Need help on Aborting An Action

[cerebrolator]

Today I ran across a situation I didn't really know how to adjudicate. I could use some help on this one for future situations.

 

A speedster was making a move by attack on a segment in which his target didn't move. The target aborted and threw up (not the vomit type) a force wall as a defense. Since the speedster was moving so quickly, should he have ran into the force wall (it isn't invisible)? Would he just be able to move around it if he had enough movement? Would he have to abort his action to avoid the force wall?

[CBikle]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

Hmm. This is kind of tricky because,with a move-by, you normally have to plot your movement course ahead of time.

[Edsel]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

Here's how I would have ruled it...

 

I'd say that it would depend on just how fast the runner could stop or turn. I would not force him to run into the force wall as long as he was able to detect that it was there. If his velocity and manuverability force him to cross the hex side with the force wall then he is going to hit it and I'd probably rule that as a move through that automatically hits. If your runner fails to get through, ouch!

 

Now, if he does get through is he still able to attack or will the move through count as an attack and end his action?

 

I'd say if he is able to double the DEF of the forcewall with his forced move through it would be the same as if he'd gotten through it using casual strength and so he could continue his attack. Any other result would finish his action.

 

This solution assumes that the force wall was at least a hex in front of the target. If the target was on the otherside of the hex line, then he'd just add the forcewall to his overall PD.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

This looks like a job for the competing DEX Roll, captain! At least that's how I handle "can you abort in time?" actions.

[Rapier]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

Today I ran across a situation I didn't really know how to adjudicate. I could use some help on this one for future situations.

 

A speedster was making a move by attack on a segment in which his target didn't move. The target aborted and threw up (not the vomit type) a force wall as a defense. Since the speedster was moving so quickly, should he have ran into the force wall (it isn't invisible)? Would he just be able to move around it if he had enough movement? Would he have to abort his action to avoid the force wall?

First off: Force Wall is not technically a defensive maneuver and you can only abort to a defensive maneuver. So would you consider this particular use of FW to be a "defensive maneuver" and are you willinhere g to expand that definition? Personally, I do. However, an aborted FW shouldn't extend beyond the character's hex (or an adjacent hex), this is an abort after all.

 

Secondly: Will you allow an abort to interrupt an action? Sounds like a no-brainer but I've known a couple of GMs in my day that won't allow an abort to interrupt an action.

 

Thirdly (or second and a halfly): When someone is going to abort to interrupt an action it is always a good idea to require a DEX/Lightning Reflex off. If the character doesn't like that idea he should hold a 1/2 phase defensive action. If the aborter wins the DEX off he can interrupt his attack, if he loses his FW comes up but behind the speedster/after the attack.

 

Fourthly: What is your feeling about declared actions. You can rule that once you declare an action you must continue through with it regardless. In this case yon Speedster must MoveThrough the FW and then attack the aborter with another MoveThrough (in this case the MT will be reduced in DCs by the DEF/BODY of the FW). If you got no problem with ad-hoc action changes it shouldn't be any problem for the speedster (given he's got enough extra moves) to move around the FW to continue the attack, but you should probably force him to DEX roll to avoid the FW. If he fails the DEX roll then you need to rule, does he totally hit the FW (then its just like above) or does he trip etc and this hose his entire attack?

 

If this was in my game?

 

1. Aborter aborts his action to pop up a forcewall.

2. Speedster makes a choice through or around.

2a. If Speedster chooses through the aborter can use the DEF+BODY of the FW as additional DEF (possible that the Speedster doesn't do any knockback etc and takes full damage...OW).

2b. If Speedster choses around he makes a DEX roll (or Power Skill roll if SFX appropriate). If he fails the DEX roll hard he stumbles and trips and does a MoveThrough on the ground (face plant). If he only minorly fails he loses his target but doesn't take damage (but continues his movement in the same direction). If he makes the roll (and has enough movement) he avoids the FW and continues his attack as normal (as if no forcewall existed). Keep in mind the FW is still there and maybe he slams the Aborter into the FW or strikes it post-attack himself.

[zornwil]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

This looks like a job for the competing DEX Roll' date=' captain! At least that's how I handle "can you abort in time?" actions.[/quote']

Basically, me, too, as a point of just adding on what people do.

 

I would add that I'd probably do it 2-fold: first DEX-vs-DEX to see if the FW was up in time. Then for the move-through guy, if he fails that, another rol, a PER one actually, to see if he realizes what's happening. If he blows that, he runs into it. If he gets it, I'd let him make a DEX roll, which he should make being a speedster, to not slam into it.

