X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

My own house rule was changing into your "costume" took at least 1 Turn (12 Segments), while Instant Change was... well... instant.

 

Colussus would need either Multiform or Instant Change (which in 5e is that Transform Power I started with). Both work, while Instant Change requires more work to build the character but 1 character sheet and Multiform is simpler to build the character but needs 2 character sheets.

 

Is the trade-off actually time and a piece of paper? Not really, but I like to draw odd conclusions now and again.

[Enforcer84]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

I always did the whole thing as a no range energy blast and forcefield.

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.

BTW; before they brought him back, I had resurrected Peter in the background of a campaign I was tinkering with (i e, for my amusement sicne it would never see the light of day). I had him and a few other dead mutuants raised by a guy whose powers were the ressurection and further mutation of individuals. His mutation had demonic overtones and his army of the reborn all had their powers slightly altered. Colossus came back his form was cold iron, darker, heavier, able to put the hurt on fey.

[keithcurtis]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Well yes.

 

But the default for going from normal to Hero ID takes time and a costume (a silly small amount of time. A single phase I believe, but it's still time), that isn't the case for Pete.

 

HERO 5th seems to think that you can do the same thing just by turning on your powers.

 

I feel Instant Change had a reason to exist in the old rules and still long for those days. If Pete can go instantly to HERO ID, he should pay for it in some way.

 

 

Odd perhaps given that I don't care about the total points in the least...

Why not just tweak the legality a bit and give him Fast Draw on his OIHID powers? If he makes the skill roll, it only takes a half phase. He can change and punch in the same phase.

 

Keith "OK, ya big Russian galoot, draw! HOLY @&^@*!!!" Curtis

[Fox1]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Finally reached my book.

 

For OIHID the following is noted:

 

"For this limitation to be valid, the character must have some difficulty changing forms - the change must take at least a Full Phase, if not longer (during which the character can do nothing else), and/or they must be other difficulties or ways to prevent him from chaning identities."

 

Bolding mine.

 

The limit doesn't work for Peter. Anything that gets around the limit means you can't take the limit.

 

So, go with Multi-form.

 

The nice thing about this is you don't HAVE to make up the second character sheet (i.e. the 'normal' Peter) unless you intend on using it. Multi-form in that case is 'just activating the power', i.e. no point difference or work at all. Which may be why the books suggests that method.

[assault]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

So, go with Multi-form.

 

The nice thing about this is you don't HAVE to make up the second character sheet (i.e. the 'normal' Peter) unless you intend on using it. Multi-form in that case is 'just activating the power', i.e. no point difference or work at all. Which may be why the books suggests that method.

 

Nah. Give him a force field, and link everything else to it.

 

He activates it, and everything turns on. He gets stunned, and everything turns off.

 

It sucks to be him, sometimes.

 

But he gets to buy a lot of stuff for his points. He just needs to make sure that some of it is Combat Luck, for use when his powers aren't activated.

[Fox1]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Nah. Give him a force field, and link everything else to it.

 

He activates it, and everything turns on. He gets stunned, and everything turns off..

 

 

I've seen him remain armored and stunned. It's unconsciousness that forces him back (and Multi-form has that limit given for it).

 

You could still do it with forcefield I suppose with the right advantages/limits. But now we're into cute tricks again just to avoid a Multi-form that doesn't actually cost him anything? Seems odd.

 

Simple is good. Simple is best. Go with Simple.

 

 

 

But he gets to buy a lot of stuff for his points. He just needs to make sure that some of it is Combat Luck, for use when his powers aren't activated.

 

I typically buy Combat Luck for ALL superheroes who don't have full coverage resistant defenses from another source.

 

It reflects their status as hard to kill superheroes to me.

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

After a thorough reading of Multiform, OIHID, Shape Shift, and Transform, I'm leaning towards Multiform as the closest way to ape the comics.

 

Not that the others aren't valid (hey, I was pretty convinced with the Transform/OIHID path), but pretty much all the pieces are in place with Multiform.

 

Shape Shift allows a 10% Mass alteration, which doesn't really work since he gains 11" of height and doubles his weight.

 

You get Reversion (-½) for Multiform to show that he loses his Osmium form with a loss of consciousness. I'm going with a -½ instead of a -1 so that Stunning won't be enough to revert.

 

Damage carries over between forms, so that doesn't defy comic story arcs.

 

They specifically mention the 15 Pt Multiform Amnesia Disadvantage for a character that has seperate memories (Hulk was like that at times).

