Herolover Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 In another forum someone mentioned what game they would want to “re-boot†and re-imagine much in the same way they have re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. Someone mentioned that they would like to re-do Star Wars and make the Jedi more like Kirosouwa (sp?) samurai. So, my question is, if you had the opportunity to “re-do†Star Wars what would you do with the Jedi and the Force? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Nothing, I like them a lot as is. I would simply gut the EU out of the picture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. In another forum someone mentioned what game they would want to “re-boot†and re-imagine much in the same way they have re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. Someone mentioned that they would like to re-do Star Wars and make the Jedi more like Kirosouwa (sp?) samurai. So, my question is, if you had the opportunity to “re-do†Star Wars what would you do with the Jedi and the Force? There'd be quite a bit that I'd do ... but most of it is creative editing ... I'm of an opposite opinion to Rick, as I'd include a ton of EU stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. I'd just get Joss Whedon to rewrite the dialog BTW - Akira Kurosawa Famous for - The Hidden Fortress, Ran, The Seven Samurai and Yojimbo http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000041/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevenall Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. After much diliberation...What Rick said. Though if you take only episodes 4-6 as your source, there are a lot of questions left unanswered. Any of which could lead your universe off in different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Well, I wouldn't mind going back to the core concepts and doing some careful worldbuilding, not to mention rethinking more carefully how the universe itself works and holds together. Some things bugged me even in the original series. For example, the fact that there's this thing called the Force and Luke had to be explained what it was. And yet in that same dialog Obi-Wan Kenobi says that for a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of the Old Republic. To me, there's a fundamental contradiction here. If the Jedi were the guardians for thousands of years (define "generation"), wielding the Force, you would think that knowledge of the Force and the Jedi Knights would have completely and totally permeated the Republic, in the same sense that samurai were a core part of the Japanese culture. Lucas, sensibly, ducked religious issues and hence a lot of controversy, but the interaction of the Force and religions is something that I felt was distinctly lacking. After thousands of years, you would think a lot of religions would have the Force as a central element to it, just as ki was a part of Japanese metaphysics. Yes, I suppose he wanted to keep it mysterious and dramatic, but after a thousand generations to think that everyone's going to forget it in one is a bit screwy. In a reimagining of the Star Wars universe, the first question is "what does everyone think of the Force". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. I would simply gut the EU out of the picture... Can't place EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Nothing' date=' I like them a lot as is. I would simply gut the EU out of the picture...[/quote'] Agreed. Which is basically what I'm doing with my upcoming SW game at HeroCentral (set in the distant pre-Republic past). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. EU is the 'E'xpanded 'U'niverse, anything basically not on the Bigscreen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. I like a lot of the EU stuff, but some of it is out of character for SW. I would gut the most from the Prequels (mainly, that whole Midi-chlorian thing) and upgrade thei power level of the Jedi to that of the Clone Wars animation that hit Cartoon Network.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. *heh* At Clone Wars power levels, Obi-Wan could have taken out the Death Star by himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Umm, yeah no. Not me. I actually like the Prequels, and the clone wars, they had there moments for sure (anakin Sith lady fight, Ob1 and Yoda were cool), were lacking as a StarWars things IMO, way to much Samuri Jack (Tartokavsy after all). Midi-Chlorians are neither here nor there for me. The Post Return of the Jedi stuff is just Scifi (starwars is really fantasy) with authors who don't really seem to realize what actually works in the movie. Yeah Ewoks routing StormTrooper legions and Jar Jar miss the mark, but the Broad story telling techniques and scope don't. I think sometimes Novels aren't the right way to tell a starwars story, the medium demands things that don't fit the milleu. Comics though are a great way to do, and some have been really good. There's a real simplicity to starwars, I think that elegance gets lost in most of the subsquent non-cinematic iterations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. It's actually interesting the thing about making the Jedi more like Kurosawa Samurai, since the first movie was a homage to the Hidden Fortress, was it not? Midi-Chlorians have got to go, oh and the Sith were done all wrong- make them more like Ninjas- not as outright powerful as Jedis, but creatures of stealth and guile who are impossible to pin down and defeat when thet're trying not to be found. As imagined, there is no reason for the sith to hide or limit thir numbers- if they were numerous, with their level of power they could crush the Jedis outright, so why hide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Ummm, this really isn't supposed to be a debate, but I'd consider hiding on the same planet as the Jedi temple right under their noses, creating, then playing, two sides of a massive civil war, manuvering the entire republic war machine against them and then at the right moment striking them down once the boy with all the power is ripe for turning, pretty damned ninja/sneaky/machevalean.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Concerning the EU: A lot of it doesn't quite get the feel of Star Wars right, but the problem with Star Wars is that it is a combination of multiple genres all rolled into one. At heart, it is a fantasy. The Wizards Apprentice, the Pirate and the Princess all fight the evil overloard and his overwhelming forces and overcome incredible odds. But in spirit, it is a Martial Arts tale: The quest for mastery of the self and enlightenment. Thats Jedi in a nutshell. But in overt appearance, it is a SciFi tale: All the starships and Raygund any scifi fan could ever hope for. Many of the EU novels have gotten 2 out of the three right, but was missing something of the other. Though, I find the best one's were the one's that explored more of the philisophical elements of Jedi training and mastery of the Force. Many of the books set in the New Jedi Order era did this and were quite good. Of course, they had a bit more to go on since they started publising those after the release of episode 1 and the authors took what GL did with TPM and expanded on it (also the authors made Jedi seem much more competent in battle, based on what we saw in Ep1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Hmmm, I guess there are several issues being discussed all kind of revolving around each other. If I was doing a screen version then I would leave well enough alone barring replacing the director. The movies would all get a PG or PG-13 rating with some bits that would appeal to young children (7-15) but not go so far as the current films have. For a RPG, I would need to do several things. 