How to build a better Sword?

[Reln]

OK i'm trying to build a Masterwork Sword (yes i'm converting my D20 Game)

 

What do you think of this?

 

Long Sword, Masterwork, all slots: Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum (10; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

1) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 4DCs (plus STR) (vs. PD),

Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points)

2) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1DC (vs. PD),

Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (7 Active Points);

Limited Power (Only when Attack roll succeds by 5 or

more; -1 1/2)

 

I dont' want to just make it do more damage or have a bonus to OCV but i want it to be better then a normal weapon of its' type...any other sugestions?

[Arthur]

So it has part of its damage defined as "only on an especially accurate hit"? Intriguing.

 

First off, how did you come up with 30 AP for 4 DC? 30 AP would be 6 DC (2d K) - about right for a good magic sword.

 

Also, you can have define it even more dynamically, if you wish:

 

3 DC (1d K) - Limitations listed.

 

+6 DC (+2d K) - Lims listed PLUS "does +1 DC per point the attack roll is made by, up to +6". I'd rate that at about a -2. That's pretty limiting - assuming that a foe's DCV is usually going to be roughly equal to your OCV.

[Reln]

The 30 Active points are from the 0 END that you buy a muscle powerd weapon with. This is the standard active points for a Longsword. My goal was to make a sword that was better then standard with out a strait bonus to damage (extara DCs) or OCV bonus.

 

In essance a Masterwork or high quality but non-magical sword.

[Captain Obvious]

How exactly is a masterwork sword defined in D&D if not by a bonus to hit and/or damage? Something I used to offer every now and then in fantasy games was a finely crafted sword that was razor sharp. In essence, I gave it an extra DC, but also added -1 STUN modifier, with the assumption that a really sharp blade doesn't hurt any more than a standard blade, even though it cuts deeper (I know we've all slashed our finger wide open on a razor or X-Acto at some time or other...). Anyway, some players liked it, some didn't (couldn't get over the -1 STUN).

 

Your system seems interesting, BTW. I may have to swipe it.

[Reln]

You are corect a Masterwork sword in D&D is defined as a bonus to hit or damage. I wanted to save bonuses like that for purly magical weapons. I wanted to make Masterwork something different.

 

I do like your idea of reduced stun I might have t swipe that mysellf

[Captain Obvious]

Aww, shucks...I got the reduced STUN thing from an old Adventurers' Club....

 

This talk of magic weapons vs finely made weapons reminded me of something somewhat interesting. In D&D, it's possible to have non-magic weapons that give a bonus. In Warhammer FRP on the other hand, it's possible to have a magic weapon that gives no bonus at all. The benefit to owning one is that it will dispel some spells by touch (like any other magic weapon in the system), and it will damage certain monsters that are only vulnerable to magic weapons.

 

I imagine most Hero GMs don't go too far out designing monsters that require a magic weapon to defeat, so your way is probably actually better in that respect. The mere special effect of "magic weapon" can in some cases serve to make even a no-bonus weapon better than one with scads of DCs and OCV bonuses though....

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Special effects are the spirit of the game.

 

I like being reminded of your point, though. The difference between AD&D and WFRP, of course, is the difference between Champions and Dark Champions -- you never quite lose the sense of impending doom, and the three ratlings with crossbows really can make you worry.

 

Okay, so I far prefer WFRP. It's a style/SFX thing. Sue me.

[Markdoc]

My approach to high quality weapons was to give a +1 OCV to hit, based on the idea that they were better balanced, stronger, etc but no damage bonus. I also gave them 50% more DEF to prevent them being broken as easily as normal weapons.

 

Poor quality weapons suffered the opposite effect - a -1 OCV and 50% DEF.

 

Seemed to work OK. PCs were certainly willing to fork over big heaps of cash for a "masterwork weapon".

 

cheers, Mark

[NuSoardGraphite]

Hero's combat system makes it easy to come up with variations on standard blades, so that one can easily customize their own personal weapons. Here are some of my suggestions.

 

Exceptional Balance: +1 OCV

Razor Sharp: +1DC

Light as a feather: -3 STR Min

Heavy blade: +3STR Min/+1 StunX

Basket Hilt: +1 To Block and Bind.

Damascus Steel (or whatever): Unbreakable Focus (relatively)

 

The more features a blade has, the more it costs. A "Masterwork" weapon may have 3 or more of these features (obviously the Light as a Feather, and Heavy blade bonuses are exclusive).

