Cheesy diceroll advantages

[Eodin]

Somewhat cheesy,

but what about this:

DRM (Die Roll Mins)...

For a +1/2 Advantage, all 1s and 2s are converted to 3s

For a +3/4 Advantage, all 1s, 2s, and 3s are converted to 4s

For a +1 Advantage, all 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s are converted to 5s.

It's like buying extra dice, only to raise the minimum damage. Notice that I purposely did not make any conversion to 6s. The idea is for those weapons where you don't want to use SE, but damage from even a glancing blow is not to be sneezed at. The numbers work out close to buying extra dice with a proper limitation.

 

Be kind

[CDad]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

I had a player once that must have bought that power - he kept trying to "sneakily change his 1s and 2s to 6s when nobody was lookin". Shoulda made him buy an advantage instead of constantly have him re-roll!

 

I wonder how much extra time it will add to combat?

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

I'd just use standard effect for this, honestly. Apply it to only part of the power and you get the effect you want. Also, the advantages will slow things down a lot during combat, since it makes counting harder.

 

That said, it doesn't look all that bad in terms of potential abuse, at least not more so than advantage stacking is normally abusive. However, without advantages, it's much worse. IE, 6d6 with the +1 averages 31 Stun, as compared to 12d6 averaging 42 (or 36 with Standard Effect). It also drops the BODY damage like a rock.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

Somewhat cheesy,

but what about this:

DRM (Die Roll Mins)...

For a +1/2 Advantage, all 1s and 2s are converted to 3s

 

60 AP = 12d6 = 42 average Stun and 12 average BOD.

 

No +1/4 for 1's become 2's? 60/1.25 = 9.5 d6. Average STUN 35, average BOD 11

 

60/1.5 = 40 = 8d6. Average STUN = 32; average BOD = 9.33

 

9.5d6 with 1's and 2's restated would be 39 average STUN, 11 average BOD. That would seem fair for +1/4.

 

For a +3/4 Advantage' date=' all 1s, 2s, and 3s are converted to 4s[/quote']

 

Average per die now 1.17 BOD, 4.5 STUN. 8d6 would average 36 Stun, 9.33 BOD. Seems fair for +1/2, rather than +3/4.

 

 

For a +1 Advantage' date=' all 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s are converted to 5s.[/quote']

 

Average 5 1/6 Stun, 1 1/6 BOD per die. 7d6 = 36 1/6 average STUN and 8 1/6 BOD. At +3/4, 60 AP = 60/1.75 = 34.29, so call that a +3/4 advantage.

 

For all = 6, +1 would get you 6d6, for 36 STUN and 12 BOD standard effect. That's the same as 12d6 Standard Effect, so +1 seems fair.

 

So, when you asked us to be kind, were you expecting suggestions to reduce the advantage?

 

Of course, if you're loading the attack down with more advantages, the results will start to skew. Maybe Gary will write us up a spreadsheet. I'm inclined to agree with just having some or all dice "standard effect".

[BNakagawa]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

By itself - not worth the points. In combinations with other advantages like NND, area effect, autofire etc, probably worth it.

 

60 ap NND area effect : 4d6 averaging 14 stun.

 

60 ap NND area effect, +1 advantage for no rolls under 5: 3d6, averaging 15+stun

 

Is it better? Yes. A lot better? no.

 

Also, the cheap version would be very useful for powers where the body rolled is important (entangles, penetrating attacks etc)

 

Also unresolved: how does this power work in conjunction with KAs? Does this apply to the stun modifier?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

How much of an advantage would it be for "to hit" rolls or skill rolls--i.e.,

"all 6s become 5s", "all 5s and 6s become 4s", etc.

That seems like it'd be worth at least double, since it could equate to "never misses" or "never fails".

I know there's an inherent inertia both in the system and the people who play it against having absolutes.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

You can get a similar effect under the rules by simply making the attack a killing attack (low dice) and going NUTS with increased stun multiple.

