Game of Thrones

[Tyrant]

Man,

I am Soooo looking forward to running a game in that setting.

The map is easy to get, there doesn't seem to be too much magic to give one a headache, and the Hero system is idealy suited for this low magic fantasy style.

 

Anyone else thought about running a game in George R R Martin's setting?

 

Tyrant

[Old Man]

Might not be as easy as it sounds--there's a hell of a lot of intrigue and politics in that series, and a distinct lack of non-human foes south of the Wall. But if you've got intelligent players who actually don't have to be led around by the nose, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

Also, while it's been low magic so far, there are hints that it isn't going to stay that way. But then again the guy averages one book every two years, so your campaign might be over before you have to worry about any of that.

 

Excellent, excellent books. Wish the guy could write faster, but I won't mind as long as he eventually finishes with no drop in quality...

[Tyrant]

Same here!

I was on the G RR Martin website earlier.

He's still working on the fourth book.

Now again, if the series keeps up the level of quality we've come to expect, I don't mind the wait. But there's still 2 more books after this. I just hope he doesn't punk out and decide that he's had enough before the series is finished.

 

That would p*** me off to no end...

[Old Man]

Actually there's three books left after this one. Book 4 was supposed to be "A Dance with Dragons", but it got pushed back to 5; Feast for Crows is up next. I forget what the other two books are supposed to be called.

 

In other words, the series probably won't be finished until 2009, assuming GRRM maintains his current pace and doesn't see fit to add any more books. This is why I usually don't buy in to fantasy series that are yet unfinished... but AGoT was sooooo gooooood...

[allen]

Originally posted by Old Man

Actually there's three books left after this one. Book 4 was supposed to be "A Dance with Dragons", but it got pushed back to 5; Feast for Crows is up next. I forget what the other two books are supposed to be called.

 

In other words, the series probably won't be finished until 2009, assuming GRRM maintains his current pace and doesn't see fit to add any more books. This is why I usually don't buy in to fantasy series that are yet unfinished... but AGoT was sooooo gooooood...

 

Ah, Old Man, you are not alone... I too don't usually start reading a series until it's over, but Game of Thrones was really good (and I don't even like "epic" fantasy very much). And the next two were just as good... which was hard to believe, given my experience with other series in the same genre/sub-genre.

 

I also read somewhere that the series was at least six books... have you heard it's definitely six?

 

allen

 

Ps. I find the time GRRM takes to write the books to be comforting. I mean at least he's not just hacking them out.

 

Pps. There's a novella in the latest issue of Dragon Magazine (Arms of the Kraken I think it's called). I believe it's an excerpt from Feast of Crows.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by allen

Ah, Old Man, you are not alone... I too don't usually start reading a series until it's over, but Game of Thrones was really good (and I don't even like "epic" fantasy very much). And the next two were just as good... which was hard to believe, given my experience with other series in the same genre/sub-genre.

 

I also read somewhere that the series was at least six books... have you heard it's definitely six?

 

allen

 

Ps. I find the time GRRM takes to write the books to be comforting. I mean at least he's not just hacking them out.

 

Pps. There's a novella in the latest issue of Dragon Magazine (Arms of the Kraken I think it's called). I believe it's an excerpt from Feast of Crows.

 

Definately 6 books. The first three a five year break. Three more books.

[allen]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

Definately 6 books. The first three a five year break. Three more books.

 

Hallelujah

[MuscaDomestica]

Slight spoilers

 

I thought it was going to be 7 books, Feast of Crows was added later because the five year span was too interesting to be backstory... Which should be good, no major character deaths in this book.

 

I am not saying I want my characters to all live and be happy even if they act like idiots but there was a point in the third book where I put the book down and immediately started asking friends and posting on boards to see if it started to go a little better for the characters... because I was about to stop reading the book after that scene (It should be obvious which scene it is... and I would like to give the Martin points for doing something that shocking.)

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by MuscaDomestica

Slight spoilers

 

I thought it was going to be 7 books, Feast of Crows was added later because the five year span was too interesting to be backstory... Which should be good, no major character deaths in this book.

 

That would make a HUGE amount of sense, since the next one was suppose to be 'A Dance with Dragons'. So we have a Feast for Crows as a link between the two trilogies... very nice.

