Clairsentience and Teleport

[Stormspace]

I'm trying to develop a character that can first see a location he has never been to, and then teleport to that location. Currently I have it built as a megascale Teleport with a Linked Megascale clairsentience that only reveals the current view of the area. Is this the proper way to build this ability?

 

What would be the best way to do this?

[Steve Long]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Since this is a "how to," I've moved it to the Discussion area.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

I'm trying to develop a character that can first see a location he has never been to, and then teleport to that location. Currently I have it built as a megascale Teleport with a Linked Megascale clairsentience that only reveals the current view of the area. Is this the proper way to build this ability?

 

What would be the best way to do this?

 

Since I'm pretty open to initial builds, I'd say yes... as this was very similar to how we built a character called Portal in my games. Make a perception roll to "see" the right location (could be lots of minuses involved or not, as that is GM's call... then tell the player what they do see. "You wanted the girls locker room for the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders? Ok... hmmmm... well, you are pretty sure you got close, but that ain't no cheerleader currently mooning you! You can teleport there if you want."

 

It's a potentially abusive ability/combo... munchkin players could really hose your plots with this. Major stop sign next to this combo... but I'd allow it, for the most part. Just be open to tweaking the build as you see how it works in actual play.

[Stormspace]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

I know that in most cases Teleport requires a line of sight, it's just the D&D player in me wants it otherwise...

[nexus]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

This is one of those cases were Talents like Absolute Range Sense and Bump of Direction would come in very handy. In general, I wouldn't allow the combo. Too much potential for abuse. "I want to teleport into the secret base WHere is it? How should I know. I'll use my Clairsentience." I call for some sort of Navigation rolls, with AKs and such as complimentary to get an idea where you are going. Mind Scan would allow you teleport accurately straight to someone with enough of an effect roll.

 

If you're playing a Mystical character in the appropriate campaign. "Detect:Right Location (broad class of things), Ranged, Targetting, scads of telescopic (or Mega scale) could work to represent the character's mystic awareness of time and space, yadda yadda.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

I probably wouldn't allow a straight teleport, but I would allow a player to buy a floating teleport location, and memorize a place into it using clairsentience.

[nexus]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Since I think this is about a specific character in a campaign I run, I'll post my thoughts here. Keep in mind this campaign is low powered and aiming for a bit more "realism" in the use of powers. For example, a flying character had to get maps and a GPS or she got lost when she flew to high and too far and could use landmarks to navigate.

 

Shade (the PC in question) has the ability to teleport by stepping into shadows. He can also see where is going when he does this (Clairsentience threw shadows, linked to Teleport). I wouldn't allow him to specfically pick location to arrive in precisely that he has never been too before (memorized) particularly if he had no idea where there where. He could make Naviagation rolls, AK and other things to help out. Or just pick a certain distance and direction and go for it, but he's doesn't have pin point accuracy to unknown and/or unseen locations.

 

For example. if he wanted to Teleport `10 Km to the east in general. I would allow that. If he wanted to try to Teleport to the (Campaign City Mall) which he knows happens to be abouto 10 KM to the East,I'd like him try (Navigation roll, but where he showed exactly would be subject to fate). If he wanted to teleport to the third stall in the Men's room of the Mall Movie theater which he has never been to before...well that would considerably more difficult if not impossible for him to target specically. If he wanted to teleport to the Hidden Anti Mutant Base that he thinks MIGHT be somewhere in the mall, that would be impossible.

[Blue]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

I've used something similar to this, but not quite.

 

Bridge, who has many memorized locations and megascale, and is able to teleport groups of people, with our without their will, has the ability to see locations for teleport purposes using video or other means. In other words, she has a clairsentience that only works on locations she can see live through TV reports, Remote cameras, Webcams, etc. If you've got a live feed up then she can see the location just to T-port there.

