Keeping Healing in Check

[Ner0Sputnik]

OK, I'm going to pick your brains again...

 

One of the reasons I stowed away my D&D books and never looked back was because damage had very little affect on the game. For example. My party went up into the hills of some wild land that hadn't been explored because of the "native wildlife."

 

We ran into a werewolf, didn't have any silver, so we got our butts kicked and returned to town. After a short stop and a few gold spent at the local healers, we were stocking up on silver weapons with all intent of going back and hacking him to bits. It was almost like a video game. Get really hurt, run from combat, go to the healing zone, go back until you beat your foe. I HATED that!

 

My old GM used a system that really made healing rare. He imposed a house rule that any healing spell you administered took that much healing from the person casting the spell. This cut that out... but also left times where someone would take an unlucky head shot from a goblin's short sword and we'd be laid up in town for a month or two waiting for his head to heal.

 

How you do all manage healing in your campaigns? I wouldn't mind a little bit of healing in combat or some healing in town, I just want there to be consequences when someone gets in combat. I feel it really makes the players think twice before launching an assault... and yet I don't want to make them afraid of combat... that's half the fun!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

In my experience, this is a common Fantasy Game schtick.

 

I think the official rules work fairly well. The once per day limit holds daily Healing down to the maximum recoverable from a maximum roll. If you cap healing at, say, 4d6 Standard, no one can get more than 8 BOD back in a given day. Since they have to roll the full BOD in one shot, getting above 5 or 6 is pretty tough.

 

If you want to make Healing less common, consider increasing the "base time" beyond 1 day, either as a default or a mandatory additional limitation on all Healing. The 1 day period is just a suggestion in Fantasy Hero anyway.

 

One suggestion I've seen is that Healing is essentially "borrowing". Assume my character has 6d6 Standard Healing. Yours takes a nasty head shot from a Goblin, and I manage to Heal him for 12 BOD (WOW - that took a lot of rolls or a house rule). Your character has 6 REC.

 

Your character is considered "healed" for 12 BOD, less 1 for every BOD he would have recovered naturally in the intervening time frame. So, after a month, I'd need to roll 7+ BOD on my 6d6 to heal any BOD you have taken in the interim. This strikes a bit of a balance - one unlucky head hit can be healed (or at least partially healed), but it will take a long time to get a second one healed if it happens in the near future.

 

You could also rule against normal Healing, but permit Regeneration UBO (or UAA) with additional Extra Time (eg. can't Heal more than once per day, or once per two days) to get those months down to weeks or days. You could also require the Healing can't exceed the target's REC.

[Outsider]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

The problem with not having fast healing is that you might have a character laid up for a month or two by a lucky hit to the head by a goblin's short sword. While he's laid up, one of three things can happen in your game :

 

1) The rest of the party goes on without him, and one of your players gets to twiddle his thumbs for one or more gaming sessions while his character has nothing more exciting to do than try to pinch the healing acolyte's bum when she comes in to change his bed pan.

 

2) The rest of the party goes on without him, and the player of the injured character runs another character for the time being. Gotta have multiple characters for each player then, because you never know who's gonna get whacked in the head next.

 

3) The rest of the party waits for him to heal, and the entire month in town is probably handled in a 15 minutes of table time, unless you have pre-prepared (or are able to improvise) a number of 'town adventures' just in case of such an eventuality. If the 'town adventure' plan is used, the player of the guy in the hospital bed returns to having options 1) or 2).

 

 

The point of out of combat magical healing seems to me to be to remove one of the things than might otherwise prevent the characters from undertaking heroic ventures when the opportunity presents itself, and thus not delivering fantasy adventure to the players. If you're playing a game that is heavy on 'plumbing' spending 1-3 game sessions in town while someone heals, with the characters interacting in mundane ways with (mostly) friendly NPCs might work for you though.

[Ner0Sputnik]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Damn I feel dumb now. The new healing rules kick @$$! I kinda forgot about them. Have I mentioned it's been a while since I played?

 

thanks!