1) Shrink the unbelievable time frame (20,000 years is just to darn long) I would make the Hyperspace Wars occur roughly 1,700 years prior to Star Wars. 2) I would have a monolithic repblic instead of the MONOLITHIC Republic. Say 1,500 to 4,000 worlds belonging to the Republic. There would be other sectors of space with enemies (Star Trek does a much better job at this than Star Wars does). 3) I would set the game during the Sith Wars - the outcome is largely unknown, the specifics are sketchy, and most importantly there are numerous force using adversaries. Using this model, the Jedi organization might not even remotely resemble the current Jedi Council... A. There could be opposing schools of force thought B. The Sith Wars could radiacally change the face of the Jedi organization. C. The Jedi need not be portrayed as an infallible organization of goodwill....i.e. they could be trying to subsume other Force Traditions. D. The entire group could all play Jedi with some diversity between them. On the subject of the EU and other non-cannon material - some is good and some is bad. My opinion is that the majority of this is largely based on if you fit the targeted demograpic of the book and if the book actually met its criteria for the demographic (i.e. some books are not labeled as "Teen Books" but they are). My favorite book so far (Other than Zhan is the Shatterpoint by Matthew Stover. I gets pretty deep into the Jedi philosophy and why the Jedi were doomed to lose even before the war started. It also deals with how the Jedi and the Jedi code can face the horrors of war but at its heart the book is about the spiritual growth of Mace Windu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Well, what it seemed from Episode 1 and 2 is that while the Republic Senate was the governing body of the massive Republic, it seemed to work more like the United Nations. It seemed more of an organization to make sure everyone got along with one another and that commerce between systems continued to run smoothly, so that everyone would benefit equally (relatively speaking). Just like in real life, in the Old Republic, the corperate bureaucrats had control of a vast amount of the senat through old fashioned bribes and trickery, so they could make sure that things happened the way they needed them to in order to improve their own business ventures. So it seems that various governments could handle their affairs on their own, and even go to war with one another as long as they followed the Republic charter (kinda like the Geneva Convention etc) and since the Republic had no Army of its own, that leaves a whole host of opportunites for tyrants and despots to rise to power out in the frontier and fringe areas and plenty of adventuring potential for Jedi trying to keep the peace in such areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. My pet theory about Sith/Jedi works like this: Long ago, the Sith ruled the galaxy as an empire for many generations. However, their rule was occasionally threatened by two things: Succession and Factional wars inside the Sith. At some point, one of the Sith wised up. He then elminated *all* other Sith, and all of his acolytes. He then took one (and only one) student and taught him up. This eliminates pretty much all Succession/Factional wars, since no other Sith exist! (This explains the One Master, One Student thing). The Second problem was a result of the above solution: Force users arise naturally. Before, the different Sith factions would recruit them. Now, they just ran loose. Many of them never developed very much power--but the remainder were trouble. To control this, the Sith Emperors set up a an order of assassin/enforcer/inquisitor consisting solely of force users--the Jedi order. They 'recruited' all force users in the empire, to properly 'train' (indoctrinate) all of them. Note that Jedi seem to invariably prefer to operate as solo, stealthy forces capable of mind control and optimized around close-quarters battle. (the jedi v. droid battle in the arena being the primary exception--and boy, that went well!) Eventually the Jedi order overthrew the Sith, which eventually led to the Republic. But note: the Republic seems to be kind of a UN of feudal states in a lot of ways (just how did Queen Amilada get 'elected' at 16, anyway?) Like all the old Sith empire governers either switched sides or were replaced by Jedi-friendly ones? Anyway, that's my pet theory. Make of it what you will. (Note that I've never read any of the Star Wars books, so I have little enough idea what the EU contains) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 13 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. It's actually interesting the thing about making the Jedi more like Kurosawa Samurai' date=' since the first movie was a homage to the Hidden Fortress, was it not?[/quote'] Star Wars was an homage to The Hidden Fortress the same way Yojimbo was an homage to Dashiel Hammett's Red Harvest. You take what you want from the earlier material and then hope that no one notices swipe. If no one does, you're labelled a genius; if they do, you call it an homage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. No, Goerge Lucas openly credits his influences, he on many occasions talked about the Hidden Fortress and a New Hope and later the Phantom Menace. A New Hope wasn't an Homage to the Hidden fortress it was influenced and inspired by it, it was an Homage to the Flash Gordon serials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevenall Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. A New Hope ... it was an Homage to the Flash Gordon serials. And, in my opinion, Flash Gordon is an homage to Edgar Rice Burroughs's Martian novels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. That's probably true, I'm not familiar with those novels. The truth is this isn't what this thread is about and I'm a bit guilty of the slight thread Jack, it's about everyones own vision of starwars, no call for debate me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Actually Lucas wanted to do Flash Gordon at the beginning but couldn't get the rights. He was still a relative novice at the time. So he created Star Wars instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. Yep, that is true. So he wrote his own saturday morning serial, complete with stilted dialogue and ostencibly thin stories, though there is always something deeper or more sophisticated under the surface... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tengu King Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Re-imagining the Star Wars universe. The funny thing is, a few years back, I was working on an adaptation of SW, working w/ the annotated screenplay to make the saga take place on modern day Earth. When I think about how I'd have things go, it'd feel like it was made by John Woo w/ fight choreography by Yuen Woo Ping...iow, adding more fantasy to this science fantasy. I'd abolish that mitochlorian hogwash and put the Anchorhead sequence back into New Hope, so we can truly see Luke as a total geek before becoming the last Jedi... Heh... "Berry Gordy's Last Jedi", with Taimak as Lucas Skywalker, Vanity as "Mama" Leia, and Richard Roundtree as Shaft Solo....mwa ha ha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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