What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

[Citizen Keen]

I got into HERO with the Fourth Edition BBB, but I never bought any sourcebooks until Fifth rolled around. I hear (or rather read) people encourage others to buy 4th Edition books for genres that aren't out yet in 5th (like, before DC came out, or currently to get Cyber HERO or Horror HERO).

 

How applicable are Fourth Edition books? How much translating would I have to do for ideas in older books? Powell's Bookstore has a bunch of Fourth Edition books, and I'm wondering if its worth it to procure them.

 

Thanks.

[Toadmaster]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

It kind of depends on what type of games you play. The biggest differences are the price of some powers, lims, disads etc. If you are playing heroic games where knowing the point cost of every item isn't really that important then it is pretty easy to use 4th ed books. If you need all the point values then you will have some conversions to do.

 

Either way though the 4th ed books are quite usable, since the basic rules are not that different. Even the 3rd ed books have a lot of value but those will take alot more work since the changes in the system are more wide spread since many of the basic rules have significant changes.

 

For genres like the old west (Western HERO) or horror (Horror Hero) that are not even on the to do list at this point, 4th ed it is the only way you will see a HERO supplement for who knows how long, even for something like Pulp (Jusctice Inc) which is due out this year you may find useful information because the 5th ed books are not just updated versions of the old books.

 

At the prices I've seen most of the 3rd and 4th ed stuff go for (cheap) it can't hurt to have both.

[Dust Raven]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

From what I've seen with the 5th edition of books that I also have left over from 4th, there are LOTS of differences. Not in all cases, but in most.

 

Example: I have both the 4th and 5th edition of Ninja Hero. The 5th edition is the better book. After rereading it, the 4th edition seemed like a poorly written watered down version of the new and improved edition.

 

And there's no comparison between The Mystic World (5th) and Mystic Masters (4th). Mystic Masters is a waste of money now, even though I once though it was a worth wile purchase. It's now a book I'll never look through again and I hate that feeling.

 

The Ultimate Martial Artist is a bit different though. The 5th edition is definately better, but the 4th edition was still a good read and not much was changed. Still, like Mystic Masters, the 4th edition I have no need for (though If I hadn't purchased the 4th edition, I would).

[Lord Liaden]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

Rules-wise 4E and 5E are about 90% compatible IMO, so using 4E books in a 5E campaign doesn't usually require much conversion. The one notable exception I can think of would be Horror HERO, which makes some use of the optional Spirit Rules contained in it for character builds.

 

OTOH if books in both editions cover essentially the same subject matter, as with the Bestiary or Fantasy HERO, the 5E edition is generally far superior and the 4E one would add little to it. Also, the quality of 4E books varied widely: a few rival most of what's been published under DoJ, while others are much less useful and entertaining. (Just avoid European Enemies like the plague!)

 

If you have something specific that you're interested in it might be worthwhile to solicit opinions from the rest of us here before you purchase it.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

Thanks!

 

I was curious, because I was considering picking up some books in genres that aren't slated yet, like Horror HERO, Western HERO, and especially anything like CyberHERO and post-Apocalyptic-style HERO games.

 

Obviously I'd wait to see what the 2006 Line-up is, but if I have to wait until 2007 to get it, I'd just as soon invest in some ol' 4th Ed.

 

Any good reviews for CyberHERO? It wasn't published by ICE, it was published by someone else. Any good?

[Agent X]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

I much prefer Mystic Masters to the Ultimate Mystic.

 

And one thing you can find with 4th Edition books is a host of adventures.

[Susano]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

(Just avoid European Enemies like the plague!)

 

It drove me mad...

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/revisedhero/herorev.html

[Mark Taylor]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

I just bought the Fourth Edition versions of both Cyber HERO and Horror HERO on eBay, but I haven't received either of them yet so obviously I can't comment on the quality of their content right now. My main reason is because I'm planning to run a Cyber-Horror campaign at some point and obviously both of these supplements would be a boon to such an endeavour!

 

Of course, these purchases do not affect the fact that I will buy the Fifth Edition versions as soon as they become available, should DOJ choose to produce them!

[tgrandjean]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

Mind you, it is just my opinion, but I really didn't care for CyberHero.

I just didn't like the writeups on cybernetics. The coverage of cyberspace was also somewhat neglected.

I'd recommend instead picking up Kazei 5, the current version of StarHero, The Spacer's Toolkit, The Ultimate Vehicle (and the sourcebook), DarkChampions, or just working out the details for yourself.