[Rapier]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

1) As you mentioned the new healing rules are pretty tight.

 

However (hmmmm, guess there is no 2), when we first switched from Champs to Hero we ran into a big problem. Damage HURTS. Your average Champs character almost never takes BODY and if he does its a couple of points per year.

 

We dropped our Champs sensibilities into FH (while wearing some nifty armour and using DCV). Our very first combat the Half-Ogre was 2 BODY away from INSTANT DEATH (-CON) for most of the battle.

 

When we switched to Hero, we had similar problems. People were taking wounds that took 7 weeks to heal. That really puts a damper on your adventuring.

 

Over the past year we have experimented with a couple of things that work to varying degrees. You should try them and just determine which works best for your group.

 

1) Combat Luck: LOVE IT! [two snaps up in a circle] Give a norm a few points of rDEF without wearing armour. Saves some bacon and allows the use of non-rDEF for STUN. Mucho needed to keep people standing.

 

2) The base has a room that is a 'healing room': 4d6 Healing, (-1) Max of double normal healing per day. It can double (or more at your descretion) the amount of healing achieved per day.

 

3) Amulets/Rings/Cloaks/etc with #2 from above.

 

4) Combat Maneuvers. Make everyone take some form of Martial Arts with a weapon element (or barehanded for the monks). It makes sense. Every adventurer should have SOME martial training (unless you want to play the library mage -- aka sage -- in which case you should get pwned in combat). Characters should spend a number of points in maneuvers that concentrate on DCV. One of the main points of adventuring is not to get hurt.

 

5) Combat Levels: Expensive but very versatile. I have two characters that have about 8 Combat Levels between them that have never moved out of DCV. But they could if they want to perform some kind of "sacrifice" maneuver. We refer to Combat Levels (the big ones) as the "poor man's martial arts."

 

6) Defensive actions and partial armour. The Hit Loc Chart doesn't do a very good job of actual portraying the liklihood of hitting a certain body part. The chart doesn't acurately port to body part surface area. Blacky the Elf is wearing some really cherry magical bracers. These bracers are 8 rDEF. TOP NOTCH armour, but they only apply on his forearms. So he defends with his forearms (and all that juicy DEF) waiting for a good moment to strike (see point 7).

 

7) Analyse Style. Normally only of much use against those with a "style." However, ask any martial artist. Any person, trained or not, will fall into patterns (unless actually trained not to...which is a pattern in and of itself). These "patterns" can constitute a style on its own (perhaps it gains a -2 or -3 since it isn't an official style the player could have heard about before or recognise) and would allow a player to make advantageous attacks without sacrificing DCV.

 

All of this boils down to our Rules of Heroic Combat .

 

1) Dont get hit: DCV.

2) If you have to attack chose the most advantageous moment: Analyse Style

3) If you have to get hit, take the hit: Roll with it or take it on a heavily armoured portion.

4) You don't need to actually attack every phase. What counts is not who attacked the most but who is standing at the end.

[Ner0Sputnik]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Some good points there. I definitely intend to do some different things in combat when my new game starts up. Like blocking. Not a lot of people blocked in my old gaming group. It was almost as if they didn't want to upset the "I hack you, you hack me" mentality. (Which, I'm sure, is a carry over from Champions) I watched a two guys playing a duel that was more or less set up like this. One guy would go to hit, the other would block. Finally, the NPC/Enemy missed one and the PC cleaved him stem to stern. It was a lot more dramatic seeing if that next block would hit or miss. The miss was bad.

 

I'm sure when some of my old players watch an orc block for the first time, they're going to need to change their shorts. As it is right now, most every character has some sort of combat level or martial art. OH! And Combat Luck is BRILLIANT! Especially when I got to import my duelist character into 5th Ed. It made him a lot less susceptable to death.

 

Thanks! I love the idea of a healing room or something. Another variation on that (for parties on the road) would be to have the cleric (or whoever) make a magical circle that the guy could be laid in. He has to remain undisturbed or the magic wanes and the healing doesn't work. So, the rest of the party has to watch him overnight... or for a few days or whatever, depending on how bad he was injured.