 

If you as a GM virtually always prefer to let a defensive action get done in time, then skip the DEX-vs-DEX roll and I'd go with the last part re the PER roll.

 

That's my off-the-top ruling, without giving it a ton of thought, what I think I'd do in actual gameplay.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

My two cents.....

 

Assuming the Force Wall is opaque and not transparent....or invisible.......

 

If the Force Wall is a complete circle around the projector, it could have a roof (like an igloo) to prevent enemies from above just to shoot down on him. If there is a roof, the speedster could run up and over the force wall completing his move through (without an attack).

 

If there is not a "roof", then the speedster could use Acrobatics skill (if he/she has it) to flip "over" the wall and finish the move through on the projector. The skill rules states the GM could give a +1 to +3 OCv for this maneuver as a huge surprise to the projector!!

 

Now that is Super heroic!!

[cerebrolator]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

The acrobatics manuever is a very cool idea!

 

Thanks to all for the excellent suggestions. All of you make learning this game much more enjoyable.

 

Happy New Year!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

First off: Force Wall is not technically a defensive maneuver and you can only abort to a defensive maneuver.

Force Wall has two functions; one is defensive, the other is an attack.

 

Using a Force Wall to protect oneself is an activation of a Defensive Power and can be Aborted to.

 

Using it to englobe others is an attack and obviously can't be Aborted to.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

First off: Force Wall is not technically a defensive maneuver and you can only abort to a defensive maneuver. So would you consider this particular use of FW to be a "defensive maneuver" and are you willinhere g to expand that definition? Personally' date=' I do. However, an aborted FW shouldn't extend beyond the character's hex (or an adjacent hex), this is an abort after all.[/quote']I run anything that can be used as a Defense as a Defense Power... including, but not limited to: Desol, Shrinking, FW, FF, Armor, Invisibility Density Increase... Each of these either make a character harder to hit, or harder to damage. Aborting to them takes up the character next full phase (or any full or half phase they are holding when they abort), instead of the normal 0 Phase it takes to turn on these Powers.

 

Secondly: Will you allow an abort to interrupt an action? Sounds like a no-brainer but I've known a couple of GMs in my day that won't allow an abort to interrupt an action.

 

Thirdly (or second and a halfly): When someone is going to abort to interrupt an action it is always a good idea to require a DEX/Lightning Reflex off. If the character doesn't like that idea he should hold a 1/2 phase defensive action. If the aborter wins the DEX off he can interrupt his attack, if he loses his FW comes up but behind the speedster/after the attack.

It's my understanding that aborting is designed to interrupt. Any GM who makes a character make a DEX roll to see if their defensive action goes first didn't read the rule that says "defensive actions allways go first." I don't know the page, because my book is still on loan, and I feel so crippled without it!

 

Fourthly: What is your feeling about declared actions. You can rule that once you declare an action you must continue through with it regardless. In this case yon Speedster must MoveThrough the FW and then attack the aborter with another MoveThrough (in this case the MT will be reduced in DCs by the DEF/BODY of the FW). If you got no problem with ad-hoc action changes it shouldn't be any problem for the speedster (given he's got enough extra moves) to move around the FW to continue the attack, but you should probably force him to DEX roll to avoid the FW. If he fails the DEX roll then you need to rule, does he totally hit the FW (then its just like above) or does he trip etc and this hose his entire attack?

 

If this was in my game?

 

1. Aborter aborts his action to pop up a forcewall.

2. Speedster makes a choice through or around.

2a. If Speedster chooses through the aborter can use the DEF+BODY of the FW as additional DEF (possible that the Speedster doesn't do any knockback etc and takes full damage...OW).

2b. If Speedster choses around he makes a DEX roll (or Power Skill roll if SFX appropriate). If he fails the DEX roll hard he stumbles and trips and does a MoveThrough on the ground (face plant). If he only minorly fails he loses his target but doesn't take damage (but continues his movement in the same direction). If he makes the roll (and has enough movement) he avoids the FW and continues his attack as normal (as if no forcewall existed). Keep in mind the FW is still there and maybe he slams the Aborter into the FW or strikes it post-attack himself.

In my game, anyone can abort to a defensive action, so long as they haven't already acted that Segment. In the case of the speedster... unless he's already rolled to hit, he's action hasn't been completed. Since the defender must delcare his abort before the attacker rolls to hit, that means the attacker can still abort.

