HERO System question

[MitchellS]

Re: HERO System question

 

I agree, I don't see why FH is anymore of a problem than any other Heroic genre, what is the difference between a wand of fire balls 2d6 RKA 6 charges and a .44 Magnum 2d6 RKA 6 shots. Just because one is magic and one is available at the corner guns and armor shop?

 

If anything I've found mages at the disadvantage in HERO because the barbarian warrior can go buy Def5 chainmail armor and a big 2d6+1 axe, while the mage has to buy his spells with points.

Be fair though. Part of the beauty of Hero is that your mage can wear 5 def armor and use a 2d6+1 battle axe too.

[Rick]

Re: HERO System question

 

Well ones Energy the others physical. Energy Killing attacks are often the same as NND in Heroic games since rED can be rare.

 

I do admittly see and agree with your point though.

[atlascott]

Re: HERO System question

 

"Since you can know the "true value" of items in HERO, it makes comparisons of items between players more likely. "

 

Good point--it would actually make stocking dungeons with comparable magic items EASIER.

 

And, I had never considered just doing a general balance. Good point. Maybe I am making it harder than it needs to be, like one fellow suggested. Just because I cut my teeth in the genre on D&D, doesn't mean thats the only or right way to do it...

[Starwolf]

Re: HERO System question

 

I kind of use an amalgam system. Some items/spells the players find/capture are instantly usable. Other items/spells may require study/research to figure out how to activate/use. The items/spells that need to be studied are the ones the players spend XP on. I use the XP to simulate the study process.

 

So a +1 Broadsword would be instantly usable, but a +1 Flaming broadsword would only act as a +1 sword until the user discovered how to activate (paid the XP cost) its flaming ability. I had not considered charging only the difference in XP between the base cost and the extra abilities....consider that concept adopted...

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO System question

 

Characters don't have to pay for the things they find in a fantasy game. If they find a magic sword' date=' by the rules, they don't pay for it, they get it.[/quote']

This is the way I'd do it. Forget the points. Magic is just like any other equipment, only you can't spend money on it, you have to find it and recover it. Only if a character wanted to make their own magic items would they need to spend CP, and in those cases there are ways around that (like finding an item, like a gemstone, that has CP stored in it which a character can use to make a magic item without using their own CP; just like finding any other magic item, only you get what you wanted).

 

Heck I've a system in my next Fantasy hero game where if a character spends enough time with an item it can become magical at no cost to the pc, though they won't realize it's changed (magic in the world will be about intent and everyones somewhat touched with magic, like the force in starwars). So Garn, the peseant boy, who's only weapon is his dagger is in adventures for 10 years of game time. This whole time the PC keeps the blade (it was his father's), so after several years of game time I realize this, whenever I see him use that weapon I start give him a +1 ocv to hit (without telling him). That may go up later on too, I may even roll an extra d6 and add it to his damage if I'm so inclined.

 

I like this idea. It adds history and rewards a character for role-playing dedication.

[Rick]

Re: HERO System question

 

I like it because if I play a game then 50 years later, and include said dagger as a magic item it's a further reward to the characters.

[sbarron]

Re: HERO System question

 

I like it because if I play a game then 50 years later' date=' and include said dagger as a magic item it's a further reward to the characters.[/quote']I've considered a similar system because it seems more realistic to me. It most fantasy, if you find a weapon that works for you, you stick with it. And if your father gives you a sword, then you sure as hell don't ditch it just because a +1 sword comes along. D&D practically forces character to constantly be upgrading weapons, and it just rubs me the wrong way.

 

So in my game, if a PC's father gave him a sword, and the PC keeps it and uses it despite the possibility to upgrade, he will be rewarded. It just makes the story so much better, I will not let the character suffer for it.

 

A quick example...

 

In one of Cornwell's Sharp novels (Sharp's Sword, I'd think), the main charcter breaks his sword in combat and is in turn seriously wounded. While he is at deaths door struggling to recover, his friend goes to great lengths to re-forge the broken blade in hopes it will aid Sharp's recovery.

 

After Sharp recovers, he acquires a near perfect sword from a defeated French officer. He now has to choose which sword to keep. Sharp thinks of all of his countrymen whose blood has been spilled by this perfect French sword, and weighs that against his own now mis-balanced weapon that has been with him for years and re-forged by his friend during a time of dire need. He ends up throwing the perfect sword in the river.

 

Could you honestly not reward a PC who casts aside a clearly better weapon for reasons like those? The "magic" from the re-forged sword transends a mere +3 (or whatever). It goes to everything I'd like to roleplay for and never am able to. Man, I dream for players like that. I can only imagine ways the character would find his "broken" sword would be so, so powerful...

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO System question

 

I've considered a similar system because it seems more realistic to me. It most fantasy' date=' if you find a weapon that works for you, you stick with it. And if your father gives you a sword, then you sure as hell don't ditch it just because a +1 sword comes along. D&D practically forces character to constantly be upgrading weapons, and it just rubs me the wrong way. [/quote']

 

To further my bashing of the D&D system (), I agree. I've always hated the necessity for upgrading magic items. The source material, even those published within an official D&D world (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, etc), doesn't easily support the need to upgrade magic items. When a character does "upgrade" it's usually because they have lost their old weapon an need a new one. They rarely, if ever, just ditch their gear in favor of stuff they find along the way.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO System question

 

I've considered a similar system because it seems more realistic to me. It most fantasy' date=' if you find a weapon that works for you, you stick with it. And if your father gives you a sword, then you sure as hell don't ditch it just because a +1 sword comes along. D&D practically forces character to constantly be upgrading weapons, and it just rubs me the wrong way. [/quote']

 

Of course, it's "better" [he said sarcastically] now that the system assumes you can just pay someone to upgrade your equipment. The "Legend of your Magic Sword" goes from:

 

to 2nd Ed "I seized this blade from the hoard of the Great Wyrm Tsuggoth, and slew the mighty beast with the aid of its vast powers."

