Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

[tabascojunkie]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

I guess I'm just easy to please but I have very few gripes about the Star Wars movies. I've been an SW geek since I was 5 years old in 77. I've seen the people that hate the prequels and the Ewoks and I don't know, I guess I just see it as no matter what the annoying parts are it's still a continuation of the story and I get to find out what happens next in the big picture.

 

So my opening diatribe out of the way, the things I would change are to get rid of the midichlorians. Let the Force stay mystical and mysterious, don't quantify it and explain it. It's like a joke, it's just not as funny when the punch-line is explained.

 

And Jar-jar was a little annoying so axe him or at least get rid of his comic-relief factor.

[tomd1969]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

The midichlorians can be kept in EpI, but Qui Gonn Jinn's explanation for them strikes me as similar to "spontaneous generation" or abiogenesis--the belief many years ago that meat spontaneously turned into flies, or sewage turned into rats (ref: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio114/spontgen.htm). IMV, this shows that the Jedi (or, at least, Qui Gonn Jinn) were unfamiliar with the scientific method.

 

In my opinion, the midichlorians don't generate Force as much as they are simply found where there is a lot of Force. Perhaps midichlorians consume Force; hence, high concentrations of the Force would attract a large quantity of midichlorians, similar to the way that a large amount of excrement attracts a large quantity of flies.

 

Just my $0.02. {cha-ching!}

 

YMMV

[BlackSword]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

I like a lot of the EU stuff, but some of it is out of character for SW.

 

I would gut the most from the Prequels (mainly, that whole Midi-chlorian thing) and upgrade thei power level of the Jedi to that of the Clone Wars animation that hit Cartoon Network....

I've only read a few novles in the EU, so I wouldn't use the EU at all. I did enjoy the Clone Wars, and have picked up a new game, Republic Commando, in which you lead a clone Commando unit. I could see running a game with jedi at Clone War (animated series) power levels, or a Commando unit for a military style campaign.

 

I would limit the material to what is published by WotC (or even WEG's material, though I don't own any WEG books), and probably a limited subset of those books as well. For non-game material I probably just stick with the 6 films (maybe just the original three, using the prequels as information about the pre-Empire days, but not canon).

 

One more thing to add that I forgot about. I would change some aspects of the Jedi Knights and their code. The steppingon an ant gives you a darkside point is a bit ridiculous. Not that I would make them stone cold killers, but a little more lee way would be nice. I like the suggested idea of perhaps going with the Samurai code for their main code as workable.

[Rick]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

It's never said that the midi-chlorians are what generates the force, I really think it was Goerge Lucas trying to create a "genetic marker" of sorts for those talented in the force. All they supposedly do is wisper the force's (a mysterious energy field) will to you. Now, as possibly the easiest star wars fan for Lucas to please (I love episodes I and II) I'm sort of neither here nor there about the midi-chlorian debate.

[tabascojunkie]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

 

In my opinion, the midichlorians don't generate Force as much as they are simply found where there is a lot of Force. Perhaps midichlorians consume Force; hence, high concentrations of the Force would attract a large quantity of midichlorians, similar to the way that a large amount of excrement attracts a large quantity of flies.

 

 

YMMV

 

Okay, now that explanation I'll buy.

[Lanith]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

I only have one question: If the Jedi Order "kept peace in the universe" for the reported 1000 generations; but Yoda, Obi-Won and Vader are the "last of that ancient religion"; how come no one remembers Jedi?

 

Even if Obi-Won has an HUGE boost in his age from the Force and Vader is kept alive by his machines for double his normal lifespan, I just don't see how it is that Jedi are not being talked about. Heck, every idiot in the universe would carry a lightsaber and claim to be a Jedi if only to inspire fear.

 

Just my random thoughts.

[Rick]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

In aculture were melee weapons are common, people who don't have skill with the weapon won't usually just carry it around. Besides I've feeling there was a campaign of negative press about the Jedi and anyone carrying a Lightsaber (except vader) was probably killed or arrested on sight. Old Bens show in the Cantina certainly brought some serious attention from the storm troopers.

[Curufea]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Like the samurai hair-cutting of the last emperor, perhaps.

 

A subjucation (or anti-emancipation) of the Jedi / honour of Jedi.

[austenandrews]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Who says no one remembers the Jedi? Han knew enough about their religion not to believe in it. Luke knew about them and he was a farmboy on a backwater planet whose adopted parents probably actively downplayed such information. Jabba and his cronies knew enough to be excited that they'd tossed one into the Rancor pit. The Rebellion apparently took the Jedi religion as their own.

