Pulp Reading

[John Desmarais]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

You missed the novel 'The Mad Goblin' which is the Doc Savage equivalent novel to the Tarzan novel 'Lord of The Trees' . Both these novels are sequels to 'A Feast Unknown' noted above and both involve further adventures against the Nine. Also known by an alternative title 'Keepers Of The Secrets'.

 

And, unlike 'A Feast Unknown', these two won't bother the squeemish nearly as much.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

William Seabrook' date=' [i']The Magic Island.[/i]

 

Ooh, that's a good one, even if real voudonistas tend to go apoplectic at the very mention.

 

And while talking about Haiti, I'm surprised no one ever mentioned the Pennsylvania Marine who became a voodoo king in Haiti in the 20's. I mean, if the 'white king of the savages' isn't pure pulp, then what is?

[Steve Long]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

real voudonistas tend to go apoplectic at the very mention

 

I think that might even make it better. If the pulps, comics, and movies have taught us anything, it's that tweaking or distorting existing folklore and mythology can lead to some fun stories.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

I think that might even make it better. If the pulps' date=' comics, and movies have taught us anything, it's that tweaking or distorting existing folklore and mythology can lead to some fun stories. [/quote']

 

Almost a rule in fact for pulp - never try to be to accurate or grittily realistic - in pulp rumours almost always turn out to be true...

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

To "Doc Democracy" Yes and no. I would have said that rumours always turn out to have some substance to them rather than "always turn out to be true". After all there are all those "ghost" stories that turn out to be fronts for criminals smuggling things or conducting unmentionable experiments !

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

To "Doc Democracy" Yes and no. I would have said that rumours always turn out to have some substance to them rather than "always turn out to be true". After all there are all those "ghost" stories that turn out to be fronts for criminals smuggling things or conducting unmentionable experiments !

 

 

It's the same principle I think. If there is a rumour of a lost tribe sitting in a city of gold - you can bet your bottom dollar that it is true (in enough aspects as make any difference) but if the local ghost is suddenly being seen by everyone and his dog then the 'fact' of the ghost is almost certainly false!

[ThothAmon]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Historical accuracy (or accuracy of any sort really) tends to be anathema in the pulps. I can think of many pulp tales of lost civilisations which just couldn't exist as written, survival of prehistoric creatures etc etc.

 

Pulp reality is a different sort of reality and should be read accordingly

[Vondy]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

For Hard Boiled Detectives (I don't know whether you are including them, but most of the big ones were born in the pulps) I would recommend Phillip Marlowe, the Continental Op, and Sam Spade. A good introduction to Marlowe that doesn't require reading a novel is "Trouble is My Business*," which is a compilation of Chandler's favorite Marlowe Shorts. Hammet's Continental Op is best experienced through Red Harvest (novel) and a compilation of short stories entitled "The Continental Op." Spade, as always, is best experienced through the Maltese Falcon (the short stories he appeared in are hard to find). Two Old Time radio detectives also come to mind: Nero Wolff and Barry Craig, Confidential Investigator are definate musts. A few radio shows featuring the latter two, and some Marlowe radio stories, can be found for free at:

 

http://www.radiolovers.com/pages/mysteries.html

 

I think Ellery Queen is a little too "armchair cozy" to be a good example of the definitive hard-boiled PI as he came to be understood in the pulps; and Mike Hammer is post pulp era.

 

A related pulp genre to the hard-boiled detectives is the crusading G-Men subgenre, which was popular in the latter pulp era, and into the 50's. For this I would recommend "Ace G-Man," who appeared both in his own title, and in the "Suicide Squad" stories. To this end, TSR's old Gangbusters game isn't too bad as a reference, either. And you might look at the "Dick Tracy" comic strips.

 

A weird spinoff of this genre is the G-Man fighting foreign invasion stories, which have a heavy dose of the Bloody Pulp genre in them, and are probably inspired by the rise of fascism in the 30's and Communism in the 50's. Two excellent examples of this cross-genre are "Operator 5, America's Undercover Ace" (who fought the purple invasion!) and "Dusty Ayers" (the latter has a heavier bloody pulp aviation angle).

 

There are of course the Bloody Pulps, which are, essentially zany occult / super-science / just plain weird war pulps. The quintessential bloody pulp is "G-8 and His Battle Aces." Read a few G-8 stories and you've got this genre down cold. Further reading is moot.