[assault]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

But now we're into cute tricks again just to avoid a Multi-form that doesn't actually cost him anything? Seems odd.

 

The problem is that he has a disadvantage. His powers aren't usually available to him, and go away when he is unconscious. But he doesn't get a points break for it.

 

That's not necessarily unacceptable, except that he may be associating with other characters that _did_ get points breaks for their disadvantages.

 

None of this matters for an NPC, but you could reasonably expect a PC to complain about it.

 

Ultimately, of course, this problem is a result of trying to exactly model a published character rather than building your own character that's similar. Building your own character would allow you to use OIHID, which is the traditional technique for building characters like this.

 

Mind you, I've built some rather interesting characters with Multiform. My Ultra Boy homage worked particularly nicely. So nicely, in fact, that I banned him.

[Supreme]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Why not just tweak the legality a bit and give him Fast Draw on his OIHID powers? If he makes the skill roll, it only takes a half phase. He can change and punch in the same phase.

 

Keith "OK, ya big Russian galoot, draw! HOLY @&^@*!!!" Curtis

Or just play it right and save your action until the phase before you go, change, then punch on the next phase.

[Vanguard00]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Or just play it right and save your action until the phase before you go' date=' change, then punch on the next phase.[/quote']

No! No thinking! Just do!

 

Sheesh. What are you, a roleplayer?

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Here are some stats for Colossus. Sound right? Remember, I never actually get to play Champions (I haven't played in this millenium), so I'm doing this purely for "enjoyment".

 

STR 70

DEX 20

CON 38

SPD 5

 

PD 40h/r30h ??? Too high, to low?

ED 40h/r40h ??? Too high, to low?

 

10 Osmium Flesh: Knockback Resistance -5"

 

5 Osmium Flesh: Lack Of Weakness (-5) for Normal Defense

 

15 Osmium Form: LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Extended Breathing: 1 END per 20 Minutes; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week)

 

5 Reflective Iris: Sight Group Flash Defense (5 points)

 

5 Unstable Molecule Suit: Armor (5 PD/5 ED); Activation 10- (-1 1/4), OIF (-1/2)

 

5 Xavier Training: Mental Defense (8 points total)

 

Does Colossus have any Combat training that would translate into MA? I think so. Also, I'd assume several skill levels - especially 3 or so with fastball specials.

[assault]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Here are some stats for Colossus. Sound right?

...

Does Colossus have any Combat training that would translate into MA? I think so. Also, I'd assume several skill levels - especially 3 or so with fastball specials.

 

It all looks fair enough.

 

Colossus has clearly had combat training, so knock yourself out with the MA and skill levels. Or you could build an early version of him and give him little or no such stuff.

 

Just for a laugh... if you wanted to give him some odd skills, you could assume that he had done a bit of military training before he joined the X-Men. The Soviet military was a conscript force, after all.

 

Of course, this is the beginning of the road towards creating a "homage", rather than a "true representation" of the character.

[Fox1]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Here are some stats for Colossus. Sound right? Remember' date=' I never actually get to [b']play[/b] Champions (I haven't played in this millenium), so I'm doing this purely for "enjoyment"..

 

PD 40h/r30h ??? Too high, to low?

ED 40h/r40h ??? Too high, to low?

 

Not too high if you don't want him to be able to beat himself up.

 

In general I allow a brick to do between 15-20 points of damage to himself on the average blow depending upon how I view his offense vs. defense ratio. For Peter, I'd err on the low side.

 

A stunning blow should happen when he rolls something around 4 to 4.5 points per die. For Peter, I'd error on the high side.

 

I also don't see him having that much resistant defense. 25 points should be enough.

 

So, using your 70 STR...

 

Say 35/r25 for both PD and ED?

 

 

 

 

10 Osmium Flesh: Knockback Resistance -5"

 

He's not that dense as I recall. Give him only -2" and remember to use his STR vs. Knockback when he's in a fight.

 

 

15 Osmium Form: LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Extended Breathing: 1 END per 20 Minutes; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week)

 

I gave him Total Life Support for 45 points.

 

 

 

5 Unstable Molecule Suit: Armor (5 PD/5 ED); Activation 10- (-1 1/4), OIF (-1/2)

 

Gilding the lily.

 

Think of it as layered armor. Would a think bullet proof jacket really increase the defense of a main battle tank? Of course not.

 

Shouldn't for Peter either.