 

Also, compared to the size of the galaxy the Jedi were extremely rare. The average Japanese peasant would have had a better chance of meeting several samurai than the average Republic citizen would have of even glimpsing a Jedi. They were distant stories, more myth than reality. And between their aloofness and their demonization by the Emperor, they probably weren't the most beloved figures among those with regular contact. So people went from rarely talking about them to never talking about them.

 

And in any event, notice that the only ones talking about the Jedi in such exalted terms are the Jedi. For all we know that could be analogous to someone saying "For two centuries the agents of the Secret Service have been guardians of peace and justice in the United States."

 

As for lightsabers, one assumes the Force is required to build one (judging by Vader's comments in ROTJ) so there'd be precious few around for idiots to pretend with.

[Lupus]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

The EU certainly didn't get the genre right (mostly - there were exceptions). But there were additional problems: mostly, elements they added that simply DIDN'T MAKE SENSE.

 

One of the first things I altered when planning a Jedi game: the baby-snatching thing.

 

For those who aren't familiar with this, it's the practice of Jedi to basically demand to take force-sensitive children away from their parents, because they'd be dangerous if they weren't instructed in the way of the Force. Basically, the same as you'd see in B5-verse; replace Psi-Corp with the Jedi. I think it was meant to add a 'grey' edge to the Jedi.

 

However, it doesn't make sense. Because you have this other philosophy, the 'too old to begin the training' thing. Now, how can you justify that? Well, it's because if someone is too old, they have trouble losing their old pre-conceptions of the universe - learning the Jedi way is all about seeing the universe in a different light, and having too much experience (even 12 years) is perhaps enough to be locked into a single worldview.

 

Here's the kicker: if trained in the Jedi way, these people are more likely to turn darkside, thus becoming dangerous.

 

So we have two competing philosophies: 1) must take children to train them, otherwise they will be dangerous. 2) must not train children, otherwise they will become dangerous. But left alone, they shouldn't turn out too bad.

 

They cannot co-exist. One or the other is true, but not both. Since 'too old to begin the training' has basis in film, but 'jedi baby-snatchers' does not, my choice was simple.

 

(I don't like the recent trend of 'greying up' the Jedi, anyway. Most of it's gratuitous iconoclasm. Sure, it's not realistic to have an all-good, all-the-time organisation, but this is fantasy! Come on!)

 

(Not to mention that the Jedi order we see in the films is ENTIRELY all-good, all-the-time. They're certainly losing their way. I just don't feel the need to injecti Psi-Corp Aesthetic to make 'em edgier.)

[Lupus]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Now, as far as me re-writing the SW universe, I'd take the films as the one and only canon source. From there, we have tiers of sources - the Lucasarts material being top-grade, followed by the spinoff literature. Games like X-Wing come last, but I'd put KotOR in with the literature.

 

Basically, as a raw assumption, everything except the films is gone. Then I go through the EU, adding in what I like, altering most of it, tossing out the rest.

 

Insanely powerful dark jedi who can destabilise suns with their mind? Gone. (SW isn't superhero-world!)

 

Cloning and usign the Force to transfer 'essence' to another body? Gone. (Again, SW isn't comic-book superheroes. This is a telepath trick.)

 

Random resurrections? Gone. (In SW, if you're dead, you're dead. No revolving-door heaven here.)

 

Old Sith history? Keep. (But altered, mainly for removal of Thanos-level bad guys like Exar Kun. Or, more accurately, removal of powers. Keep him, but power him down.)

 

So stuff like that. Also, get rid of the annoying EU habit of coming up with back-stories for EVERYTHING and why it's intimately tied in to Galactic history. Like the ancient temples the Rebels were based out of in Ep 4 (on Yavin IV). HOW many stories ahve they been pivotal in? Come on, can't they just be temples from some forgotten prehistoric species that since died out, with no connection ever to Galactic affairs?

 

Why does EVERY alien in the Cantina have to have a name, history, and connection with the Galactic struggle? Can't some of them just be drunken bums?

 

And what is UP with all of this glorification of the bad guys? Like all the Boba Fett 'not a bad guy, just has his contracts. Really a good guy deep down after all.' While warm and fuzzy and all, it also bites. I was so glad when all of that spinoff stuff got tossed out by film 2. Yay!