 

In the case of aborting your movement to avoid a collision, you'll need to find out where the speedster was when the FW went up. Generally, I'd never rule that he was already past it, so I'd take the hexes between the FW and the speedster and make a call, based on the situation. If the speedster has any Unluck, or the defender has any Luck, I roll those. Anything rolled (good for FW and/or bad for speedster), and the closer to the FW the speedster is. If I have nothing else to base it on, I'll have the Speedster make a DEX roll. For every point it's made, it's one Hex he's away from the FW when it goes up. Then it's just a matter of figuring out if he can move around it (which should be easy if he's using Running).

 

I'd like add one thing though... If the speedster decides to abort his movement to move around the FW (or stop in front of it), he can no longer attack anything, even another character that's right there. He's aborted and can only take defensive actions (in this case, nothing more than moving to avoid a collision).

 

Now, if the speedster just went, so!, and crashed right through the FW (or tried to), I'd rule that he's still on target if he gets through. It's the same rull I use for making attacks through walls and such. As long as you can still perceive your target with a targeting sense, you make a normal attack roll. If something's in the way, you'll have to damage it first (this allows shooting through walls). Granted, the defense+body of the something-in-the-way is subtracted from the attack before it's applied to the target though (and is subtracted from the BODY of killing attacks before applying the STUNx).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

My two cents.....

 

Assuming the Force Wall is opaque and not transparent....or invisible.......

 

If the Force Wall is a complete circle around the projector, it could have a roof (like an igloo) to prevent enemies from above just to shoot down on him. If there is a roof, the speedster could run up and over the force wall completing his move through (without an attack).

 

If there is not a "roof", then the speedster could use Acrobatics skill (if he/she has it) to flip "over" the wall and finish the move through on the projector. The skill rules states the GM could give a +1 to +3 OCv for this maneuver as a huge surprise to the projector!!

 

Now that is Super heroic!!

I would rule that if he doesn't stay on his preplanned course, he's effective aborting and can no longer attack. I typically always rule in favor of the defender, and this is one of them. I wouldn't allow a Martial Artist to make a DEX/Fast Draw Roll to still get his Martial Strike around a target's FF as it goes up, and same here.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

Today I ran across a situation I didn't really know how to adjudicate. I could use some help on this one for future situations.

 

A speedster was making a move by attack on a segment in which his target didn't move. The target aborted and threw up (not the vomit type) a force wall as a defense. Since the speedster was moving so quickly, should he have ran into the force wall (it isn't invisible)? Would he just be able to move around it if he had enough movement? Would he have to abort his action to avoid the force wall?

This is how I would have handled it, personally:

 

I would have had the speedster perform their move-thru against the Force Wall. If they failed to break the FW they would take all the damage from the attack since the character is in effect running into a wall. If they broke thru the wall, subtract the FW's PD from the attack's Body and Stun and inflict the remainder on the FW-using the character. Calculate the KB from the BODY that got thru the wall; if this isnt enough to knock the target back then the speedster takes all of the damage that got thru the Force Wall.

 

Example:

WarMan does a move thru on Blackjack. WarMan is flying 10" and does a power dive down to pick up an extra 5" of velocity, for 15" so he is -3 to hit, -3 DCV, and will do 6d6 (30 STR) + 5d6 (15/3) = 11d6.

 

Blackjack has a Lucky Aegis ability defined as an invisible Force Wall dome with 7 DEF that protects 1 hex (2" length), and Aborts to activate it around himself as an "Abort to Activate a Defense Power"

 

War Man rolls to hit and succeeds.

 

He slams into the IPE FW and does 11d6 damage, which rolls out to say 11 BODY and 40 STUN. 11-7 breaks the Force Wall and WarMan passes thru it to impact Blackjack with 4 BODY and 33 STUN. Rolling 2d6 for -6 Knockback, War Man fails to knock Blackjack back or down (4-6 = -2), so he takes 4 BODY and 33 STUN also.

 

If WarMan had rolled (very) poorly, say 6 BODY and 20 STUN, he would have failed to break thru the FW and would have taken all of the damage.

[KA.]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

Today I ran across a situation I didn't really know how to adjudicate. I could use some help on this one for future situations.

 

A speedster was making a move by attack on a segment in which his target didn't move. The target aborted and threw up (not the vomit type) a force wall as a defense. Since the speedster was moving so quickly, should he have ran into the force wall (it isn't invisible)? Would he just be able to move around it if he had enough movement? Would he have to abort his action to avoid the force wall?

 

Something about this thread has been disturbing me, and I think I finally figured out what it is.

There was not a lot of detail in the original question, but this topic in general brings up a Game Philosophy question that I would like to explore.

 

"What is a Defense?"

