Dive For Cover

[Viper3220]

I was recently reading Dive for Cover and something bothered me....

You are considered to be prone until your turn....

Now this raises a problem with me... I tend to play the quick characters that like to avoid things then attack... instead of the characters that are tough enough to take it then attack... now let's say there's my character, an archer, and a mage.... I go first so I hold my action... Archer goes 2nd... he waits also... mage's turn... mage lets loose an AoE attack at me.. I dive for cover... Archer takes this as his cue to shoot at me... now since I dove for cover I am at 1/2 dcv. Mage+Archer vs my character (who Dives for Cover) basically=Mincemeat. Is there anyway I can avoid this problem? because it seems to me no matter how skilled my character is he can be outdone by this combination. Please tell me there's something I'm missing.

[Blackberry]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

What you probably want to do is just buy Martial Dodge.

Or if you specifically want something useful against AE

attacks, buy +3 DCV Levels, Only vs. AE/Exp, Takes 1/2 phase.

[Fox1]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Is there anyway I can avoid this problem? because it seems to me no matter how skilled my character is he can be outdone by this combination. Please tell me there's something I'm missing.

 

Nah, you be hosed. Such is life for being double-teamed. Bring friends of your own

 

 

 

If you really want away around it, you could buy the following:

 

+X level of DCV for Dive for Cover (X has to be equal to your normal DCV as these skill levels will also be halved), Requires Breakfall (or Acrobatics) Roll.

 

That will let you keep your DCV when doing a dive for cover. You can increase the value of X by 6 if you want to not only dive for cover but also in effect dodge at the same time.

 

Not very cheap.

 

And you'll still have problems if archer fires a new AE arrow at you since you can't dive for cover twice in the same segment.

[Glupii]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Doesn't diving for cover assume you have something to get cover from? And if so, would you not get cover bonuses from whatever you are hiding behind when being shot at by the archer? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, just wondering)

[Fox1]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Doesn't diving for cover assume you have something to get cover from? And if so' date=' would you not get cover bonuses from whatever you are hiding behind when being shot at by the archer? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, just wondering)[/quote']

 

No.

 

It's just a movement out of the area effect (or in the case of an EX, to a less dangerous one).

 

If you can reach cover however, you likely should.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Fox1, you are on the right track, but it needn't be that complicated.

 

Do you have the Ultimate Martial Artist Viper3220? If you don't it's worth picking up. There are two rules in there that may be of help.

 

The easiest to deal with is a rule for Acrobatics. It allows you to make an Acrobatics Roll to maintain your full DCV while prone. You need to make your roll by half though. So if you have Acrobatics 14-, you need to roll 7-. You can always buy levels with it though.

 

The other rule, which some people love to hate, is the Flying Dodge martial arts maneuver. It grants a DCV bonus and allows movement when you abort. The maneuver would simply allow you to move out of the way of the AE attack and still be standing/have full DCV.

[Fox1]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

The easiest to deal with is a rule for Acrobatics. It allows you to make an Acrobatics Roll to maintain your full DCV while prone. You need to make your roll by half though. So if you have Acrobatics 14-, you need to roll 7-. You can always buy levels with it though.

 

I didn't suggest this method because the required skill bonuses tend to exceed reasonable campaign caps, a roll of 20- is needed just for a break even chance.

 

 

 

The other rule, which some people love to hate, is the Flying Dodge martial arts maneuver. It grants a DCV bonus and allows movement when you abort. The maneuver would simply allow you to move out of the way of the AE attack and still be standing/have full DCV.

 

Love to hate is an understatement. I house ruled that so long ago that I've forgotten it ever existed.

 

I'm tempted to use it as a filter for possible players- if they think that's a good use/idea of Flying Dodge they aren't the type of people who should be playing in my game

 

But it is offical, no matter how much it sucks.

 

Edit: corrected a math error

[prestidigitator]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Actually, what I think is funny is that you can now actually take defensive movement when you Abort, so I think as long as you could move to a place the mage couldn't hit you with his AoE (say, far enough behind cover that he can't place it to hit you or loses track of where you are for lack of LoS?), you actually wouln't need a DfC. For that matter, couldn't you Abort to move more than a HTH attacker's Half-Move, rather than Dodging or Blocking? Hmm....

[prestidigitator]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

How about these:

• 4" Digging; Trigger: becoming the target of a perceived AoE attack (+1/4); 0 End (+1/2); Only straight down to a max depth of 2" or back up again (-1); Other Limitations....
  
• Desolidification: hit by non-AoE attacks; Trigger: becoming the target of a perceived AoE attack (+1/4); 0 End (+1/2); Lots of other Limitations....

[Fox1]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Actually' date=' what I think is funny is that you can now actually take defensive [i']movement[/i] when you Abort, so I think as long as you could move to a place the mage couldn't hit you with his AoE (say, far enough behind cover that he can't place it to hit you or loses track of where you are for lack of LoS?), you actually wouln't need a DfC. For that matter, couldn't you Abort to move more than a HTH attacker's Half-Move, rather than Dodging or Blocking? Hmm....

 

Please tell me this isn't true.

 

Is this another of the wonderful (much sarcasm) FAQ rulings or is it actually something I missed in the rulebook?

[OddHat]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Please tell me this isn't true.

 

Is this another of the wonderful (much sarcasm) FAQ rulings or is it actually something I missed in the rulebook?

 

5thER, p.362. It's not normally allowed, but can be with GM permission. Looks like a perfect place to practice saying "No".

[Fox1]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

5thER' date=' p.362. It's not normally allowed, but can be with GM permission. Looks like a perfect place to practice saying "No".[/quote']

 

 

Oh yes indeed. Very much NO.