 

Anyway, that's my EU rant, letting off some steam while (possibly) adding to the discussion. ;

[austenandrews]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Has the EU created a "baby-snatching" background? Because the films don't support it. Qui-Gon made the comment that Anakin would have been identified and trained as a Jedi had he lived in the Republic, but it's a bit of a leap from that to "we're taking your baby and you can't stop us," especially from the Good Guys. Until Darth Maul confirmed the reemergence of the Sith, there's no evidence that the Jedi had any reason to think an untrained Force-sensitive being would be dangerous. In fact if they had a policy of not training kids who were too old, there must necessarily have been Force-sensitive beings in the GFFA who were not trained. One must therefore assume the galaxy had plenty of Force-sensitive beings who were untrained, for a variety of reasons.

[Curufea]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

I was dubious about reading SW fanfiction and franchise fiction before - becuase of the high probability of slush. But having read the comments here on the EU, I think I'll never bother with the EU books.

[Lupus]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Has the EU created a "baby-snatching" background? Because the films don't support it. Qui-Gon made the comment that Anakin would have been identified and trained as a Jedi had he lived in the Republic' date=' but it's a bit of a leap from that to "we're taking your baby and you can't stop us," especially from the Good Guys. Until Darth Maul confirmed the reemergence of the Sith, there's no evidence that the Jedi had any reason to think an untrained Force-sensitive being would be dangerous. In fact if they had a policy of [i']not[/i] training kids who were too old, there must necessarily have been Force-sensitive beings in the GFFA who were not trained. One must therefore assume the galaxy had plenty of Force-sensitive beings who were untrained, for a variety of reasons.

Exactly! That's my reasoning in a nutshell. The two concepts are simply impossible to reconcile with any degree of satisfaction.

 

I've seen the concept most notably in the Jedi Apprentice books (for younger readers, chronicling Obi-Wan's apprenticeship to Qui-Gonn - actually a good read, overall). But I've run into the concept elsewhere, too. It's certainly become common enough that it's made it into things like the d20 SW Jedi sourcebook.

 

Just an example of something that authors obviously didn't really think through well enough.

[austenandrews]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Yet another reason why I don't participate in the EU.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

I've never read any EU books that had the Jedi using "baby-snatching" tactics. Luke basically went around the galaxy searching for individuals who were force-sensitive then asking if they wanted to be trained as Jedi. Most said yes, some very few said no. Most of these individuals weren't even children, until much later, after Luke discovered a method of identifying Force-sensitive individuals (which had nothing to do with Midichlorians) and even then, it was the parents choice.

 

This is Luke we're talking about here. He wouldn't go around snatching babies.

 

As far as the Prequels go, I doubt if they snached babies. The Jedi order was so renown that parents would probably willingly give up their child gladly (so to speak) to have a Jedi in the family....even if their child would no longer know them.

 

Then again, it may also be Republic law.

[Rick]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

It seems more like a voluntary thing on the parents part, especially for unwanted pregnancies that ended in Force sensative children or very poor families in the same boat.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe.

 

Okay, I'd keep the first three movies.

 

 

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You're waiting for me to say something more, right?

 

 

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Keep waiting.

 

 

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For Phantom Menace, I'd:

Ditch Jar-Jar. Use that Hammerhead guy from the cantina. Or at least make Jar-Jar non-CGI and non-annoying. If he hadn't been a retard and irritating as hell, he'd have been okay.

Ditch the midichlorians. That's retarded. Ditch the divine birth while I was at it, too.

Make Anakin older. For this movie, make him the age he was in the second movie. He can be a whiny teen the way Luke was a whiny teen. That way the "too old" comment makes sense, and it gives a dark, sinister tint to Yoda later declaring Luke too old in Empire ('cause his father went bad when he began training at the same age).

 

For Attack of the Clones:

Anakin should be even older. Like the age Luke was in Empire, or the age he appears to be in the new movie.

What's his name's head should have fallen out of the helmet.

Ditch the "all the storm troopers are clones of Boba Fett" thing.

Actually, the clone wars should be different all the way around. The clones should be bad guys. Some evil group should actually attack the Republic using vast armies of clone soldiers. Then, the Emperor rises to power due to his own political maneuvering. It can be a real war. It shouldn't just be a plot by the Emperor.

 

For the rest of the backstory... leave it undefined. It's cooler that way, because everybody will fill it in with their own imaginations. As soon as you define it, that's going to make some people go "cool" (but no cooler than they'd create with their own imaginations), and others go "WTF"???