If it protects you, it is a Defense.

If it damages your Opponent, then it is an Attack.

But what about things that do both?

 

For example,

In the same situation described above:

Player A does not act this segment, Player B is performing a Move-Through.

Would you allow Player A to Abort to a Martial Dodge?

Yes, that is within the rules.

But would you allow Player A to Abort to a Martial Throw?

I mean, that too would seem like it would prevent the damage from the Move-Through, but would it be considered Defensive?

After all, it is also likely to cause great damage to Player B.

I would say, "No. The Rules do not allow you to Abort to an Attack."

 

But how then should the case of the Force Wall be treated?

 

It is really both, in my opinion.

 

Here is what I think, trying to be fair to both sides.

 

1) You can raise a Force Wall as a Defensive Maneuver under these circumstances.

 

a) It must be Visible to the person performing the Move Through.

Putting an Invisible Force Wall in the way of an oncoming Move Through is basically an Attack. If you walk around with one up all the time, or you threw one up last Phase that no one has discovered yet, and someone decides to do a Move Through, that is okay.

But you can't "Abort" to putting one up in front of an oncoming character that is going to hit it blindly, claiming it is Defensive.

 

A Defensive Force Wall (one that you can Abort to) must be put up only across the front face of the hex you are standing in, or in a 1 Hex Globe around you.

There must be room for the oncoming character to go around it.

Since it is a Defense, they must have the option to either go around (thus you are "defended" from their attack) or to try to bull through it (in which case they are responsible for the results).

 

So basically, you can Abort to using your Force Wall in a purely Defensive way, but not to a way that is basically an attack on the oncoming character.

 

That's how I see it anyway.

 

KA.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

Something about this thread has been disturbing me, and I think I finally figured out what it is.

There was not a lot of detail in the original question, but this topic in general brings up a Game Philosophy question that I would like to explore.

 

"What is a Defense?"

If it protects you, it is a Defense.

If it damages your Opponent, then it is an Attack.

But what about things that do both?

 

For example,

In the same situation described above:

Player A does not act this segment, Player B is performing a Move-Through.

Would you allow Player A to Abort to a Martial Dodge?

Yes, that is within the rules.

But would you allow Player A to Abort to a Martial Throw?

I mean, that too would seem like it would prevent the damage from the Move-Through, but would it be considered Defensive?

After all, it is also likely to cause great damage to Player B.

I would say, "No. The Rules do not allow you to Abort to an Attack."

 

But how then should the case of the Force Wall be treated?

 

It is really both, in my opinion.

 

Here is what I think, trying to be fair to both sides.

 

1) You can raise a Force Wall as a Defensive Maneuver under these circumstances.

 

a) It must be Visible to the person performing the Move Through.

Putting an Invisible Force Wall in the way of an oncoming Move Through is basically an Attack. If you walk around with one up all the time, or you threw one up last Phase that no one has discovered yet, and someone decides to do a Move Through, that is okay.

But you can't "Abort" to putting one up in front of an oncoming character that is going to hit it blindly, claiming it is Defensive.

 

A Defensive Force Wall (one that you can Abort to) must be put up only across the front face of the hex you are standing in, or in a 1 Hex Globe around you.

There must be room for the oncoming character to go around it.

Since it is a Defense, they must have the option to either go around (thus you are "defended" from their attack) or to try to bull through it (in which case they are responsible for the results).

 

So basically, you can Abort to using your Force Wall in a purely Defensive way, but not to a way that is basically an attack on the oncoming character.

 

That's how I see it anyway.

 

KA.

 

I agree. I look at it this way: Aborting is panicking. It's not planned, it's something that happens because you got jumpy. It's jumping out of the way of the explosion as it happens, it's ducking the stab of the assassin who attacked you while at lunch, it's putting your arm between you and the big guy who started screaming and trying to jump on you...

 

It's not "I sneer at the explosion and gracefully flip out of the way". It's not "I swiftly move aside as his swing comes down". It's not "I catch the blow on my crossed arms". Those are held actions.

 

So Aborting to a Force Wall isn't "Haha! Gotcha!". It's "Eek! Violence coming my way!".

 

Now, an Invisible Force Wall would definately catch them by surprise, so I might require a PER roll to notice a Visible one, given that they're a bit distracted.

[cerebrolator]

Re: Need help on Aborting An Action

 

There's a lot of good ideas in your answers. I appreciate all of your help. I think that I agree that aborting should only be defensive. I also agree that some defenses are hard to separate from attacks. I'm still undecided on what to do but I have much better information from which to reason next time.