 

Normally, I ruled, you can't do this, because video doesn't convey any real information regarding the location's distance from you, plus the video delay would mess you up (there could be something in your way the split second after you saw the video and 'ported yourself there). But this worked out nicely for avoiding that issue.

 

But as you can see, this is more restrictive than what you mention.

 

Not sure I helped in any way shape or form. But I got to talk about my cool build so I'm happy

[RDU Neil]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Makes sense (your descriptions.) My idea of Clairsentience is that it just adds a lot of extra range to normal senses. Thus Clair w/sight means you can just see places normally out of range of normal site, up close and without worrying about barriers.

 

It still means you have to have a rough idea where to look in the first place, though. If I'm trying to find the Cheerleaders locker room, I gotta at least have an idea which direction Dallas is, focus that way, etc. In fact... without some mystic kinda detect added to it... simply seeing far away things with clairsentience could be nearly impossible. You'd have to almost travel, step by step... to get there. First, see the nearest highway you know about... follow that west... with a map for reference. Cut across country when you hit a certain intersection... hoping to hit a certain crossroad... follow that south, etc.

 

This could take many minutes, if not hours, to track your way, and that is knowing basically where you are going.

 

I don't think there is anything in clairsentience that lets you just "see automatically your target" even if you HAVE been there before. I may be wrong... been a while since I read the rules on it.

 

While hardly "cool" this tracking the way, step by step, could easily explain what Dr. Strange is doing in his sanctum for many hours before he comes down to the Defenders to say, "I've found where we need to go!"

[Stormspace]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

My original post was to see how this could be built using the 5th edition rules. Nexus has explained to me how he rules it in his game, but I was looking for a way to build this legitimately in a way that wouldn't be unbalancing. As Nexus explained, it is a low powered game, but I have plans for Shade and wanted to see if I could get some direction. Thx!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

My original post was to see how this could be built using the 5th edition rules. Nexus has explained to me how he rules it in his game' date=' but I was looking for a way to build this legitimately in a way that wouldn't be unbalancing. As Nexus explained, it is a low powered game, but I have plans for Shade and wanted to see if I could get some direction. Thx![/quote']

 

Doing this legit is a bit tricky. I really can't see a way to do this without some creative interpeting of the rules.

 

Clairsentience specifically states that it can't be used for targeting things like Mental Attacks, and I'd assume this also means it can't be used for targeting Teleport. On the other hand, it doesn't specifically state that it can't target a Teleport.

 

Another issue of the use of MegaScale. Keep in mind that MegaScale measures kilometer sized hexes (or a size of your choosing that's a lot larger than a normal hex). That means that when you pick your target hex, you can appear anywhere in there, which can be a fairly large area. Most of the GMs I know still treat a MegaScale Teleport as hitting a specific normal-sized hex, just one up to the MegaScaled range.

 

One "legal" way I'd allow this follows:

 

Teleportation Targeting: Clairsentience (Sight Group), x64 Range (9600"), Targeting (60 Active); Only To See Teleportation Target (-1). Real Cost 30.

 

It isn't linked to Teleportation because you'd need to use it before Teleporting, and Teleportation wouldn't be linked to it because you could still teleport without it, just not as accurately. The Only To See Teleportation Target Limitation means that you can't gain any knowledge about the target except for its location. You can't see what condition it's in, who's there or anything about what's going on. It just gives you enough feel for the area to pick a hex and Teleport to it as if you had LOS on it.

[aylwin13]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

This power is shown in the USPD on page 231. It's called Teleportation Sense. It's a Multipower, for both short and long range.

[nexus]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Looks like I was wrong Clairsentience can be used to target Teleportation. I still don't think this would allow a character to accuarately teleport over vast distances to places he's never been and has a vague or non existent notion of where they are though.

[Stormspace]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

If a PC were to try and clairvoy something they had no clue as to where it existed there'd be lots of penalties on the PER roll, right? But if it was something that he knew existed and had seen it in the past, perhaps from a photograph or TV, and knew the general area it was, could he still find it?