 

HorrorHero otoh, has alot to offer though it would need MUCH work for conversion to Fifth.

 

(Also, though RobotWarriors wasn't that great of a book *ducks* I deeply regret letting it slip out of my fingers...)

[Susano]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

I'd recommend instead picking up Kanzei Five' date=' the current version of StarHero, The Spacer's Toolkit, The Ultimate Vehicle (and the sourcebook), DarkChampions, or just working out the details for yourself.[/quote']

 

Correction: KAZEI 5.

[zornwil]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

Mind you, it is just my opinion, but I really didn't care for CyberHero.

I just didn't like the writeups on cybernetics. The coverage of cyberspace was also somewhat neglected.

I'd recommend instead picking up Kazei 5, the current version of StarHero, The Spacer's Toolkit, The Ultimate Vehicle (and the sourcebook), DarkChampions, or just working out the details for yourself.

 

HorrorHero otoh, has alot to offer though it would need MUCH work for conversion to Fifth.

 

(Also, though RobotWarriors wasn't that great of a book *ducks* I deeply regret letting it slip out of my fingers...)

I don't entirely disagree, but I think it has plenty of useful tech ideas and enough interesting ideas on sci-fi to be quite useful.

[Dust Raven]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

A bit off topic, but I found a book at a local used book store.

 

It's 1st edition revised Champions. Should I grab it for old times sake (and so I can have a copy of at least one book from each edition)?

[Rapier]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

I'm a completist. My campaigns move around so much in time/setting/space/dimension that the extra material is nice. I also find that each and every (although some a great deal more than others) supplement I've bought has had some benefit. Sometimes it's only a story arc that pops into my head, sometimes a new rule or interpretation of an old rule, sometimes just a setting (read this as setting feel, aura, ambience) for a particular game.

 

There is also not that great a deal difference between 4th and 5th. The conversion is a snap and doesn't take any more real effort than simply typing the characters into HD.

 

Not all the stuff from 4th made it into 5th. There are some characters that didn't make it past the cut. No big, since we got lots of good additional stuff but some of the historical favourites haven't made it into print recently. The old stuff allows you to bring them back, badder than ever tweaked for your group.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

Thanks!

 

I was curious, because I was considering picking up some books in genres that aren't slated yet, like Horror HERO, Western HERO, and especially anything like CyberHERO and post-Apocalyptic-style HERO games.

 

Obviously I'd wait to see what the 2006 Line-up is, but if I have to wait until 2007 to get it, I'd just as soon invest in some ol' 4th Ed.

 

Any good reviews for CyberHERO? It wasn't published by ICE, it was published by someone else. Any good?

 

My feeling about Cyber HERO is somewhat mixed: it has some good source material, but the exploration of the cyberpunk genre was a bit spotty IMHO, and the default cybernetics and netrunning guidelines seemed to me to be rather limited.

 

I would second the recommendation for Mike "Susano" Surbrook's Kazei Five sourcebook, available as an ebook from Hero Games's Online Store. Although it focuses on anime-style cyberpunk, it has lots of material useful for more mainstream cyberpunk as well as transhumanism, including rules for psionics and examples of mutations. Mike has extensive samples from the book and his own campaign on his website, which you can view here.

 

You could also check out the cyberware, bioware and netrunning rules from Damon Dusk's conversion of the Shadowrun RPG into HERO System, called Shadowpunk. It's very detailed and comprehensive, and includes many examples which you could use as given or easily modify to taste.

 

For post-apocalyptic gaming, I think you'd find Ron Miller's Wasteland Hero helpful. It's a complete web sourcebook for post-apoc gaming. Although it's explicitly inspired by the classic Gamma World setting, it has lots of information of general utility for post-apoc.

[zornwil]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

A bit off topic, but I found a book at a local used book store.

 

It's 1st edition revised Champions. Should I grab it for old times sake (and so I can have a copy of at least one book from each edition)?

No, pick it up and send it to me ASAP.

 

 

Seriously, I would pick it up.

[Tom Carman]

Re: What's the Worth of 4th Ed. Books?

 

Thanks!

 

I was curious, because I was considering picking up some books in genres that aren't slated yet, like Horror HERO, Western HERO, and especially anything like CyberHERO and post-Apocalyptic-style HERO games.

I would say that Western HERO is a good investment if you want to play in that time period. Some of the things it added to Hero4 base rules made it into FREd.