 

Short Bow's "Pain Arrow" is like that. 1d6 RKA +6 STUN multiple.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

true, but there is no such advantage that works on anything but KAs.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

true' date=' but there is no such advantage that works on anything but KAs.[/quote']

 

But at that LEVEL of attack it has an average body of 3.5. It might be based on a killing attack, but it is an obvious stun attack.

 

Since, the minimum effect is 1 body, 6 stun.

The maximum effect is 6 body, 66 STUN

The average effect is 3 or 4 body and 30 STUN.

[Kristopher]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

Someone already pointed it out, but I think it bears repeating: if you have a power where the BODY rolled matters, the "1s become 2s" version is quite potent.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

Someone already pointed it out' date=' but I think it bears repeating: if you have a power where the BODY rolled matters, the "1s become 2s" version is quite potent.[/quote']

 

It prevents rolling 0 BOD on a die. That increases the average BOD from 1 per die to 1 1/6 per die. [i'm assuming it doesn't mean a roll of 1 BOD, a 2-5 on the d6, becomes 2 BOD] This is less than a 1/4 increase, so a normal attack of the same AP (eg. 12d6 for 60 points; average 12 BOD) will do more BOD on average than an attack with a +1/4 advantage that can't roll a 1 (48 poinst x 1.25 = 60; 9.5 d6 will average; average 11 BOD).

[Blue]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

If a player came to me and asked me for such an advantage, I'd decline it. I guess I'm old-fashioned. I like a 1-6 variance. I like there being more question as to whether it's going to be a good hit or not. with 3-6, you're assured of much better chance of doing the same damage each time, which strikes me as very un-RPG like. It's kind of why I don't use the "standard result" feature and make everything a "3" on the die.

 

And I'd be required then to use it on a few villains. And the heroes would hate the results.

[Kristopher]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

It prevents rolling 0 BOD on a die. That increases the average BOD from 1 per die to 1 1/6 per die. [i'm assuming it doesn't mean a roll of 1 BOD, a 2-5 on the d6, becomes 2 BOD] This is less than a 1/4 increase, so a normal attack of the same AP (eg. 12d6 for 60 points; average 12 BOD) will do more BOD on average than an attack with a +1/4 advantage that can't roll a 1 (48 poinst x 1.25 = 60; 9.5 d6 will average; average 11 BOD).

 

I guess I'm biased by my typical luck rolling damage dice in Champs. Taking the 1s off a roll for effect on Flash, or the BODY on normal damage, or whatever, seems quite effective to me.

[Eodin]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

I don't see it as any more harmful than say, doubly armor-piercing or doubly-penetrating, or piercing AND armor-piercing. But the combat-lag time in calculating it does concern me.

What I was trying to do was simulate some of the Diab/HF weapons where there is a magical minimum amount of damage, but no change to the maximum. If I go with SE, that affects both the minimum and the maximum. Hmmm....

[BNakagawa]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

If that's the goal, then perhaps we're going about it the wrong way.

 

Perhaps the best solution is to add extra dice with appropriate limitations.

 

Perhaps they're local - 6s become 5s or 5s and 6s become 4s.

 

Perhaps they're global - do not add in damage if the base damage roll is higher than average...

 

I dunno. I just don't want to see any more advantages that monkey with damage rolls...they smell too much of cheese for my tastes.

[Max Faraday]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

I wouldn't allow this either. IMO roll for a number between 1 or 6 or use the standard effects rule for a 3. If you want a power that does a lot of damage even on a glancing blow, just add more dice are make it AP.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

2 dice of SER = 1 maximized dice. IOW:

 

10d6 Energy Blast - 10-60 STUN

9d6 Energy Blast + 2d6 Standard Effect - 15-60 STUN

8d6+4d6 SER = 20-60

etc.

 

This is the simplest and least abusable way to do it.

[Eodin]

Re: Cheesy diceroll advantages

 

Yep, like I did with phasers, SE + regular is going to have to be the way to go. Gonna make building the swords in Hero Designer fun though - compound powers, STR Mins, etc.