 

3rd Ed: "K-Mart Blue Light Special $49.95"

[Rick]

Re: HERO System question

 

Ofcourse in my game there are more standard magic weapons forged by "Runesmiths", who are usually dwarves but not always. Even these though you need to understand before their power comes to bare for you. It takes time and learning and these weapons get to know you as well, testing to see if you're worthy of them.

 

For instance Kale's (God of Justice) Cold Hand of Justice is a sword created by the greatest Runesmith and warrior ever, the Dwarven Legend "Coroth the IronWolf". Unlike many finely made swords this blade seems to be oddly plain and pragmatic, no jewel in lays or Roccocco designs; just a hardy well made bastard sword. It's only outstanding feature to the casual observer is the edge of the Abathor steel blade will never dull (it doesn't take the "real weapon" limitation, no maintance). It was inspired by a vision from Kale himself and took Coroth 2 months to create alone, while in his snow covered forge (at the end of this 2 months a lone War Priest of Kale ended a pilgrimage to Coroth's home, Serendipity?, and blessed the blade). It turned out to be meant for the hand of Pel Aronthor, the young human page Coroth would raise years later. Pel would become a great hero, a powerful Sword of Kale (Paladin) and the Founder of the Knights of the Freelance (Knights of the Realm).

 

To the finest souls not blessed by Kale, Kale's Cold Hand of Justice will simply be the finest sword they'd ever own. It never dulls and it's balance is unering. The sword itself though will activly try and find the hand of a sword of Kale and as such will rarely keep an owner for to long, until it finds such a person.

 

In the Hand of a young Sword of Kale the squire will learn the lessons, trials and benefits of being a Paladin in Kales service, there is no order for these men and women, many are paladins and don't realize it for many years. The sword's powers are many; it rarely misses a target, it's edge bites harder to those of evil's will, in the darkest time it will light your way, a wielder of this sword is never suprised, in the coldest storm the wielders bones will not chill ect ect ect....

 

Now when a PC gets this sword, all of these things don't come at once, it takes many game sessions for these powers to come to bare, usually one at a time.

 

AND, it doesn't cost the PC a single point.

 

Now if your PC is a Ruinsmith, building these weapons does cost points, but there are ways around this with fine goods and the not offering extra points.

[Toadmaster]

Re: HERO System question

 

To further my bashing of the D&D system ()' date=' I agree. I've always hated the necessity for upgrading magic items. The source material, even those published within an official D&D world (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, etc), doesn't easily support the need to upgrade magic items. When a character does "upgrade" it's usually because they have lost their old weapon an need a new one. They rarely, if ever, just ditch their gear in favor of stuff they find along the way.[/quote']

 

 

To be fair though most D&D characters are at a point that they haven't found, stolen, been granted or otherwise acquired that cool trademark weapon. I have never played in a D&D game where the PC has anything worth keeping even for sentimental value. In most fiction the characters are not starting off at 1st level and already have something cool passed on from a relative or found in prior journeys.

 

It is really interesting to me how much D&D influenced the development of RPG's, some things are so set that it is hard to change, like the concept of starting off as a nothing so the game revolves around improvement (XP & treasure diving), in the few cases of games that assume the character is already near the top of their ability people often complain about the lack of an expeience system like that is the only reason to play, HERO gets some of this since XP is generally measured in single digits. Similarly some seem to be confused or even disapprove of starting off with a "high level" character as being power gaming or even munchkin, I remember trying to get some D&D players to give GURPS Conan a try it just wasn't worth it because most saw it as a one shot since the characters were so powerful there wouldn't be any point in an extended game.

[Toadmaster]

Re: HERO System question

 

Be fair though. Part of the beauty of Hero is that your mage can wear 5 def armor and use a 2d6+1 battle axe too.

 

 

Yes this is true but the "fighter" most likely spent points on skill levels and stats while the "mage" bought magic. Yes I see the smiley so I know your just poking at the idea but I thought it was worth mentioning.

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO System question

 

To be fair though most D&D characters are at a point that they haven't found' date=' stolen, been granted or otherwise acquired that cool trademark weapon. I have never played in a D&D game where the PC has anything worth keeping even for sentimental value. In most fiction the characters are not starting off at 1st level and already have something cool passed on from a relative or found in prior journeys. [/quote']

 

That is true, but there enough stories of a character who is given his special weapon when he was just a lad and has trusted it always, or of an item that was passed down to the young adventurer.

 

Sting from LOTR is a good enough example of this. Though both Bilbo and Frodo had done some adventuring prior to either receiving the elven sword, it wasn't much.

[Sean Waters]

Re: HERO System question

 

5 point HtH skill levels Only with signature weapon -2 (same as limitation level as independent - lose the weapon and the levels are, in effect, gone): 2 points a level or 3 levels cost 5 points.

 

Character buys a few skill levels like that and they are only ever going to use the +1 magic sword their father gave them that they started with even if they later get a +2 sword.

 

Hero beats d20 again.