 

 

 

Does Colossus have any Combat training that would translate into MA? I think so. Also, I'd assume several skill levels - especially 3 or so with fastball specials.

 

According to the comics, he did.

 

I wouldn't do it however. Peter should do knockback and MA reduce that.

 

Instead reflect it in an additonal HtH Skill Level or two over what you'd give a 'untrained' brick. I also gave him +2 Throwing and that handles hurling cars or Wolverine.

 

Consider giving him the Shockwave Brick trick.

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Here's a quick go at Colossus using Multiform - I'm especially pleased at how the Disads fell together for both forms.

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Not too high if you don't want him to be able to beat himself up.

 

In general I allow a brick to do between 15-20 points of damage to himself on the average blow depending upon how I view his offense vs. defense ratio. For Peter, I'd err on the low side.

 

A stunning blow should happen when he rolls something around 4 to 4.5 points per die. For Peter, I'd error on the high side.

 

I also don't see him having that much resistant defense. 25 points should be enough.

 

So, using your 70 STR...

 

Say 35/r25 for both PD and ED?

 

I see your point. I was basing this on Colossus being "less Strong" with "better defenses" than your typical Marvel Heavy Hitter (Thing, Thor, Hulk)...

 

He's not that dense as I recall. Give him only -2" and remember to use his STR vs. Knockback when he's in a fight.

 

Yeah, he's only 500 lbs, so -2" is much better.

 

I gave him Total Life Support for 45 points.

 

Yeah, I thought I remembered him not being able to survive in a vacuum for more than 1 minute (during the Brood), and he's not immortal (that I know of). Didn't he catch the Legacy virus while Colossus?

 

Gilding the lily.

 

Think of it as layered armor. Would a think bullet proof jacket really increase the defense of a main battle tank? Of course not.

 

Shouldn't for Peter either

 

I only included this because I have the Peter form wearing an UMS - but with 14- protection - he grows, it covers less. Ditching it wouldn't be a big deal, but it felt more consistent.

 

According to the comics, he did.

 

I wouldn't do it however. Peter should do knockback and MA reduce that.

 

Instead reflect it in an additonal HtH Skill Level or two over what you'd give a 'untrained' brick. I also gave him +2 Throwing and that handles hurling cars or Wolverine.

 

I added quite a bit of MA maneuvers - a block, a throw, a disarm, a couple of punches... his finesse package. Plus Peter can use it in a pinch.

 

Also included 3 HtH CSL and 3 Fastball Special Levels.

 

Consider giving him the Shockwave Brick trick.

 

Excellent!

[Fox1]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Yeah' date=' I thought I remembered him not being able to survive in a vacuum for more than 1 minute (during the Brood), and he's not immortal (that I know of). Didn't he catch the Legacy virus while Colossus?[/quote']

 

I don't think they've been consistent on the vacuum thing. Like consistency is to be expected.

 

As to immortal? Beats me, also beats me as to how long he can hold that form. I don't think it's indefinite so giving him immortality while in it is of little gain.

 

I didn't read the comics during the Legacy era, but I recall something about him taking it on himself as part of a cure or something weird like that. However the Legacy Virus was a plot device, it could kill any mutant no matter their power or defenses. I would count it.

 

Beside, I believe LS references only Terrestrial diseases. That still leaves stuff open.

 

I error'd on the side of covering all the bases. You have reason to back out at least the first two items you noted.

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

A note on his defenses from

 

http://www.marveldirectory.com/xoops/modules/wordbook/entry.php?entryID=174

 

In his armored form Colossus is highly resistant to most forms of bodily harm. His armor is capable of withstanding ballistic penetration, including that of a 110 millimeter Howitzer shell. He could survive a collision with a loaded, one-ton flatbed truck at 100 miles per hour or an explosion of 450 pounds of TNT. He can survive extremes of temperature from 70 degrees above absolute zero (-390 degrees Fahrenheit) to approximately 9000 Fahrenheit. However, it is theorized that above the latter temperature, his armored form would begin to melt. Colossus's armored form cannot rust under normal Earth conditions.

 

Now I don't know what any of that translates into, but it sure sounds tough. Ouch.

[Fox1]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

A note on his defenses from

 

http://www.marveldirectory.com/xoops/modules/wordbook/entry.php?entryID=174

 

 

 

Now I don't know what any of that translates into, but it sure sounds tough. Ouch.

 

 

Yep.

 

For what it's worth, I have him at a 85 STR with 45/r35 PD & ED. He'd certainly survive all the above with those values (although he may feel it).