[Greenstar]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

One thing I had issues with in D-n-D was the "in combat healing" that was due to the spells being so damn fast. So I generally apply a special rule to my healing spell constructs in HERO.

 

1. NO SIMPLIFIED HEALING

2. If the spell heals STUN only, then it can happen as fast as you want it to (noce for certain magic items and such that are meant to keep someone in battle even though bruised and battered)

3. If the heal does anything other than STUN, it requires a minimum of 1 full turn for 1D6 of healing. Every D6 beyond that moves it up the time chart one notch. Thus, the big healing spells take quite a while to cast.

4. Casting a non-STUN-only heal requires Concentration and (usually) Gestures (for laying on of hands).

 

I find this takes care of the insta-heal problem pretty well. Healing potions I require to have the "Gradual Effect" limitation - but they are still popular...and quite expensive

[Trencher]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Don't allow healing spells at all. To avoid the issues outlined above I suggest the following:

 

Don't have more than one fight in every adventure. It can be a really big fight set in an exiting and dangerous location instead. Don't fall into the dnd trap of having to insert a couple of combats here and there in the adventure just to give the adventurers something to do.

 

Also LET there be a couple of months between adventures, beging your descriptions with: Later that winter. as Alcarian’s health steadily improves, and the Ingur-birds returned to their roost at the red towers of Klaa, you get a signed letter from the wizard king of Ylkhammer.

That way you got that epic feel. Why should not healing take long time? Just tell the players that it does them no harm in skipping a couple of months in the game time.

 

In the old Dark champions book there was this optional rule that let players heal up one (and only one) body point per wound if they succeeded with a first aid roll. This way they are not nicked to death.

 

There is no reason in fantasy hero that characters who usually do not wear much armour can not wear a helmet. Solomon kane style was sometimes made with a skullcap incorporated in it. A circlet or king Kull style crown can have a subtle enchantment about it that makes it as efficient as a light helmet. A mysterious character can wear a ornate mask or just a silver blank mirror surface helmet.

Furthermore rec is a stat that can be helped with aid through herbs and potions that you get from your local friendly wise lady. That way healing up a serious wound might not take that long at all.

 

Offcource your players might object to losing healing altogether so I have one final suggestion for you. Keep track of how many wounds and where they are. Then only allow one healing spell on each wound.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

The way I kept it under control when I ran a Fantasy Hero game was that while magical healing was all well and good, it took a lot out of the character being healed -- used the body's resources -- and the body had to "catch up" through time, as if it were healing the wound the old-fashioned way, before it was fully up to snuff again.

 

Maybe an example:

 

A warrior with a CON of 15 and a REC of 8 gets hit for 6 BODY.

 

He gets Healed for that 6 BODY, but:

 

1) He's going to be a little weak for the next 24 hours (-1 CON, -5 STUN and END)

 

2) He's going to have to eat double the usual amount for the next 24 hours

 

3) If he takes BODY damage again before the old wound would have had time to heal "naturally", then he must make a CON roll; if he fails, he takes 1 additional BODY because the old wound is re-opened a bit by the shock of the new damage.

 

4) If he's unlucky enough to be in a no-magic zone, or in an area hit with a Dispel Magic, then there's a good chance the healing magic goes "poof" and any damage that wouldn't have had time to heal back naturally re-appears. (In the example above, suppose 2 weeks had passed since the 6 BODY wound -- that means that 4 BODY would have healed naturally -- and he's caught in a Dispel Magic effect; the remaining 2 BODY that had been healed magically but hadn't had time to to heal 'naturally' would re-appear.)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Also LET there be a couple of months between adventures, beging your descriptions with: Later that winter. as Alcarian’s health steadily improves, and the Ingur-birds returned to their roost at the red towers of Klaa, you get a signed letter from the wizard king of Ylkhammer.

That way you got that epic feel. Why should not healing take long time? Just tell the players that it does them no harm in skipping a couple of months in the game time.