 

Short Range Teleport example: An apartment he knows is in that building. He's seen the inside of it, but has never been inside, so doesn't know exactly which floor it is on.

 

Megascale Teleport example: Teleporting to the Washington Monument in DC although he has never been to DC?

 

Another question comes to mind as well. In a low power game as you describe, would the PC need to calculate the distance to that apartment on the second floor using exact measurements? Meaning, would he have to survey the area and know how far from the wall he was and how far up so he could use a formula for determining the actual distance to the target, or is the PC's distance sense innate?

[nexus]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

If a PC were to try and clairvoy something they had no clue as to where it existed there'd be lots of penalties on the PER roll, right? But if it was something that he knew existed and had seen it in the past, perhaps from a photograph or TV, and knew the general area it was, could he still find it?

 

IMO only, it would require some sort of mystic special effect or some other really good explanation to make the attempt. I've seen, for example, the Leaning Tower of Pisa in pictures dozens of times. I know roughly where it is. I couldn't fly a plane there to save my life as I have no navigation skills or reference points on how to get there. I might be able to fly to the general area and look around for it and I'd know it when I saw it, but go directly there? I don't think anything but raw luck would allow that without assistance.

 

Short Range Teleport example: An apartment he knows is in that building. He's seen the inside of it, but has never been inside, so doesn't know exactly which floor it is on.

 

Doesn't know the floor? He could guess a floor and try, but it would be just that, a guess. If he knew the floor and the rough layout, he'd have more a chance of picking the right location.

 

Megascale Teleport example: Teleporting to the Washington Monument in DC although he has never been to DC?

 

Same difference, IMO. Without some kind of way to navigate just knowing "in general" where something is isn't enough to precisely target it. Could the character give hitting the city of Washington DC a shot if he knew generally where it was and how far? I'd allow that, but even if he succeeded where he appeared would be more or mess random. He could think look for the monument and teleport there. If the character had no clue where he was relative to Washington, or where it was could just blinding try to teleport there? Well, yes and no. He'd have pretty much no chance of actually getting there (throw a man sized dart at the spnning Earth blindfolded and dizzy, see if you can hit accurately), but he could teleport "somewhere".

With megascale you're still rolling to hit a Hex, but that Hex is very big and you (or you perception point) can appear anywhere inside it.

 

Another question comes to mind as well. In a low power game as you describe, would the PC need to calculate the distance to that apartment on the second floor using exact measurements? Meaning, would he have to survey the area and know how far from the wall he was and how far up so he could use a formula for determining the actual distance to the target, or is the PC's distance sense innate?

 

It would depend on the circumstances, but in general the character would have had to "memorize" the location to teleport there blind with no effort at all. To TP there blind without memorization and have a good chance, he'd have a good idea what the layout was (an Area Knowledge or rp developed familiarity with the area would help immensely such as when Shade teleported blind into the school during the riot. He didn't appear -right- next to a fire alarm but relatively close since he does know the building fairly well).

[RDU Neil]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Just my off the cuff rulings if I was GMing... don't hold me to 5ER accuracy here.

 

If a PC were to try and clairvoy something they had no clue as to where it existed there'd be lots of penalties on the PER roll' date=' right? [/quote']

 

Penalties to the point of nearly impossible as a "single action." If they took lots of time, and lots of little actions as I said above... essentially jumped their clairsentience point by point until they found it... sure... but that could take hours.

 

But if it was something that he knew existed and had seen it in the past, perhaps from a photograph or TV, and knew the general area it was, could he still find it?

 

I don't think this really changes anything, because a photo or image of the place is not seeing the place itself. Maybe it would make for a few less penalties on the clair roll, I dunno.

 

Short Range Teleport example: An apartment he knows is in that building. He's seen the inside of it, but has never been inside, so doesn't know exactly which floor it is on.

 

He'd still be guessing, and he'd end up where he aimed for, and hoped it wasn't in the middle of a solid object.

