Citizen Keen Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 5R lists the "Lift" in the Strength table as "the maximum amount of weight a character can usuall just manage to lift off the ground, stagger with for a step or two, then drop, in kilograms". By that standard, I probably have a Strength between 13 and 15 (I can lift a 400 pound person if I have to). But there's no way I can bench that. Only using part of my body, my Strength is severely diminished. Has anyone created some sort of conversion for the Strength represented by using part of your body? Say, if I had to lift something using exclusively my arms or legs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Keep in mind that the strength value doesn't take into account pushing, which is what you are doing when you are lifting that 400 pound person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Keep in mind that the strength value doesn't take into account pushing' date=' which is what you are doing when you are lifting that 400 pound person.[/quote'] It has been stated before that Pushing should never be considered for "normal" lifting values. Pushing is only for Life and Death situations. It represents the adrenaline/willpower that you can tap into in emergency situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted February 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Yeah, I wouldn't count that person as Pushing. I can reliably lift a 400 lb person about once a day, if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Yeah' date=' I wouldn't count that person as Pushing. I can reliably lift a 400 lb person about once a day, if I have to.[/quote'] Do you mean "lift" as in "off the ground", or as in "lift up in bed"? Not trying to be overly inquisitive, I was just wondering what the situation was in which you ended up lifting a 400lb person? Pro wrestling? Helping care for someone? Inquiring minds want to know. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Off the top of my head.... Using one arm is -5 Str. Due to the logarithmic/exponential nature of strength:wieght lifted, any difference is going to be small: a few points, I'd have thought. If you felt that someone was restricted in the strength they could use, I'd apply a -5 Str (benching, maybe: you can lift 200lbs), and if you are severly restricted you could apply -10 Str (double arm curl you could manage maybe 100lbs) and severly restricted and can't even apply all the available limbs would be -15 Str (single arm curl you could lift 50lbs). You could get silly and define values for individual fingers but that really does get daft. Now the problem with this approach is that you'll get people arguing that with certain types of entangle you can not apply full strength: if you are encased in a block of ice in the upright position, how much strength can you apply to break out? Well you haven't got much leverage and...well, I wouldn't worry about it in most circumstances, and I certainly wouldn't apply it to an in-combat entangle. I might let it go if someone was restrained out of combat where you could spend some time tying them up properly: you could apply anything up to a -20 on Str, I'd reckon. You could prevent people using EB to escape if (for example) they blast from their hands and you tie their hands facing a body part, so any blast will hit them not the entangle. Anyway, maybe entangle wasn't the point, but if it was, there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength One of my friends is aprox 100 kgs, we took turns at lifting him and walking/ staggering around the room to see if we had 10 str or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength One of my friends is aprox 100 kgs' date=' we took turns at lifting him and walking/ staggering around the room to see if we had 10 str or not. [/quote'] If you could lift him up and hold him for a few seconds, or stagger a few feet, then I'd say you have a 10 STR. Most adult males have between a 9 and 11 STR. STR 8 (what most people like to refer to as the "norm" or "Average person") is a couch potato. A person who gets regular exercise should have at least a 10 or probably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Using proper technique, virtally anyone should be able to get 100kgs off the floor, and probably walk with it for a short way. My 10 year old son can lift me and I weigh about 83 kgs (Str 9, approx) The world record for the squat is over 1200lbs (about 550kgs or STR 22/23). That seems about right, heh? The olympic record for weightlifting in the 105kg male class is about 472kg (STR 21 to 22). The same person doing a clean and jerk has a record of 262 kg (about str 17/18) Fun, eh? Guess it is right: if you are not a PC you can't push... http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_827.pdf Technique and leverage clearly plays a major part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Do you mean "lift" as in "off the ground", or as in "lift up in bed"? Not trying to be overly inquisitive, I was just wondering what the situation was in which you ended up lifting a 400lb person? Pro wrestling? Helping care for someone? Inquiring minds want to know. KA. No prob. I have very tactile friends. One of my friends is 350 pounds, and I was able to carry him on my back for about a hundred yards. From this, I assume I could lift a 400 lb person and carry them (with a struggle) ten feet. This is assuming I could get a good grip. BTW, I'm not bragging about my Strength. I'm 6'6" and have a very healthy frame. I asked because I have about normal bench (130-200 lbs, depending on how in shape I am), but with my size I can carry a lot more. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength No prob. I have very tactile friends. One of my friends is 350 pounds, and I was able to carry him on my back for about a hundred yards. From this, I assume I could lift a 400 lb person and carry them (with a struggle) ten feet. This is assuming I could get a good grip. BTW, I'm not bragging about my Strength. I'm 6'6" and have a very healthy frame. I asked because I have about normal bench (130-200 lbs, depending on how in shape I am), but with my size I can carry a lot more. Just a thought. Being 6'6 with a healthy frame, I would expect that you could lift 400lbs and carry it a short ways. The bigger you are, the more potential muscle power you have to exert on something. As for Bench-press, I'm assuming most people's Bench Press weights are pretty close to half of their maximum lift. For me, my maximum lift is probably around 250lbs. My bench press is somewhere in the 150llb range, but I'm very badly out of shape and getting old to boot. (good thing I'm still gorgeous!