 

And if they only get 4 adventures a year, maybe that Extended Lifespan cost will start to seem a little more reasonable.

[Outsider]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Option 3, then, without the pre-arranged town adventures.

 

Nothing wrong with it, but I see only a little difference between "Poof! You're magically healed!" and "Poof! 3 months have passed and you've healed naturally!" from a play perspective. In either case there isnt necessarily a feeling of being out of action.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Option 3, then, without the pre-arranged town adventures.

 

Nothing wrong with it, but I see only a little difference between "Poof! You're magically healed!" and "Poof! 3 months have passed and you've healed naturally!" from a play perspective. In either case there isnt necessarily a feeling of being out of action.

 

That would be because being out of action sucks. Who wants their PC to be really hurt? I mean, dramatic blood and gore = cool. Actual loss = teh suck.

 

Look, for injuries to both not be all the time, and yet there to be a real risk... ooh, I got it!

 

Have healing be magical and instantaneous... unless they really got the sh*t kicked out of them. Maybe if you go below 0 BODY it's too severe to heal readily with magic (maybe that taxes it's limits). Maybe magic healing needs to be administered with twenty four hours to be effective. (Maybe it works by rewinding your personal time?)

 

That way there's both risk, and a relative lack of boredom.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

In my previous campaigns healing was mostly the purview of the religious cast. They could indeed cast healing 'blessings', but if the recipient was not of the appropriate faith it often had minimal, if any, result. Even so, the players built up a debt (both material and in favors) to the local priesthood, providing me with a great jumping off point for the next adventure ("You receive a message at the inn: it reads, 'The time has come to pay your debt to Pelor', and is signed in the shaky script of the High Precept.")

 

Also, healing potions got expensive the more the players used them.

 

Lastly, mages could cast a healing spell of sorts, but it came at a cost of a CON drain that required a good deal of time to recover. A 3d6 healing spell could leave a guy in bed for days.

 

Just some ideas.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

I think the key is to find a way in the campaign to control it (like the religious baggage alluded to above). Simple powers aren't necessarily appropriate for all campaigns.

 

The CON drain is a pretty good way, or an assumption of half the damage (without the physical effects). So, a healer could heal a 10 BODY broken leg wound by taking 5 generic BODY. You might allow healers to also buy 1d6 regeneration per 6 hours, only while sleeping. So, they heal fast but not too fast.

 

Alternatively you could have the side effect be a drain of equal character points to that healed of STUN to represent a weakened state. 15 pts of damage would then drain 30 stun, with a recovery of say 5 per hour or 6 hours, depending on how quick you want it.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

I always think it's okay to say, "this is how x-power works, period". It helps set the tone of the game, and helps avoid rampant plot breaking power.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

The CON drain is a pretty good way' date=' or an assumption of half the damage (without the physical effects). So, a healer could heal a 10 BODY broken leg wound by taking 5 generic BODY. You might allow healers to also buy 1d6 regeneration per 6 hours, only while sleeping. So, they heal fast but not too fast.[/quote']

 

Just to clarify my own experience, the rationale for the CON drain was that mages used the body's own energy to heal it's damage. Some special effects included a sort of localized time increase (to speed up healing), and using the body's reserves of energy/strength/whatever (often leaving the patient very hungry). It was a good way to allow some mages to have healing without stepping on the toes of religion.

 

Alternatively you could have the side effect be a drain of equal character points to that healed of STUN to represent a weakened state. 15 pts of damage would then drain 30 stun, with a recovery of say 5 per hour or 6 hours, depending on how quick you want it.

 

That's a good idea, too. Heals 'em, but puts 'em into a coma.

[Guest joen00b]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

I have a cuhrazy idea here. How about if you divide the character cost by 10, and that's the most dice of simplified healing allowable to be used by the healer, i.e.100 point character = 10d6 Simplified Healing over the course of the day.

 

I have no books, but we have some HERO genius' lurking that could build that up.

