Sort of 'Mind control' help!

[Static UK]

I know it's been a while, but it's been a real busy four or five months. I'm hoping to mine the great collective Hero-mind for a way of doing this:-

 

I'm introducing King Arthur to my Champions campaign (based in England), but he is actually a DEMON pawn. They want to take control of the country because they believe a great power is soon to arrive there and they want to facilitate an easy arrival (that great power will be Tyrannon's avatars).

 

Currently the PC's are out of the country and I've been feeding them news reports about what is going on in Merry Olde England.

 

What I have started happening in the campaign is that people are 'becoming believers'. Military personnel have began going AWOL and joining his group of supporters. Members of the public are also flocking to his support. Members of Parliament are beginning to offer support (generally more secretly), and now, even super beings are beginnng to voice their support. The group is peaceful, and Arthur has stated that he will not take control of the country as that would be wrong and that eventually the country will accept him as their leader naturally.

 

What the PC's haven't realised yet is that none of the superbeings that have come to support Arthur are psychics, mystics, or non-Earth originating beings (aliens and parallel Earth's).

 

I know there is no real reason to worry over the powers construct itself, but I am intersted in working out how it would look. I see it as a cumulative mind control (possibly a transformation?) that only begins to work within sight of the character, even if that is over a TV link, but it is long lasting. I'm leaning towards a verbal rather than telepathic trigger for the power. Those with psychic and mental powers take longer to succumb, non-campaign Earth originating characters also take longer. But the effects are confined to those that are British or want to be British. So foreign nationals in Britain would be immune to the effects of the power, but immigrants would be affected, even if they take longer. I also want the power to be invisible, as I wouldn't want it to be discovered too quickly.

 

He will eventually be caught out, possibly by the arrival of the real King Arthur, and those heroes that prove to be resillient to the power (ie some key NPC's of my choosing and at least one PC :-) )

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

If you want to consider something a little different than Mind Control, what about something like this...

 

Cost Power END 28 Lower Resistance To His Message: Drain EGO 2d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (18" Radius; +1), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Continuous (+1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Year; +2 1/2); Gradual Effect (1 Day; -1 3/4), Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), Only vs. British or British-Wannabes (-1), Must See/Hear "King Arthur" In Order To Be Affected (-1), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Lowered EGO Only Makes It More Difficult To Resist "King Arthur" (-1/4) 0 13 Lower Resistance To His Message: Drain PRE 1d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Continuous (+1), Area Of Effect (18" Radius; +1 1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Year; +2 1/2); Gradual Effect (1 Day; -1 3/4), Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), Only vs. British or British-Wannabes (-1), Must See/Hear "King Arthur" In Order To Be Affected (-1), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Linked To EGO Drain (-1/2), Lowered EGO Only Makes It More Difficult To Resist "King Arthur" (-1/4) 0 17 Lead The "True Believers": +30 PRE; Does Not Defend Against PRE Attacks (-1/2), Only Applies Against A Given Target To A Maximum Of 5x The Amount of PRE or EGO They've Lost To "King Arthur" (-1/4) Powers Cost: 58

 

That's a lot of stuff... let's look at it a bit at a time.

 

The basic idea is that he leads via PRE (Oratory, Persuasion, PRE Attacks, etc.) rather than Mind Control. Since PRE Attacks are resisted by EGO or PRE (whichever is better), his first two Powers (the linked Drains) reduce both EGO and PRE by roughly the same amount (since EGO costs twice as much as PRE). Then, having lowered their resistance, he also magnifies his importance in the eyes of his believers, via extra PRE in the amount of 5x what they've lost in EGO or PRE (whichever is more). Since this is largely an EGO and PRE Drain, mentalists and mystics are less affected because they're more likely to have Mental DEF, and more likely to have high EGO and/or PRE to start with. So even if he does affect them, they can better withstand the effect than most folks.

 

Here are notes on some of the particulars. First the Advantages:

• Penetrating means that even those with Mental DEF can be whittled down over time.
  