 

Thus you could have a Exceptionally balanced, Razor sharp blade that was Light as a Feather and made of Damascus steel.....but it'll cost ya!

[Reln]

Great suggestions I may have to use some of them.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Originally posted by NuSoardGraphite

Light as a feather: -3 STR Min

Heavy blade: +3STR Min/+1 StunX

 

...(obviously the Light as a Feather, and Heavy blade bonuses are inclusive).

EXclusive.

 

So what sort of prices would you make each one of these?

[AlHazred]

I run a Harn Hero game, which I try to keep low magic. So, none of the players had any magic weapons for the longest time, but they had cash to spend. So I decided to let them buy "fine" weapons. I defined them as normal, with an additional power: +1 DC, Reduced Endurance Cost (0 END; +1/2) (7 Active Points); OAF (-1), Standard Effect Variant (Does +1 BODY only; -0). Real Cost: 3 points. The 0 END and lack of STR Min limitation means that it's not any harder to swing than a normal sword; if it was made lighter than normal, but still as good (different alloy or something), I'd have knocked the STR Min down a point or two as well.

 

It's not much, but I'm trying to combat point inflation in my games.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally posted by Wyrm Ouroboros

EXclusive.

 

So what sort of prices would you make each one of these?

 

Yeah, sorry. Thats what I meant. I edited my post just a second ago...I really do need to stop posting after getting off of work (I work graveyard...you understand, I'm sure)

 

As far as the prices are concerned, a good guideline is double the cost for each bonus. Masterwork weapons are notoriously expensive...

[Victor]

How much for that one?

 

Originally posted by NuSoardGraphite

Light as a feather: -3 STR Min

Heavy blade: +3STR Min/+1 StunX

...

(obviously the Light as a Feather, and Heavy blade bonuses are exclusive).

 

I don't think that's necessarily true. A sword with a very wide and thick blade might qualify as a Heavy Blade. It could still have sufficient fullers, cutouts, a drop point, etc. to reduce it's STR Min to compensate, without losing the added effectiveness of it's size. I'll grant it's easier to picture with an axe than a sword, but I think it's equally applicable to either.

 

Now, it may cost more for having that combination, regardless... masterwork is definitely "Cutting Edge" (no pun intended), for those who want to borrow from Star Hero's pricing guide (p177). Since it's "Handmade", and "Military Grade", and presumably more in demand than supply, you're looking at about 200 X Base Price. If you use copper pieces as 'credits', you're staring at 6000cp per active point.

 

Coat it with silver and gilt ("Luxury"), it goes to 24,000cp per AP, and you could use it to ransom nobility.

 

Adding any kind of magic would, IMO, be a superior tech level, and increase the price by tenfold again. The King might have one like that. If he doesn't, and knows about it, he probably wants it. If he doesn't know about it, someone's probably going to earn favor (if not coin) by telling him, or his rival heads of state. It might even be worth more than it's present owner.

 

Now, that ash sapling over there, smoothed out, sharpened, and fire-hardened... that's starting to look like a pretty good alternative weapon.

[Toadmaster]

It's been years since I played a FH game but we used to reduce the STRMIN by one or a couple of points (lighter, better balanced etc) and added a few to its DEF/Body (assuming better quality steel). The more you were willing to pay the more the STRMIN, DEF/Body was changed.

 

Nusord, I too like your idea and also may steal it. We allowed some of those options for certain weapons like +1DC for an extra heavy axe, but yours offers more variety.

[Tasha]

Originally posted by Reln

You are corect a Masterwork sword in D&D is defined as a bonus to hit or damage. I wanted to save bonuses like that for purly magical weapons. I wanted to make Masterwork something different.

 

I do like your idea of reduced stun I might have t swipe that mysellf

 

Just to be picky. In 3rd edition D&D a Masterwork sword is +1 to hit. No other bonuses are possible unless you enchant the blade or make it from one of the special materials

 

So the idea of +1 OCV would work perfectly to simulate a D&D style Masterwork weapon.

 

Special materials:

Mithral: the Weapon is 1/2 weight

Adamantine: DC 1-3 base weapon = 1DC & 1 OCV added; 4-6 dc weapon 2 dc and 2 OCV added. (This is also not dispellable as it is the material and not a spell) This one if a little harder to mess with. It does feel like it is in the spirit of D&D rules. Though it does kind of feel like it is on the brink of being too powerful.

 

You really have to careful with magic items in FH as they can quickly mess up the game balance.

 

just my 2c,

 

Tasha