[Mike W]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

 

The easiest to deal with is a rule for Acrobatics. It allows you to make an Acrobatics Roll to maintain your full DCV while prone. You need to make your roll by half though. So if you have Acrobatics 14-, you need to roll 7-. You can always buy levels with it though.

 

QUOTE]

 

Actually, in our campaign, we allow characters to make a straight Acrobatics roll to avoid landing prone on dive for cover. The only penalty is -1 for every hex they dove. This way, you've still got a decent chance of making it unless you try to dive 5 or more inches.

[Herolover]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

I have always seen Dive for Cover as a last ditch manuever. For normal, I want to get out of the way, situations you use Dodge. For the OMG, I need to MOVE, you use Dive for Cover.

 

In the situation you are using as an example most anyone would be hosed. Two well coordinated foes, with a plan, acting against one lone target. Very few people wouldn't be hosed in this situation.

[Herolover]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Of course here is the way around it.

 

You, buy up your DCV or by lots of Combat skill levels.

You hold your action. When you see the mage is starting to cast a spell you interrupt his action (If you are that dexey you should beat his dice roll to go first.) You move and close distance with the mage attacking if possible.

 

This will

1) possibly interrupt his spell.

2) Make sure he and possibly the archer are caught in any AOE spells.

 

With you CSL's and a high DEX you hope the archer misses. If not your are screwed.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

I just had a stoke of genius*

 

Hip Shot and/or Hurry. Both of these maneuvers add temporary Lightning Reflexes to your character, allowing you to act earlier in a Segment. If your character had held his Phase, or was to act in the Segment he was attacked in, he could use one of these maneuver and hope act before the mage. Because you are taking your action and not aborting, simply take your normal movement. Do note the penalties to CV, but also note they are typically not as bad as being prone.

 

*and she was wonderful.

[Silbeg]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

The easiest to deal with is a rule for Acrobatics. It allows you to make an Acrobatics Roll to maintain your full DCV while prone. You need to make your roll by half though. So if you have Acrobatics 14-, you need to roll 7-. You can always buy levels with it though

Interesting... have to look this one up. My players haven' really seen the use of Acrobatics in years... this is pretty cool use for it.

 

The other rule, which some people love to hate, is the Flying Dodge martial arts maneuver. It grants a DCV bonus and allows movement when you abort. The maneuver would simply allow you to move out of the way of the AE attack and still be standing/have full DCV.

 

Not necessarily. Ok, by the bulk of Steve Long's rulings you might be right. HOwever, nothing in the system says that this prevents the attack from landing on the character using Flying Dodge. The way I rule it is that unless you are using a held phase, and are able to win the opposed DEX check, you are acting at the same time as the attacker. This being the case, you do gain your increased DCV, and are able to move (note, I really don't see that this is implied by the manuever, but can live with it). However, since your aborted phase happens simultaneously with the attack, you still are vulnerable to the the attack.

[Silbeg]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Actually' date=' what I think is funny is that you can now actually take defensive [i']movement[/i] when you Abort, so I think as long as you could move to a place the mage couldn't hit you with his AoE (say, far enough behind cover that he can't place it to hit you or loses track of where you are for lack of LoS?), you actually wouln't need a DfC. For that matter, couldn't you Abort to move more than a HTH attacker's Half-Move, rather than Dodging or Blocking? Hmm....

 

Page reference, please. This seems like too much of a rules change to me...

[Trebuchet]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

The easiest to deal with is a rule for Acrobatics. It allows you to make an Acrobatics Roll to maintain your full DCV while prone. You need to make your roll by half though. So if you have Acrobatics 14-' date=' you need to roll 7-. You can always buy levels with it though.[/quote']I'd never noticed that before. Cool. Yet another reason to love my PC's 22- Acrobatics roll. And here I thought it was just to represent Olympic-level gymnastics before she got her superpowers.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

Please tell me this isn't true.

 

Is this another of the wonderful (much sarcasm) FAQ rulings or is it actually something I missed in the rulebook?

It could be permitted under some circumstances at the GM's discretion. From 5er, pg. 362, paragraph 4:

 

A character cannot normally Abort to a movement Action' date=' such as to run, fly, or Teleport out of danger's way.[/b'] Dive for Cover and decelerating are exceptions to this - although they do involve some movement, character can Abort to them. At the GM's option, characters may be allowed to Abort to other forms of movement in appropriate circumstances.

Boldface mine.

 

DfC is an explicit exception. Simply Running or Teleporting out of the range of an HtH attack would not normally be permitted. If the character wants to avoid HtH, he can DfC at the normal penalties.

[OddHat]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

It could be permitted under some circumstances at the GM's discretion. From 5er, pg. 362, paragraph 4:

 

Boldface mine.

 

DfC is an explicit exception. Simply Running or Teleporting out of the range of an HtH attack would not normally be permitted. If the character wants to avoid HtH, he can DfC at the normal penalties.

 

A recent ruling by Steve also suggested that a GM might permit defensive movement to protect another character. Personally, I'd only allow that as a DFC to block for someone else, which is already built into the rules.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Dive For Cover

 

A recent ruling by Steve also suggested that a GM might permit defensive movement to protect another character. Personally' date=' I'd only allow that as a DFC to block for someone else, which is already built into the rules.[/quote']I agree if the Diving character is "taking the bullet" for someone else. If they're Blocking to prevent an HtH attack against a person they're trying to protect, I'd allow movement only within a few inches and the Block bonuses would only apply to the intended target.

 

This is something that needs to be watched closely to prevent abuse; we don't want characters zipping freely all over the battlefield on Aborts. But a shift of 3' or 4" doesn't seem out of line, especially if it's below half of their normal move. (And of course Aborting carries its own penalties in that the Aborting character just blew his nex Action)