• The MegaScale Area of Effect is just about large enough to be global, making it potentially possible for him to affect anyone (though subject to the restrictions described below).
  
• Based On ECV makes it work vs. Mental DEF, and Invisible Power Effects makes it, well, invisible.
  
• He's immune to the effect of the Drains (Personal Immunity)
  
• It's Continuous, so he doesn't have to keep making attack rolls while speaking.
  
• It only returns 5 points per Year, so it won't wear off before his nefarious plans come to fruition.

Now the Limitations...

• It takes at least a minute or so before he can affect someone. Him saying hello to you as you pass on the street won't enthrall you, but listening to any real communication from him will. (Extra Time)
  
• The targets' PRE and EGO don't instantly drop... they're converted gradually over a day or so. (Gradual Effect)
  
• The "Only vs. British and British Wannabes" may seem like it's overvalued at -1 (considering that he's in Britain), but remember that he could technically affect anyone in the world, so this actually is cutting down his "target audience" quite a bit.
  
• It only affects people who actually see/hear him. Everyone isn't affected just by being in the Area of Effect.
  
• Incantations - He has to talk you into all this.
  
• The lowering of EGO/PRE is only in regards to "King Arthur." It doesn't lower your resistance to anyone else.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

While I respect Derek's understanding of the system, and his construct is certainly clever and mechanically sound, personally I would just do this as a huge boost to "King Arthur's" Presence, Only Vs. British, Only To Persuade. Alternatively you could give him a large number of Skill Levels with appropriate Interaction Skills and that "OVB" Limitation.

 

Presence isn't an END-using Power, so it's innately Invisible as far as the game definition goes (although of course the source and effects are immediately known). There's no real reason why Presence Attacks, Oratory or Persuasion shouldn't work on anyone who sees and hears Arthur, so they could be just as effective over television broadcasts. Long-term effects of Presence Attacks can last as long as the GM deems appropriate (I checked with Steve Long about this once on the Rules forum).

 

YMMV, of course.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

Oh, sure, LL. Just do away with the utterly unnecessary part of my needlessly baroque construct, why don'cha??

[Silbeg]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

Both of these assume that the targets are able to become willing converts. Derek, your construct is fantabulous, but perhaps overly complicated? Don't know, and am not really planning on analyzing it that much.

 

What about the following:

33:   Major Transform 2d6 (Devout Follower of "King Arthur"), 
       Requires An Oratory Roll  (No Active Point penalty to 
       Skill Roll; +0), Partial Transform (+1/2), 
       Reduced  Endurance (0 END; +1/2), 
       Area Of Effect (15" Radius; +1), 
       BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), 
       MegaArea (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Continuous (+1) 
       (180 Active Points); 
       Gradual Effect (1 Hour; -1 1/4), 
       Limited Power Target must be able to see and
         hear "King Arthur" (-1), 
       Extra Time (1 Minute, Only to Activate, -3/4), 
       No Range (-1/2), 
       Limited Target (Those of English Descent; -1/2), 
       Incantations, throughout (-1/4)

This has much of the scaling efforts that Derek's stuff has, as well as the delayed effect ("You know, now that I think about it, he is right about everything!").

 

Gives the huge scale (at 15,000km, he should be able to affect anyone on the earth, I believe).

 

Note that I stated of "English" descent, rather than British. Maybe better would be "Briton" descent, which would designate (I believe) pre-Anglo-Saxon invasion English descent. However, I couln't see the Scots, Welsh, Irish, etc., following him. I could be wrong, but you can change the definition as you see fit!

 

Healing back could happen naturally... but if he has a nightly TV show, or whatever, the effect could get refreshed. So, over time, someone could come out of the control.

 

Meeting the real King Arthur would also probably be a cure (and would probably grant immunity to this power).

 

So, what do y'all think?

 

post number 300!!! W00t! Had to make it a good one... hope I succeeded.

[Static UK]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

If you want to consider something a little different than Mind Control, what about something like this...