 

It could also be applied inversely to the person being healed: 100 point character = 10d6 simplified healing allowed to be healed for 1 day or 1 week or whatever.

 

I could just be thinking too small here, but that's my addition to this thread.

[Confusion]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

Well, in our current game healing 'spells' (it's more like prayer) work out like this. 2d6 healing, +2d6 if the target is the same religion (gods help a bit) +2d6 if you happen to be love in with the target. The spell has to be bought this way, does not work in combat (one minute (IIRC), 0 DCV) and can only be used once per wound. This is currently costing a little more than half of our healers end, I think she will pass out if she ever heals her true love. There was also a limitation that the target had to basically lie still for 24 hours, but we got rid of it because we are rash youth, and basically never listened to the her when she told us that. Especially after we got armor that basically fixed itself (and therefore could keep our guts in)

 

 

edit: I should add, that the party members are somewhat prominant figures, and we have only met two other people who can cast healing spells. And one person with 'healing potions' it turns out he was a necromancer, and that my character has the 'stench of death' surrounding him because of it.

[Trencher]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

And if they only get 4 adventures a year' date=' maybe that Extended Lifespan cost will start to seem a little more reasonable.[/quote']

Or you could just do as they do in the comic books.

[Greenstar]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

One big reason that I don't like the "poof, you're healed" thing is that it decreases dramatic tension. For example:

 

- The PC has been cut by a poisoned blade - now it's a dramatic race to see if the healing can get started before the poison gets too advanced

 

- The NPC is near death, but manages to gasp out a garbled message before expiring (with insta-heal ®, he'd just be patched right up and the PCs would get the whole story).

 

- Oh, that Ogre kicked your ass and knocked you all the way across the room? No problem - *poof*. Now get back in there and show him who's boss!

[Outsider]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

One big reason that I don't like the "poof, you're healed" thing is that it decreases dramatic tension. For example:

 

- The PC has been cut by a poisoned blade - now it's a dramatic race to see if the healing can get started before the poison gets too advanced

 

- The NPC is near death, but manages to gasp out a garbled message before expiring (with insta-heal ®, he'd just be patched right up and the PCs would get the whole story).

 

- Oh, that Ogre kicked your ass and knocked you all the way across the room? No problem - *poof*. Now get back in there and show him who's boss!

 

 

I thought we were talking about out of combat healing, mainly. The "trek back to town and see the High Priest in the Temple of Health" kinda deal. At least that's what both examples in the first post seem to indicate. "Poof! You're healed!" in combat is a whole different matter

[Greenstar]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

I thought we were talking about out of combat healing' date=' mainly. The "trek back to town and see the High Priest in the Temple of Health" kinda deal. At least that's what both examples in the first post seem to indicate. "Poof! You're healed!" in combat is a whole different matter [/quote']

 

Well, I find it hard to keep the two separated, really. The game flow, I think, needs some reasonably fast healing just so you don't always have to carry folks back to wherever they get healed.

 

Unless that's the effect you *want* to achieve, that is.

 

But it's all good. This is all just suggestions and commentary - take what you like and ignore the rest

[Roger Books]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

How about:

 

Healing takes 1time unit (minute?) per point healed.

Healing drains end of the person healed on a 1 for one basis. The end loss is recovered at a rate of 1 point a day.

 

Roger

[Storn]

Re: Keeping Healing in Check

 

In my Realms game, healing is rare. Healing potions non-existant. Medicine, otoh, is better than the medieval standard. Medical and mystical theory have advanced hand in hand and both are around late Reneissance theory of medicine. And I've run my Realms using several systems, not just Hero.

 

But one of the cultural "govenor" about being a true Healer is that that person is in HUGE demand, Kings and Emporers want that person on the payroll. Gettng accosted in the street is a daily happening. It is NOT a profession for an adventurer... that person will never have the time to do so, nor be poor enough to need to do it.

 

They exist... but they are exceedingly rare. Gods seem to be more plentiful and those will only heal ya if they feel like it. Big strings seem to come attached to that transaction.... heh.