 

Megascale Teleport example: Teleporting to the Washington Monument in DC although he has never been to DC?

 

He could port blind, aiming for which megahex he thought was the right one (unlikely to get it right) and hopefully not end up in a solid object. (This being without any kind of clairsentience to guide him.)

 

Another question comes to mind as well. In a low power game as you describe, would the PC need to calculate the distance to that apartment on the second floor using exact measurements? Meaning, would he have to survey the area and know how far from the wall he was and how far up so he could use a formula for determining the actual distance to the target, or is the PC's distance sense innate?

 

There is no inate sense of "measurement" but there is a sense of distance. We are able to roughly judge how far I have to jump to get across an open pit in the floor. Same with t-port... we'd have a general idea of how far up and over we could get with one port... and hope we were right... just like the guy jumping over the pit hopes he is right. For a super who uses this power all the time... like an Olympic long jumper... I'd say their practiced judgement, call it a sense if you want, would be good most of the time.

 

I do this all the time in my games, for any kind of movement. I rarely put things in terms of game inches or even real world measurements, instead I say, "How far? Oh, you know he's easily within range of a lunging punch. IOW, half move attack no problem." or "You feel the ledge might just be out of range... but with a little extra effort... IOW, you might need to push your leaping for an extra inch or two."

 

I'd do the same for the t-port guy. "The second floor apartments are a comfortable 'port for you... third floor maybe... but you know fourth floor and above would be out of your normal range."

 

Again... just my gut suggestions as a GM... YMMV. (Also, this talk of a "low powered" game... well, lemme know if you find a way to build long distance t-port and clairsentience in a low power/point game. It was always tres expesive in the past. Megascale helps some, but not totally.)

[Stormspace]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

It would depend on the circumstances' date=' but in general the character would have had to "memorize" the location to teleport there blind with no effort at all. To TP there blind without memorization and have a good chance, he'd have a good idea what the layout was (an Area Knowledge or rp developed familiarity with the area would help immensely such as when Shade teleported blind into the school during the riot. He didn't appear -right- next to a fire alarm but relatively close since he does know the building fairly well).[/quote']

 

OK. Now add in the Clairsentience as a means of targeting the location. He clairvoys beyond the wall of the second floor in an attempt to see the inside of the apartment just on the other side. Based on the knowledge of the building in front of him and that the area he wants is behind that wall, could he then teleport "blind" using just direction and distance?

 

Also, in the riot example could he have Clairvoyed the hall in the school and then appeared precisely beside the fire alarm?

[nexus]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

OK. Now add in the Clairsentience as a means of targeting the location. He clairvoys beyond the wall of the second floor in an attempt to see the inside of the apartment just on the other side. Based on the knowledge of the building in front of him and that the area he wants is behind that wall, could he then teleport "blind" using just direction and distance?

 

To just teleport to the location just on the other side of the wall? Sure, but as RDU pointed out very well, he'd have to "hunt" clairvoyantly for a specific spot so it could take awhile.

 

Also, in the riot example could he have Clairvoyed the hall in the school and then appeared precisely beside the fire alarm?

 

In his case, no since his CV is linked to Teleport. It just shows him where he's going. A "regular" CV could have looked around for a fire alarm (would have taken some time) and targeted that area. Knowing the building and area, and have a CV to "target" would have reduced the penalties, likely substantially.

 

I think I am begininning to see a use for Absolute Range Sense.

[Stormspace]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Again... just my gut suggestions as a GM... YMMV. (Also' date=' this talk of a "low powered" game... well, lemme know if you find a way to build long distance t-port and clairsentience in a low power/point game. It was always tres expesive in the past. Megascale helps some, but not totally.)[/quote']

 

This is the current power build...