 

That's a lot of stuff... let's look at it a bit at a time.

 

The basic idea is that he leads via PRE (Oratory, Persuasion, PRE Attacks, etc.) rather than Mind Control. Since PRE Attacks are resisted by EGO or PRE (whichever is better), his first two Powers (the linked Drains) reduce both EGO and PRE by roughly the same amount (since EGO costs twice as much as PRE). Then, having lowered their resistance, he also magnifies his importance in the eyes of his believers, via extra PRE in the amount of 5x what they've lost in EGO or PRE (whichever is more). Since this is largely an EGO and PRE Drain, mentalists and mystics are less affected because they're more likely to have Mental DEF, and more likely to have high EGO and/or PRE to start with. So even if he does affect them, they can better withstand the effect than most folks.

 

Here are notes on some of the particulars. First the Advantages:

• Penetrating means that even those with Mental DEF can be whittled down over time.
  
• The MegaScale Area of Effect is just about large enough to be global, making it potentially possible for him to affect anyone (though subject to the restrictions described below).
  
• Based On ECV makes it work vs. Mental DEF, and Invisible Power Effects makes it, well, invisible.
  
• He's immune to the effect of the Drains (Personal Immunity)
  
• It's Continuous, so he doesn't have to keep making attack rolls while speaking.
  
• It only returns 5 points per Year, so it won't wear off before his nefarious plans come to fruition.

Now the Limitations...

• It takes at least a minute or so before he can affect someone. Him saying hello to you as you pass on the street won't enthrall you, but listening to any real communication from him will. (Extra Time)
  
• The targets' PRE and EGO don't instantly drop... they're converted gradually over a day or so. (Gradual Effect)
  
• The "Only vs. British and British Wannabes" may seem like it's overvalued at -1 (considering that he's in Britain), but remember that he could technically affect anyone in the world, so this actually is cutting down his "target audience" quite a bit.
  
• It only affects people who actually see/hear him. Everyone isn't affected just by being in the Area of Effect.
  
• Incantations - He has to talk you into all this.
  
• The lowering of EGO/PRE is only in regards to "King Arthur." It doesn't lower your resistance to anyone else.

 

WOW! That is one well thought out power description. I can't really find any reason to disagree or dislike this idea. It is similar to the Transform idea I was having, but a little more expensive, but I like it better all the same. I particularly like the way you explained the reasoning behind the various pieces, thanks.

[Static UK]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

While I respect Derek's understanding of the system, and his construct is certainly clever and mechanically sound, personally I would just do this as a huge boost to "King Arthur's" Presence, Only Vs. British, Only To Persuade. Alternatively you could give him a large number of Skill Levels with appropriate Interaction Skills and that "OVB" Limitation.

 

Presence isn't an END-using Power, so it's innately Invisible as far as the game definition goes (although of course the source and effects are immediately known). There's no real reason why Presence Attacks, Oratory or Persuasion shouldn't work on anyone who sees and hears Arthur, so they could be just as effective over television broadcasts. Long-term effects of Presence Attacks can last as long as the GM deems appropriate (I checked with Steve Long about this once on the Rules forum).

 

YMMV, of course.

 

Thanks for your idea. But, sorry, this isn't what I was really looking for. I actually need it to be power based so that ultimately someone will realise that people are being manipulated and can devise a way to counteract it. Ultimately I'm planning on one of the British based mystics to figure it out and then try to persude the PC's to help combat it. As the PC's have out of the country for a while, they won't have been so heavily affected by Arthurs 'message'.

 

Again thanks.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

While I respect Derek's understanding of the system, and his construct is certainly clever and mechanically sound, personally I would just do this as a huge boost to "King Arthur's" Presence, Only Vs. British, Only To Persuade. Alternatively you could give him a large number of Skill Levels with appropriate Interaction Skills and that "OVB" Limitation.