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength http://www.usapowerlifting.com/records/national/men-open.htm Records are easily available. In Champions terms, subtract about 1-2 STR to see how much a brick can Squat and 3-5 STR or so to see what he can Bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Using proper technique, virtally anyone should be able to get 100kgs off the floor, and probably walk with it for a short way. My 10 year old son can lift me and I weigh about 83 kgs (Str 9, approx) The world record for the squat is over 1200lbs (about 550kgs or STR 22/23). That seems about right, heh? The olympic record for weightlifting in the 105kg male class is about 472kg (STR 21 to 22). The same person doing a clean and jerk has a record of 262 kg (about str 17/18) Fun, eh? Guess it is right: if you are not a PC you can't push... http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_827.pdf Technique and leverage clearly plays a major part... Congrats on using a citation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength No prob. I have very tactile friends. One of my friends is 350 pounds, and I was able to carry him on my back for about a hundred yards. From this, I assume I could lift a 400 lb person and carry them (with a struggle) ten feet. This is assuming I could get a good grip. BTW, I'm not bragging about my Strength. I'm 6'6" and have a very healthy frame. I asked because I have about normal bench (130-200 lbs, depending on how in shape I am), but with my size I can carry a lot more. Just a thought. Not to split hairs, but I am not sure carrying something on your back is the same as 'lifting'. I think the 'bear hug, lift, and walk a few feet" example is a better approximation of what the rules are talking about. That doesn't mean you couldn't do it, but it is a different application of strength. I used to think my brother-in-law was unbelievably strong. He works as a carpenter, and I would often see him carrying really heavy stuff around. Now, he actually is strong, but I later realized that he was shouldering the stuff he was carrying. A week ago I had to carry one of those pressed sawdust bookcases (unassembled of course) up the stairs. It wasn't past my ability to lift, but it would have been a bit of a strain to carry it up the stairs in my arms. I put it up on my shoulder and it felt like nothing! By the same token, I think a person can probably 'piggyback' way more weight than they could pick up with their arms and carry. Maybe we can get a ruling from Steve on the official rules for the Hero Strength Lift. I think either "Bear Hug, lift and carry" or "Two Suitcases, one in each hand" should be the official standard, but that is just my opinion. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silbeg Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength A week ago I had to carry one of those pressed sawdust bookcases (unassembled of course) up the stairs. It wasn't past my ability to lift, but it would have been a bit of a strain to carry it up the stairs in my arms. I put it up on my shoulder and it felt like nothing! There is the application for the Hoist skill... which could be affecting your lifting capacity. By the same token, I think a person can probably 'piggyback' way more weight than they could pick up with their arms and carry. There is a big difference between lifting a dead weight and a person... the person generally helps you lift, by unconsciously adjusting their center of gravity, whatever, to make it easier to balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Congrats on using a citation. Oh I wish I'd bought detect sarcasm. I'm just going to treat it as a compliment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Oh I wish I'd bought detect sarcasm. I'm just going to treat it as a compliment! Not sarcasm, just glad not to read another argument based on"Well I personally can X, therefore..." I should probably have repped the post, and will do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Not sarcasm, just glad not to read another argument based on"Well I personally can X, therefore..." I should probably have repped the post, and will do so. Sorry, just being over-twitchy Wasn't angling for compliments/rep, but always gratefully received! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength Sorry' date=' just being over-twitchy Wasn't angling for compliments/rep, but always gratefully received![/quote'] No worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength I don't have it in front of me (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet), but The Ultimate Brick directly addresses some of these questions. It talks about the difference between the "lift off the ground, stagger a few steps, and drop" and other types of lifting: clean and jerk, dead lift, bench, etc. With recommended multipliers to determine limits for each of these. For example (though my memory of the factor might be off): 80% of your "bear hug lift" would be your deadlift weight limit, i.e., 10 STR can deadlift 80 kg. 90% for clean and jerk, i.e., 10 STR can clean and jerk 90 kg, etc. Buy TUB! There's more to bircks than you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength I don't have it in front of me (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet), but The Ultimate Brick directly addresses some of these questions. It talks about the difference between the "lift off the ground, stagger a few steps, and drop" and other types of lifting: clean and jerk, dead lift, bench, etc. With recommended multipliers to determine limits for each of these. For example (though my memory of the factor might be off): 80% of your "bear hug lift" would be your deadlift weight limit, i.e., 10 STR can deadlift 80 kg. 90% for clean and jerk, i.e., 10 STR can clean and jerk 90 kg, etc. Buy TUB! There's more to bircks than you think! Groovy. I have a STR of 17 or 18. Now I need to go buy myself some HtH Damage Classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength I don't have it in front of me (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet)' date=' but The Ultimate Brick directly addresses some of these questions. [/quote'] I was equally surprised until I saw your post, and then realized you beat me to it. But the Ultimate Brick has some information in this subject, including how much of your STR (or lifting capacity) is applies in certain tasks (like bench pressing and other weightlifting stuffs). It's works as an excellent overall reference for the STR characteristic and could easily have been called The Ultimate STR as it's certainly not limited to the Brick concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength I'd always wondered how much strength you could (realistically) apply to an entangle you are in....hmmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength I'd always wondered how much strength you could (realistically) apply to an entangle you are in....hmmmm.... Old time strong men regularly broke iron chains they'd been bound in, so quite a lot in a cinematic game. The trick was not low quality chains or damaging the links; the trick was in compressing the chest and shoulders before being bound, thus gaining leverage for the expansion. Maybe bricks who know they're going to get entangled could "Brace Versus Entange", halving DCV but gaining +10 STR for the escape? Kind of Martial Escape with Abort added to the maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted March 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Re: Partial Body Strength I wanted to know so badly I went out and procured The Ultimate Brick today. It answers all my questions, and more! David and Steve - congratulations on a job well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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