am THAT big a lantern freak...

[logomancer]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Technically, a Green Lantern Power Ring would do ANYTHING that someone willed it to do, so the effects are left up to the imagination. Over the course of the comics, Green Lantern's have done some pretty freaky things, including creating pure-energy constructs that were temporary, permanent, semi-permanent, etc.; to rearranging matter; to time-travel; FTL; co-location; and...oh...collapsing the space-time continuum in on itself (Parallax did that with the Central Power Battery he absorbed in the Zero Hour miniseries).

 

This, of course, defies codification in Hero System rules (or any game system). Generally, you have to pick the "basics" -- flight, force field, TK-Frc Wall-Entagle energy constructs (however you build it), FTL, etc. -- that your character likes and build those.

 

As someone else said in the thread, that's the problem with turning ANY comic character into a Hero System PC, there's always stuff that gets left out. I mean, Superman, Firestorm, Rogue, etc. all have the same issues -- powers that don't cleanly come over into rules.

 

Just choose what you "need" to have fun and go with that!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

The length of the charge on Kyle's ring depends on how long he kept it pressed to the Lantern the last time he powered it and exactly what he is using it for.

 

To abbreviate, "writer fiat" (which was all "has 24 hours passed yet", or even "is it yellow" really was anyway).

[Lupus]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Kingdom Come involved considerable character evolution. I don't recall seeing what would have happened if GL had been KO'd or his ring charge ran out' date=' but he didn't need to spend time focusing to keep the city up there.[/quote']

If I remember, he'd internalised his lantern somehow. Merged with it, or something like that. It wasn't in the main text, but rather in the group shots at the back (the identification key with the one-line descriptions). I'm not sure at that point if he HAD any need to recharge. O_O

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Technically, a Green Lantern Power Ring would do ANYTHING that someone willed it to do, so the effects are left up to the imagination. Over the course of the comics, Green Lantern's have done some pretty freaky things, including creating pure-energy constructs that were temporary, permanent, semi-permanent, etc.; to rearranging matter; to time-travel; FTL; co-location; and...oh...collapsing the space-time continuum in on itself (Parallax did that with the Central Power Battery he absorbed in the Zero Hour miniseries).

 

This, of course, defies codification in Hero System rules (or any game system). Generally, you have to pick the "basics" -- flight, force field, TK-Frc Wall-Entagle energy constructs (however you build it), FTL, etc. -- that your character likes and build those.

 

As someone else said in the thread, that's the problem with turning ANY comic character into a Hero System PC, there's always stuff that gets left out. I mean, Superman, Firestorm, Rogue, etc. all have the same issues -- powers that don't cleanly come over into rules.

 

Just choose what you "need" to have fun and go with that!

I thought the ring had some ability to resist overt evil? And to Tamashii2000, thanks very much for the detailed answer.

[zornwil]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

To abbreviate' date=' "writer fiat" (which was all "has 24 hours passed yet", or even "is it yellow" really was anyway).[/quote']

Yeah, I'm not questioning it plays out like that in writing, but at least this explanation can be translated into gaming terms.

 

The "what is yellow" thing cracked me up, it seemed like an obvious "oh, crap, we really shouldn't have picked something so freaking common and now it's too late!"

[Tamashii2000]

Re: Green Lantern Object Creation...

 

Yeah, I'm not questioning it plays out like that in writing, but at least this explanation can be translated into gaming terms.

 

The "what is yellow" thing cracked me up, it seemed like an obvious "oh, crap, we really shouldn't have picked something so freaking common and now it's too late!"

 

 

The first Green Lantern (Alan Scott) had a worse weaknes. It was wood, anything wooden couldnt' be affected by the ring. First time he used it he took on several gangster types, scared the tar out of them with his ability to ignore thier guns.. then got taken out when one of the gangsters grabbed a chunk of driftwood and hit him with it......