Kill Bill

[Solomon]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Psychotic?

 

Nah, not more than your average mother. Just with better martial arts training.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Personally I also liked Go-Go...cute AND deadly. Total package. Yes' date=' O-ren was the main target, but Go-Go was actually more of a threat to The Bride than her boss turned out to be. O-Ren spent too much time sniping and not enough time gutting... [/quote']Speaking of Go-Go.. What was that weapon she used? Some kusari variant?

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Speaking of Go-Go.. What was that weapon she used? Some kusari variant?

 

AFAIK? Totally made up. Vaguely similar to some real weapons, such as the various Japanese chain weapons and flails.

[Twilight]

Re: Kill Bill

 

AFAIK? Totally made up. Vaguely similar to some real weapons' date=' such as the various Japanese chain weapons and flails.[/quote']

 

Unique weapon, personally designed by Go-Go perhaps? She strikes me as the type who'd have deadly weapons creation as a hobby.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Unique weapon' date=' personally designed by Go-Go perhaps? She strikes me as the type who'd have deadly weapons creation as a hobby.[/quote']Could be.. I rummaged around the net for a while, checking martial arts weapons, chain weapons, etc., but I could not find a match for it anywhere. Thanks for the reply guys!

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Kill Bill

 

I'm not trying to say there was anything wrong with the character concept. The character fit in with all the other characters, the genera, etc.

 

I'm saying that the like where she says:

 

"*giggle* You can scream better than that. AND YOU WILL."

 

was either very poorly executed or very poorly written.

 

I go with poorly written, since as long as the actress kept her mouth shut nothing was wrong.

 

FWIW, I also think Kevin Smith tends to overwrite a lot of his dialog.

 

Actually, I think the line is more like {giggle} " You can beg better than that. " Period.(In response to The Bride saying...I beg you to walk away.)

 

The line itself isn't bad at all IMO. The problem is the giggle is out of place given the circumstances. The giggle is also totally lacking in any kind of menace...making it seem even more out of place. I'd think maybe a brief "Ha" or "heh heh" proceeding the line would have been better....mainly as it seems more like what a teen would do as opposed to the giggle...which seems like what an 8 year old would do.

 

Rob

[OddHat]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Actually, I think the line is more like {giggle} " You can beg better than that. " Period.(In response to The Bride saying...I beg you to walk away.)

 

The line itself isn't bad at all IMO. The problem is the giggle is out of place given the circumstances. The giggle is also totally lacking in any kind of menace...making it seem even more out of place. I'd think maybe a brief "Ha" or "heh heh" proceeding the line would have been better....mainly as it seems more like what a teen would do as opposed to the giggle...which seems like what an 8 year old would do.

 

Rob

 

Japanese teens and young women often behave in a manner far younger than their actual age. It's a style. At its freakiest, kodomopoi behavoir can get creepy, with 40+ year old women wearing little girl dresses and putting on flirtatiously childish giggles. Go-Go was not nearly that bad. I had a few high school and college age students with all of her mannerisms, though none of them were actually professional killers (so far as I know).

[Lupus]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Go-Go's a case of YMMV, frankly. I liked her, others didn't, let's move back to discussing the Bride.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Go-Go's a case of YMMV' date=' frankly. I liked her, others didn't, let's move back to discussing the Bride. [/quote']

 

Fair enough. I think she'd make a great Dark Champions character. She'd even pass as a standard superheroic character with a few tweaks.

 

Rob

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Here is my rough draft for a character inspired by both the Bride and the Crazy 88s. I'd like to translate her "name" into Japanese if possible. The Triggered HKA is the one from Fantasy Hero that allows someone to attack someone else provided they kill their first target. Way Of The Sword gives her +1d6 HKA with her katana, and only her katana. Sort of a FENG SHUI Signature Weapon effect.