[allen]

Originally posted by MuscaDomestica

Slight spoilers

 

I thought it was going to be 7 books, Feast of Crows was added later because the five year span was too interesting to be backstory... Which should be good, no major character deaths in this book.

 

I have to admit, hearing this makes me go 'uh-oh'. But I'll attempt to swallow my doubt, since the man has written three entertaining books.

 

*SPOILERS AHOY*

 

Concerning character death: For me, that's one of the definite strengths of the series. The epic fantasy of nowadays (I guess specifically, Jordan, Goodkin, et al.) truly isn't my cup of tea; but Martin uses death to bring one story in the larger one to a close. For instance, Ned Stark is central to the first novel, and when you reach the end of Game of Thrones, his story is over. I mean, yeah, it's tragic -- even Tywin Lannister's death is tragic (to me at least -- I could sympathize with the man -- and I guess I should say presumed death). Basically, some individual stories comprising the series have their own closure, and I like that.

[Tyrant]

I keep thinking that HERO would be ideal to run a game set in Westeros.

 

Now granted, the books aren't finished yet and we don't know everything there is about the world, but I think there's enough that I could run a game set in the seven kingdoms.

 

Magic would be the only hard thing to figure out. But I guess how one handles the issue depends on what time peroid the game is set. But if I were to run it, I would most likely require a high level of "increased time" and certainly "concentraton".

[allen]

Originally posted by Tyrant

Magic would be the only hard thing to figure out. But I guess how one handles the issue depends on what time peroid the game is set. But if I were to run it, I would most likely require a high level of "increased time" and certainly "concentraton".

 

My opinion may change as the series progresses, but if I were to run a campaign within the setting, I wouldn't allow the PCs magic. In fact, I might consider... ummm... convincing one or more players to take a Psych Lim: Doesn't Believe In Magic (or Believes Magic No Longer Exists or whatever). Mainly because, I think the "return of magic" story/plot element is one of the more interesting aspects of the story, and would like to capture that over the course of the campaign.

[Tyrant]

Hmmm,

that's a pretty good point.

Actually, I kind of like the idea of running a gritty setting like Westeros without magic. That way, when magic does play a part, it has that much more impact.

 

What I think will really fit in nicely with the setting, are the mass combat combat rules that Steve mentioned would be included in Fantasy HERO.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but one of the MAJOR beefs I have with most fantasy games on the market today, is the utter lack of effort in comming up with playable mass combat rules. And considering how often a fantasy setting is affected by war, I find that fact all the more annoying. It grates on my nerves that such an obvious dramatic tool gets treated, if at all, like an afterthought.

 

I've often wanted to run a "from rags to riches" game, in which my players carve out a kingdom or empire for themselves. But because running a war is so hard in most games, we usually either have to skim over the details, which really sucks, or we have to fudge a bunch of rules that only barely work. I hate it!

 

But if Fantasy HERO gives me the tools I need to run mass battles in a proper way, and maybe some suggestions for managing armies, I'll be an instant convert.

 

Tyrant

[allen]

Originally posted by Tyrant

What I think will really fit in nicely with the setting, are the mass combat combat rules that Steve mentioned would be included in Fantasy HERO.

 

yessir, good point. i think you are correct... it would be difficult to capture the 'feel' of the series w/o armies on the move and clashing, and a good set of mass combat rules would do wonders.

 

allen

 

ps. although, the novels avoid describing battle scenes as i recall... the occassional flashback or character describing the events of the battle to another, but otherwise avoided.

 

still, i think in an RPG it'd be important to get those in there and allow the players to play an active part in the outcome.

[CleverName]

Okay, I'm going to mention d20 here.

 

(Pauses to put up massive ED shielding.)

 

I believe the next Dungeon/Polyhedron (#157) is going to have d20 writeup of Westeros.

 

Sould be a good resource.

[CleverName]

Originally posted by Tyrant

I keep thinking that HERO would be ideal to run a game set in Westeros.

 

Now granted, the books aren't finished yet and we don't know everything there is about the world, but I think there's enough that I could run a game set in the seven kingdoms.

 

Magic would be the only hard thing to figure out. But I guess how one handles the issue depends on what time peroid the game is set. But if I were to run it, I would most likely require a high level of "increased time" and certainly "concentraton".

