One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

[simplygnome]

After reading BOTH Flying Dodge threads all the way through AND the FAQ (which was reposted in both threads ANYHOW), I do have some questions that I can't find any rules for, but saw MENTION to in the threads. For note, I have FREd, 5ER, and UMA (just arrived in the store tonight...*huggle*)

 

Lets assume chatacters A(ttacker) and D(efender) were fighting each other. A attacks D (hrm, go figure, huh.. ) with a normal fist attack and D Flying Dodges three hexes back out of the way. IF A still had movement left to move that turn (either he didnt move yet, or he didnt move enough to use up his HALF move total), can he "move with" the character.

 

Examples would include a speedster trying to hit a martial artist. The MA flips 3" back, but speedster (who has yet to move...or has yet to use 1/2 his 40" of combat movement) still have plenty of movement left....Why WOULDNT he be allowed to follow the character...

 

That said, what if Speedster was using a Move-By, Passing Strike, or Move-Through and the MA FDed out of the way, lets say three hexs to the left....What simplicity would it be to just follow the target and hit him, with improved DCV that is, considering Ive got PLENTY of movement to spare and I AM doing a full move action....???

 

For note, this is ASSUMING FD is used as is in the book and FAQ. All house rules used to modify FD and such are noted, but not really targeted with this question.

 

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For note, Im trying to debate in this next game wether to use FD as written or house rule it as +4DCV, complete attackers attack, then move.... The problem im seeing in the reverse of above...What if I let the party speedsters have it?

[Edsel]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

Flying dodge, DFC or any other manuver you can abort with, technically take place before the attack otherwise you'd gain the benefits too late to help. An attack ends your actions for the round but that attack is occuring after the FD or DFC.

 

Keeping this in mind I would say that if the attacker still has the movement to keep up with the target he can move with them and launch his attack. The attacker will still be limited to the restrictions placed upon him by the type of attack he has announced. For instance, if it is a normal attack he will have to hope his half-move is enough to follow-up with. If the defender is able to get further away than the attacker can move to follow-up then the defender will escape being attacked.

 

Note that his answer is just off the top of my head since I am at the office and don't have access to my books right now.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

What Edsel said first is right. An attack ends your action. There is no movement. Versus hth attacks and attacks with no range (e.g. Flame Thrower), DFC and FD allow you to avoid the attack.

 

If A was performing a moving attack of some kind, I would allow the movement to follow but the attack still misses.

 

What would be appropriate to introduce however would be a "pump fake" of sorts. Essentially, A acts like he is going to attack to see what D's response is. If he is convincing enough D makes the FD, ends his movement and stands there. A then moves over and smacks him around, albeit at D's +4 DCV from FD. This raises 2 issues:

 

1. Is the fake 1/2 phase or 0 phase. As a PRE action it should be 0 phase, but since you have to convincingly fake an attack that might require a 1/2 phase. I'm thinking PRE vs. PER in a skill contest, with the PRE roll possibly modified by appropriate CSLs for the attack.

2. If it is a 1/2 phase action, A must then execute some kind of moving attack.

3. If it is a 1/2 phase action perhaps you could attempt it as a 0 phase action with a -3 penalty to the fake roll.

 

This works great for a PC A and an NPC D. Reversed however requires a little roleplaying. I would say that in a PC vs. PC or NPC A vs. PC D situation that A declares the attack and if D responds with FD, A may attempt to fake if A has witnessed this maneuver performed by D against A before.

[BNakagawa]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

So I guess the technical ramification of the rules is that if flying dodge allows you to abort to gain both DCV and movement, then if you don't have stretching or enough growth, you'll never be able to win a game of tag against somebody your own SPD who has flying dodge...

[etherio]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

Yep...I believe flying dodge is a spoiler, and I said as much on a thread of my own about a year ago. No point debating the issue. If ya like it, ya like it. If ya don't, ya don't. I personally suggest (to those who don't) that they come up with a house rule that eliminates what many of us feel is the real element of the inbalance: the fact that it's an automatic, full-move, dive for cover with no modifiers or penalties for potentially using very fast movement powers to get out of potentially huge AE effects.