 

THE BLUE-EYED KILLER

Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes
13	STR	3	12-	Lift 150 kg; 2 1/2d6 HTH Damage
23	DEX	39	14-	OCV:  8/DCV:  8
18	CON	16	13-
10	BODY	0	11-
19	INT	9	13-	PER Roll 13-
16	EGO	12	12-	ECV:  5
18	PRE	8	13-	PRE Attack:  3 1/2d6
16	COM	3	12-

6	PD	3		Total:  PD ( rPD)
6	ED	2		Total:  ED ( rED)
5	SPD	17		Phases:  3, 5, 8, 10, 12
7	REC	0		
36	END	0		
26	STUN	0		Total Characteristics Cost:  112

Movement:	Running:  6"/12"
Swimming:  2"/4"

Cost	Powers & Skills
Martial Arts:  Kenjutsu
Maneuver	OCV	DCV	Damage


There Goes Another Jacket: Armor, Invisible to Sight Group (+1/2); Activation Roll, OIF (-1/2)
6	Fast On Her Feet:  Running +6" (12" total); Only To Make A Half-Move (-1)
It Was Just A Scratch:  Healing 3d6; Extra Time (hours), Self Only (-1/2)

Perks
Talents
You Missed!:  Combat Luck
Way Of The Sword:  HKA bonus with just her kenjutsu
Farmer's Wife Harvests The Rice:  Trigger HKA

Skills
AK:  Los Angeles
Breakfall
Climbing 
0	Concealment 8-
0	Conversation 8-
0	Deduction 8-
Defense Maneuver IV
KS:  Criminal Law
KS:  LA Underworld
KS:  Yakuza
0	Language (native)
0	Paramedic 8-
0	PS:  Lawyer 8-
Shadowing
Stealth
Streetwise 
0	TF:  
Total Powers & Skills Cost
Total Character Cost

200+	Disadvantages
Accidental Change:  
Age:  
Dependence:  
Distinctive Features:  Style
DNPC:  
Enraged:  
Hunted:  Police
Hunted:  Yakuza
20	Normal Characteristic Maxima
Physical Limitation:  
Psychological Limitation:  Code of Vengeance
Reputation:  
Rivalry:  
Social Limitation:  Secret Identity
Susceptibility:  
Unluck:  
Vulnerability:  
Experience
Total Disadvantage Points

Background/History:


Personality/Motivation:


Quote:  

Powers/Tactics:


Appearance:  Japanese-American, black hair past shoulders, blue eyes. Black jacket, white shirt, black tie, black pants, low boots, katana. Mask tied across face/eyes, ties dangle down the back. 


Designer's Notes:


( created by, character sheet created by Michael Surbrook)

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Here is my rough draft for a character inspired by both the Bride and the Crazy 88s. I'd like to translate her "name" into Japanese if possible. The Triggered HKA is the one from Fantasy Hero that allows someone to attack someone else provided they kill their first target. Way Of The Sword gives her +1d6 HKA with her katana' date=' and only her katana. Sort of a [i']FENG SHUI[/i] Signature Weapon effect.

 

THE BLUE-EYED KILLER

Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes
13	STR	3	12-	Lift 150 kg; 2 1/2d6 HTH Damage
23	DEX	39	14-	OCV:  8/DCV:  8
18	CON	16	13-
10	BODY	0	11-
19	INT	9	13-	PER Roll 13-
16	EGO	12	12-	ECV:  5
18	PRE	8	13-	PRE Attack:  3 1/2d6
16	COM	3	12-

6	PD	3		Total:  PD ( rPD)
6	ED	2		Total:  ED ( rED)
5	SPD	17		Phases:  3, 5, 8, 10, 12
7	REC	0		
36	END	0		
26	STUN	0		Total Characteristics Cost:  112

Movement:	Running:  6"/12"
Swimming:  2"/4"

Cost	Powers & Skills
Martial Arts:  Kenjutsu
Maneuver	OCV	DCV	Damage


There Goes Another Jacket: Armor, Invisible to Sight Group (+1/2); Activation Roll, OIF (-1/2)
6	Fast On Her Feet:  Running +6" (12" total); Only To Make A Half-Move (-1)
It Was Just A Scratch:  Healing 3d6; Extra Time (hours), Self Only (-1/2)

Perks
Talents
You Missed!:  Combat Luck
Way Of The Sword:  HKA bonus with just her kenjutsu
Farmer's Wife Harvests The Rice:  Trigger HKA