 

I think that magic in Westeros should not be weilded by PCs other than via items.

 

Its really a game of politics, war and interaction.

[Hermit]

An excellent series. If anyone ever starts a Fantasy HERO PBEM on this, I would not be surprised if it got more takers than it could handle.

[allen]

Westeros in Dragon #307

 

An article concerning Westeros will appear in Dragon #307 (May issue)... here's the blurb:

 

"Westeros Campaign by Wolfgang and Shelly Baur

 

Visist the blood and pageantry of Westeros, the world created by George R.R. Martin in his best-selling series, 'A Song of Ice and Fire.' From the brothers of the Night's Watch to the treachery of House Lannister, Westeros is world of epic scope filled with danger, deceit, and ancient secrets. This special setting includes a poster-size mapg of the continent of Westeros, the tools you need to adventure in this amazing world, and a detailed look at the setting's most prominent characters, organizations, and noble houses. Plus, an exclusive interview with George R.R. Martin."

 

Anyway, I'll try to post a Table of Contents when I get the issue next month... if nothing else, it might make a good primer for players unfamilar with the novels, and a poster-sized map is always a plus.

[Old Man]

From georgerrmartin.com:

 

"The May DRAGON (issue #307) will be a special Westeros issue. A spendid cover painting, by Hugo-nominated artist Donato Giancola, depicts everybody's favorite red priestess, Melisandre of Asshai. Inside, readers will find art and articles about the world of the Seven Kingdoms, including scenarios and suggestions for role-playing campaigns set on the Wall, or amongst the backstabbers and intriguers of King's Landing. The issue will also feature a full-color fold out map of Westeros, north and south, and a brand new interview with yours truly."

 

Should be a good resource.

[ShadowRaptor]

Not only the Dragon 307 article, but I also read somewhere that there is going to be a hardback campaign setting about his books later this year for d20.

[artmc]

RE: Game of Thrones

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

Not only the Dragon 307 article, but I also read somewhere that there is going to be a hardback campaign setting about his books later this year for d20.

 

Okay here is the product blurb:

 

GoO gets 'A Song of Ice and Fire'

It contains a link for the whole press release. It seems like it will be both Tri-Stat & d20, in seperate rule books. I believe it will be full color, but I could be very wrong. It is slated for autumn 2003. Guardians of Order getting this is a big surprise, since Martin is a long time GURPS player/fan.

 

Several systems can do Westeros/A Song of Ice and Fire, very well:

Hero (of course!!)

Pendragon

The Riddle of Steel (my current choice for this)

GURPS

Tri-Stat (I really want to see what GoO does with this)

d20 (needs changes, but could work)

 

Others systems could work as well, though.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

* art *

[AnotherSkip]

Frankly i would like to run/play the previous age of magic....

 

Those few notes and the extrapolation of the magic and dragnos would be a WORLD of wonders. and no books likely to screw up the details if he focusses no a place i would have liked to cover also/have allready covered.

 

Besides the Star eyed guy sounds pretty cool.

[Old Man]

I'm actually a lot more interested in the non-Westerosi part of that setting. The Dothraki, Qarth, Braavos, Old Valyria, Meereen and Astapor... all much more exotic than Westeros, Wall or not.

[allen]

So as stated elsewhere, Dragon #307 has some d20 info for gaming in Westeros. I've read through the material and brief summary and comments follow if anyone's interested...

 

It's about 18 pages in length, plus there's an interview with George R.R. Martin. The gaming stuff is authored by Wolfgang and Shelly Baur. It begins with a page and half summary of the history of Westeros. Then moves on to discuss two possible campaigns ideas. I'll summarize with section headings...

 

THE SAGA OF WESTEROS

 

Westeros History, Abridged [maybe 1 full page of text]

>House Targaryen

>House Baratheon

>House Lannister

 

The Secret War [1 paragraph concerning what's going on north of the Wall]

 

Sidebar: The Kingsguard and King's Hand

 

THE AWAKENING DARKNESS: THE ICE WALL CAMPAIGN

 

The Wall

>The Night's Watch [4 para. descrip.]

>The Keeps [2 para. descrip.]

>Mole Town [1 para. descrip.]