 

For the Masked Avengers I think "The Avenger," "The Spider," and "The Shadow" are the best examples, but three early comics come to mind as well: "The Phantom," "Phantom Lady," and the early Batman stories where he is still carrying a gun are good examples. For modern pastiche, you can't go wrong with "The Rocketeer," "Airboy," and "Tom Strong." I know "Doc Savage" was born in the pulps, but he strikes me as being more of a super-hero than a masked avenger. One emerged out of the other, however, so Doc is a good example of progression (he's the proverbial missing link).

 

For science fiction pulps "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon" are really the pinnacle. Most of the other stuff is really bad. However, its good to keep some of the motiffs of the bad stuff in mind. Journey's to the center of the earth, lost and hidden lands, a venus populated with amazon women, bubble helmets, ray guns, rocket ships that take off and land, etc. Actually, the Barsoom stories by Edgar Rice Burroughs are also pillars of this pulp genre.

 

For Adventure pulps I think Tarzan is critical. Also, though he predates the pulps, Allan Quartermaine is a very important character who impacted the pulps. As is the literary (non-pulp) work The Heart of Darkness gives an excellent idea of what people (and this was expressed in the pulps) thought about Africa. Another critical character for adventure pulps is Solomon Kane. Some of Howard's other adventure stories, some set in the southwest, have also been compiled into a collection recently. Zorro also fits into this category, I think, though some people would think he's more superheroic.

 

For Weird Menace the "Secret Six" and any old copies of "Terror Tales" and "Horror Stories" are good, though the latter crosses over into the horror genre. I never cared for weird menace myself. Actually, the quintessential example of weird menace, though it appeared after the pulp era and contains humor, is Scooby-Doo.

 

Horror was also very popular during the pulp era. I'm not very versed with written horror pulp material, but any of the old monster mash movies would probably do. Personally, modern horror, and the horror of the 19th century is superior to most of what came out during the pulp era. However, we cannot forget HP Lovecraft and his Cthulu works, which create a genre all their own, I think.

 

Westerns, which were popular during and after the pulp era, probably deserve their own genre (though many western stories appeared in the pulps). But, "The Lone Ranger" is a good one for this. The old Boot Hill game is passable, but not worth buying unless you can find it at a discount. A lot of critical essays discuss how the Pulp's Hard Boiled detective was the Dime Store Novel's cowboy recast for the modern day.

 

One other thing to consider is that several villians in the pulp era were popular enough to merit having their own titles, and were more interesting than the heroes who faced them. The most notorious of these is Sax Rohmer's Fu Manchu stories.

 

You probably don't have much need for the spicy pulps... unless you're taking the line in unexpected directions

 

 

*Raymond Chandler wrote an intro to Trouble is My Business that is the be all and end all assessment of what the hard boiled detective was all about, and is excellent reading for any game-master who wants to understand the genre. If you can't find a version with his intro let me know and I'll find a way to post it.

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

To "Von D Man" "You are a blinding flash and a deafening report" But you left the works of E E 'doc' Smith and John W Campbell out of your S F pulps ! Shame !

[Vondy]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

To "Von D Man" "You are a blinding flash and a deafening report" But you left the works of E E 'doc' Smith and John W Campbell out of your S F pulps ! Shame !

 

Why? I can think of some others I also left out, too. In fact, if you look at my list of SF pulps, you'll note I only mentioned one author by name. Aside from the Hard Boiled detectives I tried to focus on major characters or publications that represent the feel of the work from a nostalgia perspective, not authors. The reason for this is, the Hard Boiled detectives were defined by a handful of writers who were as well known as their characters were (sure, there were a lot of detective writers out there, but you can count the one's who set the tone and defined the genre on one hand). Most of the other genres had significant contributions from a wider pool of authors. As a result, focusing on individual authors, rather than major characters and series, won't do much good. And I don't really care for E.E. Doc Smith, anyways.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Strangely enough, the SF pulps are perhaps over-represented in available reading, though they may masquerade as serious books. Quite a few of the field's "classics" from the Thirties and Forties are simply reworked versions of stories that originally appeared in the pulps. And they can be found through your local library (especially if it has a good exchange program with other libraries.)

 

The "Science" chapter of Villainy Amok has useful material on the stock Mad Scientist character endemic to pulp SF, and what he might be up to.

 

Trying to remember the name of that novel where the protagonist winds up in a world where all the pulp SF cliches are literally true. "What Mad World"? Leiber?

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

To "Von D Man" Yes but E E Smith(and to a lesser extent John W Campbell) were among THE most popular authors of S F back in the Pulp era; as important to S F pulps as Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett were to crime ! Pulp S F was more than just the comic strip versions represented by "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon" and while I don't expect you to mention Ray Cummings or David H Keller I thought that it was reasonable to expect some mention of"Doc" Smith. If one is going to run a galaxy hopping superscience spacefaring campaign Smith is almost a must for reference purposes.