Skills
AK:  Los Angeles
Breakfall
Climbing 
0	Concealment 8-
0	Conversation 8-
0	Deduction 8-
Defense Maneuver IV
KS:  Criminal Law
KS:  LA Underworld
KS:  Yakuza
0	Language (native)
0	Paramedic 8-
0	PS:  Lawyer 8-
Shadowing
Stealth
Streetwise 
0	TF:  
Total Powers & Skills Cost
Total Character Cost

200+	Disadvantages
Accidental Change:  
Age:  
Dependence:  
Distinctive Features:  Style
DNPC:  
Enraged:  
Hunted:  Police
Hunted:  Yakuza
20	Normal Characteristic Maxima
Physical Limitation:  
Psychological Limitation:  Code of Vengeance
Reputation:  
Rivalry:  
Social Limitation:  Secret Identity
Susceptibility:  
Unluck:  
Vulnerability:  
Experience
Total Disadvantage Points

Background/History:


Personality/Motivation:


Quote:  

Powers/Tactics:


Appearance:  Japanese-American, black hair past shoulders, blue eyes. Black jacket, white shirt, black tie, black pants, low boots, katana. Mask tied across face/eyes, ties dangle down the back. 


Designer's Notes:


( created by, character sheet created by Michael Surbrook)

 

Interesting. I assume this particular version is designed for a Heroic level game. Even so...you might justify a 6 SPD.....making her take approximately twice as many actions as your standard thug.

 

Rob

[OddHat]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Here is my rough draft for a character inspired by both the Bride and the Crazy 88s. I'd like to translate her "name" into Japanese if possible.

 

殺し屋碧眼

Kurosha Heykigan

 

Probably she'd end up having her name shortened to "Kurohey", as that sounds like "Kuroi" i.e. Black, and the weak pun would appeal.

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Interesting. I assume this particular version is designed for a Heroic level game. Even so...you might justify a 6 SPD.....making her take approximately twice as many actions as your standard thug.

 

Actually, my intent it to build a Dark Champions-level character. 200-pt base, about 350 when I am done. A 6 SPD does sounds good...

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

?????

Kurosha Heykigan

 

Probably she'd end up having her name shortened to "Kurohey", as that sounds like "Kuroi" i.e. Black, and the weak pun would appeal.

 

Thankees, Oddhat.

 

Oh, and the recent spate of pics to the Supers thread are really good. Really, really good.

 

 

Oh, and I have some roughs of some of my write-ups for a few of the ones I posted, if you want to see them at this point.

[OddHat]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Thankees, Oddhat.

 

Oh, and the recent spate of pics to the Supers thread are really good. Really, really good.

 

 

Oh, and I have some roughs of some of my write-ups for a few of the ones I posted, if you want to see them at this point.

 

I'd love to, thanks. Can you send me the link?

 

Side note: I posted the Kanji, and I see it on my screen, as I have the Japanese Language character set installed. In your reply, I only see ?????. Did the Kanji display for you?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Actually' date=' my intent it to build a Dark Champions-level character. 200-pt base, about 350 when I am done. A 6 SPD does sounds good...[/quote']

 

Using Kill Bill as an example, it was clear that The Bride had a very high SPD, regardless of campaign level. If her opponents are primarily SPD 3(perhaps even SPD 4) opponents, then a 6 SPD would be enough to make her appear significantly faster than most of the opposition(as in Kill Bill). Though...in all honesty, I'd peg Uma Thurman at about SPD 8 in Kill Bill Volume 1.

 

Rob

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

I'd love to, thanks. Can you send me the link?

 

Nothing online yet. I could post the roughs here, like I did with TB-EK.

 

Side note: I posted the Kanji, and I see it on my screen, as I have the Japanese Language character set installed. In your reply, I only see ?????. Did the Kanji display for you?

 

Initially yes. But not in the reply.

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Using Kill Bill as an example, it was clear that The Bride had a very high SPD, regardless of campaign level. If her opponents are primarily SPD 3(perhaps even SPD 4) opponents, then a 6 SPD would be enough to make her appear significantly faster than most of the opposition(as in Kill Bill). Though...in all honesty, I'd peg Uma Thurman at about SPD 8 in Kill Bill Volume 1.