 

8 points : Shadow Walking: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) Teleportation 10" (20 Active Points); Activation Roll 11- (Bought off with 1 CP; -1), Side Effects: 11- Random Direction on Teleport, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used. Random direction determined by series of destinations flashing by quickly while causing extreme pain. Kevin doesn't always select the right location. ; -1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Must be used in Shadow Power Does not work in Direct Sunlight (-1/2) (Real Cost: 4) plus Clairsentience (Sight Group) (20 Active Points); Requires A PER Roll (-1), Conditional Power Power does not work in direct Sunlight - Shadows (-1), Linked (Shadow Shifting; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), One Sense Only: Vision (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

[Stormspace]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

I think I am begininning to see a use for Absolute Range Sense.

 

You and me both.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

.

 

I think I am begininning to see a use for Absolute Range Sense.

 

Friggin' A! Great point. Repped.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

The only power I am aware of in Hero that allows you to find locations is Mind Scan. I don't think Clairsentience allows you to find somewhere you've never been other than simply by looking everywhere, mind you I don't have the book with me.

 

I'd be willing to allow someone to buy Mind Scan in a modified version. The mechanics would be the same, but the roll would be against how difficult it is to find the place: treat the 'average place' as if it had a 10 EGO. Really famous/well known places might be worth a bonus (+1 to +5) and hidden places (secret bases etc) might be worth a penalty of -1 to -5. Use the same sort of modifiers for number of minds as number of places, and you are hott o trot. The amount you make the roll by will determine how accurately you can get there.

 

Alternatively you can just buy the advantage/adder for 'safe teleoprt' and hope your navigational skills are up to it....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Looks like I was wrong Clairsentience can be used to target Teleportation. I still don't think this would allow a character to accuarately teleport over vast distances to places he's never been and has a vague or non existent notion of where they are though.

 

Neither would I, but I'd let him look if he had the senses to do so, and Clairsentience is one of those. If it can't target for Teleport, it can still be used to memorize a Floating Location.

 

Granted, it's take some time to fine a place he's never been to before, especially if it's in an area he's completely unfamiliar with. Not quite impossible as long as it's all in the range of his Clairsentience though. Of course, if he wants to teleport into the hidden VIPER base and doesn't know where the base is, he's likely to spend a looooooooong time searching for it. Meanwhile his buddy with Streetwise can just ask around and get a tip to its location.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

The only power I am aware of in Hero that allows you to find locations is Mind Scan. I don't think Clairsentience allows you to find somewhere you've never been other than simply by looking everywhere, mind you I don't have the book with me.

 

I'd be willing to allow someone to buy Mind Scan in a modified version. The mechanics would be the same, but the roll would be against how difficult it is to find the place: treat the 'average place' as if it had a 10 EGO. Really famous/well known places might be worth a bonus (+1 to +5) and hidden places (secret bases etc) might be worth a penalty of -1 to -5. Use the same sort of modifiers for number of minds as number of places, and you are hott o trot. The amount you make the roll by will determine how accurately you can get there.

 

Alternatively you can just buy the advantage/adder for 'safe teleoprt' and hope your navigational skills are up to it....

 

Actually, Mind Scan doesn't find places and never has. It finds minds. Granted, minds have to be someplace, but even though you know the exact direction and distance and can even target the mind with normal attacks, it doesn't mean you have any information about the place the mind's in (though I'd allow someone to try to Teleport to the mind, but it would still be risky depending what's around the mind (could automatically teleport into a solid object).

[RDU Neil]

Re: Clairsentience and Teleport

 

Meanwhile his buddy with Streetwise can just ask around and get a tip to its location.

 

This is a good point... but on the same balance, I would certainly expect Clairsentience to be at least as effective as a simple Streetwise roll. Remember, Streetwise can takes hours/days to finally get the right information. The Clairesentience character could have been spending the same amount of time scanning the city by remote with possibly the same result.

 

Or... when the buddy comes back with, "I gotta tip that the base in the the Black Woods at the edge of town," then now Clairsentience dude can narrow his scan and possibly find a clue or whatever in much less time.

 

Clairsentience can be overpowerful, but that doesn't mean I'd want to neuter it completely.