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

To "SKJAM" I think that that book is "What Mad Universe" by Frederic Brown.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Yes, that's it.

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Another writer of the pulp era worth looking for is Robert E Howard. Howard is best known for his "Conan" stories of course, but he wrote a lot of other pukp stories as well , including horror, two fisted adventure, westerns and even pirate stiories. Some of them have been reprinted and are available, others may not be. I have had trouble trying to track down his Horror/Western "Breakenridge Elkins" stories for example !

[BlackSword]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Two Old Time radio detectives also come to mind: Nero Wolff and Barry Craig, Confidential Investigator are definate musts. A few radio shows featuring the latter two, and some Marlowe radio stories, can be found for free at:

Was just out to lunch with a co-worker. He has the XM Sattelite Radio. One of the stations is Old Time Radio and it includes some of the classic Radio Shows. While driving we heard part of Dragnet, and he said they occasionaly play Nero Wolfe stories as well.

*Raymond Chandler wrote an intro to Trouble is My Business that is the be all and end all assessment of what the hard boiled detective was all about, and is excellent reading for any game-master who wants to understand the genre. If you can't find a version with his intro let me know and I'll find a way to post it.

The Intro to Simple of Art of Murder (Vintage Crime version at least) has an essay by Chandler of the same title. In it he is fairly critical of some other styles of crime fiction. Its been a while since I read it, but it was a good take on crime fiction and compared his style with that of some other writers of the time.

[Lamrok]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

The Intro to Simple of Art of Murder (Vintage Crime version at least) has an essay by Chandler of the same title. In it he is fairly critical of some other styles of crime fiction. Its been a while since I read it' date=' but it was a good take on crime fiction and compared his style with that of some other writers of the time.[/quote']

 

I'd like to point out that I think Chandler's "Simple Art of Murder" essay is the best starting point I've ever seen for running a mystery in a role-playing game. His criticism of the typical "English" mystery points out exactly why those types of mysteries don't work as well when you have a group of players running down clues. If Pulp Hero wasn't bound by page or copyright restrictions, I'd say this essay deserved a place in it.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

List of Historial Novels - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_novels

 

List of _________ - Wikipedia Search

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=&fulltext=Search

 

Cheers

 

QM

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

I am just about to start a (modern) novel that looks , from reading the blurb, to be very Pulpish. Said to combine "The Curse of the Pharaohs,Indiana Jones, a good measure of the Arabian Nights, a touch of Rider Haggard and maybe even a hint of Burroughs". It is "The Sleeper In The Sands" by Tom Holland (Little, Brown and Co U K, 1998, 365 pages, Trade Pb). I will try to let people know what I think of it when I get it finished sometime in the next week or so. Has anyone else read the novel and , if so, what did you think ?

[BlackSword]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Picked up Mickey Spillane, The Mike Hammer Collection Volume 1 and Volume 2. Each Volume has 3 novles.

 

Not sure Hammer fits more in Pulp or Dark Champions. Very hard boiled, with some great descriptions and good action. Hammer is the ultimate tough guy who doesn't mind pistol-whipping someone (or just shooting them in the leg) to get them to talk or shut up, depending on the situation. Also some pretty good story ideas, especially if you want to deal with vice crimes (which to me head towards DC).

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

The first Mike Hammer novel "I The Jury" is 1947. Sort of the end of the Pulp period and i'm not sure that a Mike Hammer type would work too well, especially if he is supposed to be part of a team. Having a supporting character of a very violent P I who gets involved with the P Cs could be very useful. It might even be suggested that "Mickey Spillane" is simply Race Williams" taken just a touch further a censorship relaxed a little after the war !

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Oops I ment that "Mike Hammer" is simply Race Williams taken a bit further. Confusing my writers with their creations ! Tsk! Tsk !

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Well here I was , looking at my Yahoo Doc Savage Group on a sunday morning ,when I came across a reference to a publishing company called "Black Coat Press" in California which has published a number of pulp stories, including a story about a "Doc Arsin" who sounds like a French Doc Savage, but predates the famous American pulp hero ! PUlp fans might be interested in checking them out. I will try to post a link later today !

[Agent 13]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

http://www.blackcoatpress.com/

[st barbara]

Re: Pulp Reading

 

Thank you "Agent 13". Would you believe (to quote Harlan Ellison) "Life got in the way" of me posting that link ? (Actually it was having to do my weekly shopping)