 

I'm trying to simulate that with the Triggered HKA, the Extra Running, and some other stunts, without going to an 8 SPD.

[OddHat]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Nothing online yet. I could post the roughs here' date=' like I did with TB-EK.[/quote']

 

I've been thinking about doing a companion thread on the Champions board of Supers With Pics; each one a character sheet with a pic from the Pics that Could Be A Super Team thread. I think it would be a hit.

[Susano]

Re: Kill Bill

 

I've been thinking about doing a companion thread on the Champions board of Supers With Pics; each one a character sheet with a pic from the Pics that Could Be A Super Team thread. I think it would be a hit.

 

That would kick so much ass!

[David Blue]

Re: Kill Bill

 

In what follows, I'm not putting the character down. I loved both movies, and I was cheering for The Bride all the way. But when everyone's saying "buy!" somebody has to say "but don't buy too much!"

 

The Bride was strong enough to squeeze herself against the ceiiling to avoid being seen by Gogo, but I'd do that as climbing. You need her strength to be lower than Gogo's. They tested it. Gogo was stronger. (And I think that was deliberate, playing against the schoolgirl image in every way.)

 

You need The Bride's constitution to be low enough that Bud can count on dropping her with the shotgun and then totally pacifying her with his injection, with all the time in the world to spare. You also need to think about her endurance and recovery. She needs to be put at a real disadvantage from her workout with the Crazy 88, even after O-Ren lets her take some full recoveries.

 

You need her to get beat up real good by Pai Mei, but you may decide he's a godlike being who doesn't need stats, and just wins by GM fait. I would.

 

She should not be wildly intelligent. She doesn't see the wedding rehearsal massacre coming ("Bill, it's your baby" - "Bang!"), she gets tricked by Copperhead ("Bang!"), and by Bud ("Bang!"), and by Bill ("Bang!"). She wasn't in favour of being shot by any of these people, and it's not like the setups were all unfair. She wasn't going to allow Bud a fair fight, even though he was clearly available for one, she was going ninja surprise attack on him. It's just that he was a lot smarter than her. And it was luck not wits that saved her from the shotgun lady (when she bent over, and "Bang!")

 

Ego is not a big issue.

 

But not going overboard with psychological disadvantages is. Every time she's put to the test, whether by Pay Mei with his attitude or Bud with the spray or Bill with the truth serum darts, she backs down. (Wisely, as it always turns out.) So she's not totally crazy.

 

I think you should consider giving her a find weakness with anything, and extra damage stacked on it. Otherwise, how do you take down a monster like Gogo with a nail? And she got through the coffin. Maybe she needed the torch for that.

 

All the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad characters seemed to have similar and high speed, though with Bud you can't tell. But Elle Driver didn't seem to think it would be wise to just attack with brute force and kill him, even though that would have been the best way to leave a death scene consistent with The Bride having killed him. And Bud thought that having that sword of his as an ace in the hole would do him some good, he didn't figure he'd be outclassed anyway if it came to that.

 

Susano's numbers looked like a great start.

 

But the main thing you need to play The Bride is the complete collaboration of the GM.

[nexus]

Re: Kill Bill

 

The shotgun blast could have been moderate Body damage so her Combat Luck kept her alive (and Rapid Healing took care of the damage while she was being held) and a High Stun Multiple combined with possible doubled Damage for Surprise. She was expecting to catch Bud completely off guard, not waiting to blow out her chest. The drug would be an NND effect, IMO.

 

I wouldn't give her a hugely high intelligence either. She did seem a bit naieve at times about somethings. I would give her high skills in areas like Tactics, PS:Assasin, etc. In her field, she was among the best otherwise she eeemed to a fairly normal woman mentally.

 

I saw Bud as a bit of a has been physically, but mentally sharp. Elle's use of the snake came across as more sadism than concern over directly fighting him. She liked snakes, she liked to see people suffer.

 

This is all just my opinion and as ususal there's really not a "right" way to do a character in Hero. I can see where you're coming from though. Sometimes we let our appreciation of the character cloud our objectivity when envaluating their performance in game terms and I like some of your suggestions.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Kill Bill

 

I'm trying to simulate that with the Triggered HKA' date=' the Extra Running, and some other stunts, without going to an 8 SPD.[/quote']

 

Fair enough and I admit to not being a huge fan of high SPD values either, but going by what I saw in the movie.....geeeeez!