[Dr Archeville]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

The X-Men's Unstable Molecule uniforms (similar to the ones worn by many Avengers and the F4) don't offer any protection, they just synch up to the wearer's body & powers. Mr. Fantastic's U-M outfit stretches with him, Invisible Woman's U-M costume automatically turns invisible along with her, the Human Torch's costume doesn't get burned away when he immolates himself, etc.. It's a pseudo-scientific/plot device way to explain why a Mutant's body-warping/altering abilities don't destroy their colorful outfits every time they use their powers.

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Oh....

 

Well, 25 years thinking them Unstable Molecule suits were bullet-proof... bamf.

 

Ah, but the Black Leather costumes from the movies.. they MUST be kevlar & Leather... or maybe not.

 

Thanks for the info!

[Fox1]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Oh....

 

Well, 25 years thinking them Unstable Molecule suits were bullet-proof... bamf.

 

Ah, but the Black Leather costumes from the movies.. they MUST be kevlar & Leather... or maybe not.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

Don't give up so easily

 

Dr Archeville is correct to a point, they have been describe in such terms.

 

They have also been described in other ways, such as offering protection from the cold, etc. All depends on the writer.

 

Since one is playing in a game, it's often worth extending the official 'word' on a subject a little for game balance. Movies tend to make the thin special effects only costumes into things more practical (X-Men, Batman, etc). There's no reason we as gamers can't as well.

[assault]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Since one is playing in a game' date=' it's often worth extending the official 'word' on a subject a little for game balance. Movies tend to make the thin special effects only costumes into things more practical (X-Men, Batman, etc). There's no reason we as gamers can't as well.[/quote']

 

Yep.

 

Games are a different medium to comics, in the same way that movies are different. Our characters are necessarily adaptations.

 

Adding armour to costumes is the kind of necessary adaptation involved in making the transition between what works in the comics and what works in a game. Just like handing out Combat Luck to any character that shouldn't die quite as often as they otherwise would.

 

Hmm... But then again, the need to engage in these kind of conversions probably reflects the degree to which Champions didn't accurately reflect the source material from which it was originally designed back in the early 80s.

 

Anyway, modify your characters to whatever degree you see fit to make them work.

[keithcurtis]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Yeah' date=' he's only 500 lbs, so -2" is much better.[/quote']

500 pounds seems insanely low for someone made of Osmium. Osmium is the only normal element with a higher specific gravity than lead. He should weigh over a couple tons.

 

A quick check reveals that Osmium has a SG of 22.61. If Piotr is ~200 lbs in his normal form (which is as close to water as makes no never mind), he should weigh at least 22 times that in his armored form.

 

Lets give him 100kg as a normal weight. He should weigh 2200kg, or 2.2 metric tons.

 

BTW, any idea why the OHOTMU chose Osmium?

 

Keith "better mutants through chemistry" Curtis

[CDad]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

I remember reading that it was a "cool sounding" metal from the periodic table, so Osmium was chosen.

 

Nice info on his weight... after a bit of research, I found that Colossus was listed as 500 lbs UNTIL he was written in Excalibur. The writers there did a quick check, and came to the same conclusion you listed - 2200 KG, or 4800 lbs.

 

Sounds like -4" KNB to me.

[Bloodstone]

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

 

Multiform is the wrong way to go IMO. Pete retains all of his memories, personality and skills in both forms. Only his stats/powers change. With Mutiform, keeping everything straight can be difficult, especially as the character gains XP.

 

Is there any reason why Density Increase, with assorted other linked powers isn't used here?

 

Something along the lines of:

 

Organic Steel Form

 

69 Density Increase (3,200 kg mass, +25 STR, +5 PD/ED, -5" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Mental Command; +3/4) (69 Active Points) 0

 

17 +25 STR (25 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2) 2

 

11 Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 70 Active Points of STR (17 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

38 +46 PD, Hardened (+1/4) (57 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

29 +35 ED, Hardened (+1/4) (44 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

43 +32 CON (64 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

7 +5 BODY (10 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

46 Damage Resistance (60 PD/50 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (69 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2) 0

 

15 LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (22 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

3 Lack Of Weakness (-5) for Resistant Defenses (5 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2)

 

I assumed his human form had about a 20 STR, 18 CON and 20 BOD. Obvioulsy he would need to be adjusted to taste if you felt those stats were too high or low.

 

Mind you, this is just a quick write up, going entierly from memory and with no FRED to reference.