 

The Night's Watch Ranger [description of Prestige Class]

 

Sidebar: Jon Snow [character sheet]

 

The Starks of Winterfell [4 para. descrip mostly concerning Eddard and Catelyn's children]

>The Magic of the North [3 para. descrip -- no rules]

 

King Stannis I Baratheon [5 para. descrip of why King Stannis comes north with his army]

>Religion in the North [3 para. descrip. -- no rules]

 

Sidebar: Melisandre [character sheet]

 

Beyond the Wall [6 para. descrip. -- mostly concerning Mance Rayder and the Free Folk]

 

Barrow-Wights, Giants, and the Others [4 para. descrip -- no rules]

 

Boxed Text: Monster Equivalents [5 monsters from the novels and their D&D equivalent]

 

Ice Wall Adventures [4 plot seeds]

 

THE CLASH OF KINGS: THE ROYAL CAMPAIGN FOR THE THRONE OF WESTEROS

[this section describes, in brief, the five kings vying for the throne of Westeros, their allies, and "stronghold."]

 

The Lannisters [7 paragraph description]

>Lannister Adventure Seeds [3 plot seeds]

>Lannister Bannermen [describes 4 allies]

>Stonghold: King's Landing

 

Sidebar: Tyrion Lannister [character sheet]

 

King Stannis I Baratheon [4 para. descrip.]

>Baratheon Adventure Seeds [4 plot seeds]

>Baratheon Bannermen [describes 3 allies]

>Stonghold: Dragonstone Island [1 para. descrip.]

 

Sidebar: Sandor Clegane [character sheet]

 

Boxed Text: The Master of Coin [descrip. of Littlefinger]

 

The Targaryen Heir [4 para. descrip.]

>Targaryen Bannermen [describes 4 allies]

>Stronghold [1 paragraph]

 

Sidebar: King Stannis I Baratheon [character sheet]

 

King of the Iron Islands [7 para. descrip.]

>Iron Island Adventures [3 plot seeds]

>Greyjoy Bannermen [describes 2 allies]

>Stronghold: Pyke, Capital of the Iron Islands

 

Sidebar: Daenerys Targaryen [character sheet -- watch out! she can cast Burning Hands 7 times a day... yeah, that's sarcasm.]

 

Boxed Text: Dragons of Westeros [2 para. descrip.]

 

Boxed Text: How Westeros Is Different [focuses on four differences btwn Westeros and "typical D&D campaign world": Seasons, History, Mass Combat, and Social Class, Followers, and Wealth.]

 

The Starks, Kings of the North [9 para. descrip.]

>Stark Bannermen [Describes 4 allies]

>Stronghold: Winterfell

 

Sidebar: The Brotherhood without Banners [couple of paragraphs about Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr]

 

Box Text: Magic In Westeros [4 paragraphs, describing 3 options]

 

NOTE: I noted above which characters were given character sheets; a level and class are noted for most other characters where they appear in the text.

 

One caveat: Some of the material is wrong or misleading.

 

For instance, page 91, in the section concerning Davos Seaworth: "...he saved Stannis' Dragonstone Island by bringing in food during a seige." It was the siege of Storm's End.

 

Page 92, in the section concerning Barristan Selmy: "His Dornish connections could move the Tyrells to Daenerys' side." Huh? The Tyrells are in Highgarden; the Martell's in Dorne...

 

To be blunt, I've only read the novels once, it's been a couple months since I finished the latest one, and I caught some mistakes. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more.

 

Anyway, to sum this up... might be good to get the 'creative juices flowing' for potential GMs, might be alright as a sort of 'player primer', and it does have a pullout map of Westeros which is the size of a small poster (not of the continent, I'm afraid)... Also provides plenty of classes and levels for characters and -- if you agree with the classes and/or levels, or aren't picky -- this could provide a good yardstick for stating them out in other systems...

[AnotherSkip]

I'm Too Picky.

 

(Burning hands _seven Times a Day_ Woohooooo HOt hot hot hot.. Stab, Kill, Okies now off to the three dragons..... [actually in AD&D it is Stab Burn Stab Burn Stab Burn Stab Burn Stab Burn Stab Burn Stab Burn, Kill.] ASSUMING OF COURSE you get her alone)