 

Rob

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Kill Bill

 

In what follows, I'm not putting the character down. I loved both movies, and I was cheering for The Bride all the way. But when everyone's saying "buy!" somebody has to say "but don't buy too much!"

 

The Bride was strong enough to squeeze herself against the ceiiling to avoid being seen by Gogo, but I'd do that as climbing. You need her strength to be lower than Gogo's. They tested it. Gogo was stronger. (And I think that was deliberate, playing against the schoolgirl image in every way.)

 

You need The Bride's constitution to be low enough that Bud can count on dropping her with the shotgun and then totally pacifying her with his injection, with all the time in the world to spare. You also need to think about her endurance and recovery. She needs to be put at a real disadvantage from her workout with the Crazy 88, even after O-Ren lets her take some full recoveries.

 

You need her to get beat up real good by Pai Mei, but you may decide he's a godlike being who doesn't need stats, and just wins by GM fait. I would.

 

She should not be wildly intelligent. She doesn't see the wedding rehearsal massacre coming ("Bill, it's your baby" - "Bang!"), she gets tricked by Copperhead ("Bang!"), and by Bud ("Bang!"), and by Bill ("Bang!"). She wasn't in favour of being shot by any of these people, and it's not like the setups were all unfair. She wasn't going to allow Bud a fair fight, even though he was clearly available for one, she was going ninja surprise attack on him. It's just that he was a lot smarter than her. And it was luck not wits that saved her from the shotgun lady (when she bent over, and "Bang!")

 

Ego is not a big issue.

 

But not going overboard with psychological disadvantages is. Every time she's put to the test, whether by Pay Mei with his attitude or Bud with the spray or Bill with the truth serum darts, she backs down. (Wisely, as it always turns out.) So she's not totally crazy.

 

I think you should consider giving her a find weakness with anything, and extra damage stacked on it. Otherwise, how do you take down a monster like Gogo with a nail? And she got through the coffin. Maybe she needed the torch for that.

 

All the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad characters seemed to have similar and high speed, though with Bud you can't tell. But Elle Driver didn't seem to think it would be wise to just attack with brute force and kill him, even though that would have been the best way to leave a death scene consistent with The Bride having killed him. And Bud thought that having that sword of his as an ace in the hole would do him some good, he didn't figure he'd be outclassed anyway if it came to that.

 

Susano's numbers looked like a great start.

 

But the main thing you need to play The Bride is the complete collaboration of the GM.

 

Of course most of what you say is true, but the hard part of building most characters is simulating their great strengths, not their weaknesses.

 

For the O-Ren fight, I'd say The Bride lost Long Term END given the length of the fight with the minions.

 

As for the snake in the suitcase trick, well....Elle certainly had an easier time dealing with Bud than she might otherwise have. I'd say she was just playing it safe. She may or may not be afraid of Bud in a fair fight, but Elle(or any of them really) aren't the type of people who fight fair.

 

I don't really think Go-Go was stronger. The scene with the chain is hardly definitive as The Bride was at a complete disadvantage in terms of leverage.

 

Having said that, the Bride's most important stats are DEX and SPD, with the rest open to lots of interpretation. I'd also add lots of BODY.

 

Rob

[Victim]

Re: Kill Bill

 

Using Kill Bill as an example, it was clear that The Bride had a very high SPD, regardless of campaign level. If her opponents are primarily SPD 3(perhaps even SPD 4) opponents, then a 6 SPD would be enough to make her appear significantly faster than most of the opposition(as in Kill Bill). Though...in all honesty, I'd peg Uma Thurman at about SPD 8 in Kill Bill Volume 1.

 

Rob

 

I wouldn't go that high. Using Sweep to hit multiple crazies at once would give the appearence of a higher speed. Depending on writeups, she could also be using autofire, area attacks, triggered counter attacks, or spreading a no range RKA.

 

Bud's shotgun probably had several levels of increased Stun multiplier - wasn't it loaded with rock salt?