Magic System

[Ner0Sputnik]

Now, I've not played with a lot of magic in the past. My Fantasy Hero world has been based on Renaissance to Regency Europe and has never had a bunch of magic in it. It's worked out very well but I've wanted to go back to a more traditional Fantasy setting... so I've been working on a magic system... and I figured that since this was a place to workshop ideas I'd share it with my fellow Hero fanatics.

 

I've always had a problem with the D&D "When you cast a spell it disappears from your head" syndrome. Just seemed really lame to me. I know it's a way to keep mages in check but it's freakin' weak-sauce, let's face it. What I do like was that wizards really have to study a lot to keep up to date so this is what I came up with.

 

Mages

For every 5 real points in a spell, you must spend 10 minutes per day studying and practicing that spell. (I didn't want to do active points because that can get to be too much time.) After 3 days of not studying a spell, you get a -1 to your casting roll. Every day after that is a further -1. It just shows how you get rusty if you don't study.

 

Clerics

Basically the same as mages but instead of practicing the spell you are required to pray.

(I've heard the Turakian Age has some great ideas on this so it may change once I pick up that setting and do some reading.)

 

High Magic

Wizards in my campaign are high-level mages. People you don't mess with, mostly npcs but for a high point campaign you could have a wizard in the group. Just be careful. This gets powerful very easily.

Once a character has 75 points worth of spells, etc... it is possible for him to seek out a Wizard's school and seek out admission. If they think he's cool n' stuff, he will be sent on a quest (or a series of quests) to prove that he is worthy. If he succeeds they will take him in. (If not he's either dead or may try again if he didn't mess up too badly.) Usually these quests are not just to prove your might with magic but to prove that you're inventive with the magic and are of strong will. Temptations to go against the tenets of the order are almost always present on these quests.

 

So, if he succeeds he is accepted into the order and spends a year (game time) training. At the end of this he has a 25pt power pool that he can use to pump up the effectiveness of his spells. As he goes along he puts more and more points into this pool. This is high magic. It is rare but when the players come across a "Wizard" they know to treat him with respect. (Imagine. He's a powerful mage in the first place. Has a 3D6 RKA Explosion (Fireball) and now can add another 25+ points into that... and that's just as a journeyman wizard.)

 

Thoughts?

[Old Man]

Re: Magic System

 

I like the ideas in the High Magic section, but the studying requirements for clerics and mages annoy me because they're a) too similar to the D&D 'forgetfulness' phenomenon and do nothing to discourage certain bad FH mage habits, in particular the one-spell pony and the stationary-artillery-mage-who-does-nothing-but-cast-fireball-all-day. If I cast fireball five times a day (at least), why would I have to study it? The praying requirement makes a bit more sense but you could expand that to govern all cleric behavior and add more flavor to the religion... -1 penalty if you ate meat in the last week, -1 penalty if you didn't shave your head this morning, -10 penalty if you're not chaste... alternately you could work these into the required limitations for priestly spells.

[Old Man]

Re: Magic System

 

You could just build the study bits into required limitations. Something along the lines of Must Practice With Spell (-0). Define Practice as actually casting the spell a few times or spending time in town/camp studying.

 

Having Requires Skill Roll is generally a good idea as well.

 

There is nothing you can do about one trick ponies except turn your game into a D&D clone.

[Old Man]

Re: Magic System

 

Well, you can discourage one trick ponies by forcing the use of multipowers or ECs, my favorite being the EC. That way the player could make a character with just one or two spells if he wanted to, but he's not getting any benefit out of the framework. I prefer discouragements over outright bans.

 

The artillery piece is another matter altogether. The best way I can think of to solve that is to increase the cost of the 0end advantage. At least then they'll run out of end. Although, in reality, FH mages are far better as support characters rather than trying to deal damage themselves. RKAs are not nearly as cost effective or versatile as things like flight, TK, or invisibility.

[Ner0Sputnik]

Re: Magic System

 

See? And this is why I love passing new ideas past you guys before integrating them into a new campaign.

 

Old Man - Good point on the one-trick pony. My players are usually better conceptually than that but I'm just asking for that kind of trouble with anyone new. I do like power frameworks just not Variable Power pools with no points assigned to specific spells. I had one guy come into my group for a couple of nights and try to pull this one over. No sir. You have to buy your spells

 

I also like your ideas for the piety adjustments.

 

Shadow Pup - I definitely use "requires skill roll" for all spells. (I'm also a fan of End drains on failed magic rolls.)

[CourtFool]

Re: Magic System

 

The artillery piece is another matter altogether. The best way I can think of to solve that is to increase the cost of the 0end advantage.

 

I do not mind the artillery piece so much if that is their schtick. Artillery pieces are generally not very mobile or well protected and need support to be effective. I find the increased time limitations effective for making combat mages team players.

 

I always hated the 'fire and forget' spells of D&D. It just ruined the feel for me. I like Increased Endurance to make mages think more carefully about when and where to fire off a spell.

[Old Man]

Re: Magic System

 

I get the feeling you're trying to find ways to limit the power of your spell slingers. While the study thing is a good idea on paper, it isn't really too limiting. The majority of the time, nothing happens aside from the players saying "I study enough for my spells" and that will be it. You will have to work hard as a GM to think up reasons why they cannot have enough time to study.

 

You could have some spells require material components. OAF, Expendable, Difficult to Acquire (or Easy to Acquire). That way the number of times the spell can be cast is limited to the amount of stuff the mage has. Smacks of D&D but there are lots of examples in literature for this.

 

Or you could require OIF Mage Staff or Holy Symbol.

 

Magic feels more like magic when you have the wand waving, magic words thing going on.

[Ner0Sputnik]

Re: Magic System

 

I get the feeling you're trying to find ways to limit the power of your spell slingers. While the study thing is a good idea on paper' date=' it isn't really too limiting. The majority of the time, nothing happens aside from the players saying "I study enough for my spells" and that will be it. You will have to work hard as a GM to think up reasons why they cannot have enough time to study.[/quote']

 

Actually... not really. Myself and the other guys in my gaming group are very much into the role-playing aspect of the game. I've always liked the idea of mages who have to study their spells... because mages should be studious... in my opinion. They're supposed to be beings of high intelligence and lots of book smarts. This isn't going to limit them so much especially since they can say, "I take first watch and spend 30 minutes studying spider climb. 20 minutes on my lightning bolt spell..." etc... I want them to have to think about it because it's an integral part of who their character is. If you never practice, you're going to get rusty.

 

You could have some spells require material components.

 

I generally leave that up to the player, but I do like end drains as a side-effect of failing your roll.

 

Or you could require OIF Mage Staff or Holy Symbol.

 

Magic feels more like magic when you have the wand waving, magic words thing going on.

 

Hellz yeah! I usually tell people who want to play mages that they're allowed a small end reserve that can take shape how they want, usually staff or a wand.

[badmudderfugger]

Re: Magic System

 

This has nothing to do with this thread but: Old Man....I just about wet myself reading your sig.

 

Berserk if not berserk 14-

 

Thanks for the belly laugh.

[tkdguy]

Re: Magic System

 

I like the scholarly magic in Castle Falkenstein. Basically, you research a spell that you want to cast, and put in whatever effects you want based on time and number of effects; basically they're advantages and limitations that modify the base cost. Then you draw power by gathering the magical energy in the atmosphere. When you've drawn enough power, you release the spell by saying a predetermined incantation. It doesn't have to be complex or even serious; "A la peanut butter sadwiches" works just as well as "Abracadabra."

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Magic System

 

Your homework assignment: Convert this system into Hero terms.