 

I recommend one of the following:

 

1) Disallow the movement element of the maneuver when a character aborts to flying dodge. If he uses it on his phase, it's still very useful when one wants to "haul ass" through a dangerous spot or just wants to draw his enemies' fire.

 

2) Allow the movement element, but don't treat it as a dive for cover. Allow the attacker to take his shot (at the flying dodger's higher DCV, of course) before the movement takes place.

[pinecone]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

Yeah...I just don't allow the movement portion, I consider the "boost" of flying dodge to be the full move part for tactical manuver, not a strange "combat teleport" thing....everybody has their own peevs I guess....

[simplygnome]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

Allow the movement element' date=' but don't treat it as a dive for cover. Allow the attacker to take his shot (at the flying dodger's higher DCV, of course) before the movement takes place.[/quote']

 

If I DO change FD, this is similar to how I will work it...

 

On the other hand, as is...It seems that, if used right, it has the potential to be really fun and dramatic.

 

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As of right now I have a speedster with a few MA, a pure MA, a transforming brick, an elemental energy projector, and two who havent created character ideas yet.

 

I beleive that to give FD as is to my Pure MA would make tons of sense and be totally balancing. I would rule that someone doing a move though or other full move actiion would be allow to 'abort' to move with his target if they have enough movement. The speedster could still hit him, the brick would out damage him (one luck shot would put the MA under) and the energy projector is at no downside. Now if the SPEEDSTER got FD, all hell would break loose....but that wont be the case...Hrmmm, Im still in consideration.

[etherio]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

On the other hand, as is...It seems that, if used right, it has the potential to be really fun and dramatic.

 

...I beleive that to give FD as is to my Pure MA would make tons of sense and be totally balancing...

 

Please remember, though, that even a character with normal running speed becomes a hassle with FD. Y'know how other characters can choose to try to Dive for Cover 1" to avoid that Haymaker instead of Dodging? Well, as long as your MA can abort, his is automatic. No DEX roll to get to the next hex. No longshot (yet still possible) attack against Mr. MA's now outrageous DCV. Automatic. Thanks martial arts...5 points well invested, I must say.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

Well, in a clarification by Steve somewhere when I posed the question, if you abort to FD you get a 1/2 move since you are only aborting a half-phase.

 

Also, remember that FD does not avoid ranged attacks, unlike DFC. So, if someone levels a gun against me I can hit the dirt (DFC 1") and be missed. If I FD 3" away I can still be shot (at +4 DCV) so there it is only marginally better than a Dodge.

 

If you don't like it, buy +1 w/ DFC and +2 to offset DFC penalties for 5 pts. That means your average 18 DEX MA can make a 14- DFC 2" away.

 

I think used properly it is dramatic and a lot of fun. I've used it in all of my campaigns for the past 2 years and never found it unbalancing in heroic games and superheroic.

[etherio]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

I think used properly it is dramatic and a lot of fun. I've used it in all of my campaigns for the past 2 years and never found it unbalancing in heroic games and superheroic.

 

I have found it unbalacing...YMMV

[Legendsmiths]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

Well, it definitely depends on the feel you are going for. I do not believe the maneuver is in anyway realistic. I have found that a player sacrificing an action to avoid being hit is okay with me.

 

When we first started using it as a GM I was frustrated with it's use in the hands of the players. But then I thought about movies and books where one agile character kept a monster busy while everyone moved into position and this maneuver is perfect for that. In my fantasy setting there is only one martial art that has this maneuver. There are also certain animals that have it ala Red in Tooth and Claw (e.g. spiders, monkeys, etc.).

[simplygnome]

Re: One last, *QUICK* flying dodge question..

 

In my fantasy setting there is only one martial art that has this maneuver. There are also certain animals that have it ala Red in Tooth and Claw (e.g. spiders' date=' monkeys, etc.).[/quote']

 

Which is exactly how I see it being used, VERY SPARINGLY...although in a heroic game I can see its potential abuse more so than a Super Heroic...But still...