 

Presence isn't an END-using Power, so it's innately Invisible as far as the game definition goes (although of course the source and effects are immediately known). There's no real reason why Presence Attacks, Oratory or Persuasion shouldn't work on anyone who sees and hears Arthur, so they could be just as effective over television broadcasts. Long-term effects of Presence Attacks can last as long as the GM deems appropriate (I checked with Steve Long about this once on the Rules forum).

 

YMMV, of course.

One more point to make in support of the PRE attack only method...

 

Just how heroic is Mind Control?

 

HM

[Static UK]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

This has much of the scaling efforts that Derek's stuff has' date=' as well as the delayed effect ("You know, now that I think about it, he is right about [i']everything[/i]!").

 

Gives the huge scale (at 15,000km, he should be able to affect anyone on the earth, I believe).

 

Note that I stated of "English" descent, rather than British. Maybe better would be "Briton" descent, which would designate (I believe) pre-Anglo-Saxon invasion English descent. However, I couln't see the Scots, Welsh, Irish, etc., following him. I could be wrong, but you can change the definition as you see fit!

 

Healing back could happen naturally... but if he has a nightly TV show, or whatever, the effect could get refreshed. So, over time, someone could come out of the control.

 

Meeting the real King Arthur would also probably be a cure (and would probably grant immunity to this power).

 

So, what do y'all think?

 

post number 300!!! W00t! Had to make it a good one... hope I succeeded.

 

Yup Derek does seem to get it right most of the time.

Your idea is very similar to my initial layout of the power, but I still kinda like Derek's version!

Yes I did notice your 'English' bit, but I'm kinda casting the net a little wider. I have actually decided that the Scot's will take longer to come around (the PC's haven't noticed that the Scottish born Scotish-based heroes have not come out in support of Arthur yet). The Welsh are more enthusiastic than the Scots as the legend has a foot in Welsh myth, especially with regard to Merlin (he may be Welsh, depending on which version of the myth you like). Although Merlin is not with Arthur, his mystic companion/ advisor, Avalon, is alleged to be a descendant of Merlin.

And yes, when the real Arthur arrives certain people will recognise who is is immediately (patriots, mystics, and good-intentioned/ honest people), he will have a similar ability to the false Arthur, but it will have to overcome the 'drain/ transformation' effects of the faux-Arthur before he can win over the population.

Thanks for your ideas, too.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

Just how heroic is Mind Control?

Doesn't matter... this isn't for a hero.

[Static UK]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

One more point to make in support of the PRE attack only method...

 

Just how heroic is Mind Control?

 

HM

 

That's the point, this is a false, DEMON sponsored Arthur, he isn't actually heroic at the end of the day. He will be helping to make Tyrannons impending arrival easier. So the power not being heroic won't bother them in the slightest!

 

The real Arthur will be along in due time...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

Thanks for your idea. But, sorry, this isn't what I was really looking for. I actually need it to be power based so that ultimately someone will realise that people are being manipulated and can devise a way to counteract it. Ultimately I'm planning on one of the British based mystics to figure it out and then try to persude the PC's to help combat it. As the PC's have out of the country for a while, they won't have been so heavily affected by Arthurs 'message'.

 

Again thanks.

 

You're welcome. You should of course use what works for you. I'll just point out that increased PRE could be the result of mystic tampering, and be detectable as such by those with appropriate abilities. The boost could also be the result of Aid or Succor applied to PRE, falling under the heading of "Power based."

 

Again, though, it's your campaign and you should go with what feels right.

[OddHat]

Re: Sort of 'Mind control' help!

 

Thanks for your idea. But, sorry, this isn't what I was really looking for. I actually need it to be power based so that ultimately someone will realise that people are being manipulated and can devise a way to counteract it. Ultimately I'm planning on one of the British based mystics to figure it out and then try to persude the PC's to help combat it. As the PC's have out of the country for a while, they won't have been so heavily affected by Arthurs 'message'.

 

Again thanks.

 

It's still mechanically simpler to give him ExtraPre, considered a power from a special effects POV. It does exactly what you want with no system gymnastics required.