Keeping them distant

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

I'd say yeah, go with Cover, with the additional rule that the cover-ee can roll a Block maneuver at any time and get past the weapon.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

My only problem with cover is that it simply says to your opponent that you either keep your distance or I do you some damage (which I suppose is exactly what Markdoc is describing as spearman tactics).

 

It does not give the ability to keep an opponent distant mechanically - just through roleplay and trying to keep metagaming out of our mechanistically inclined minds.

 

With the manouever that I proposed there would be mechanics to use that would keep an opponent distant as long as the attack roll was successful. I haven't seen anything else yet where a successful roll would guarantee the maintenance of distance.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

I have been trying to think of a mechanic that would emulate the use of a long weapon to keep an opponent at range and prevent them from using a shorter weapon to attack.

 

My current thinking is a special grab manouever (only to prevent closing movement) The requirements would be a long weapon and a successful grab would allow weapon damage to be inflicted. The best thing about it is that a strong enough opponent would be able to throw the weapon aside and close.

 

I think that the manoever would give 1/2 DCV - if someone did close the long weapon wielder is in bother...

 

Anyone else given some thought to this?

 

 

Doc

Don't have time to read all the posts, but consider allowing the weilder of the reach weapon to use the "Covered" optional rule anytime is an opponent is within their reach, with the "Covered" resolution occuring if the opponent doesn't move away/out of reach.

 

This allows a kind of "Attack of Opportunity" if an opponent tries to get inside their reach.

 

 

Alternately/additionally, consider allowing reach weapons to use the "Set" manuever with greater latitude, since it accomplishes much the same thing. Or a variant of Set could be posited, called "Ward" perhaps, that was custom tailored to suit.

[The Monster]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

It seems to that the whole question - of keeping someone at a distance with long weapons - breaks down into a couple of distinct facets.

 

1) All things being equal, the longer weapon should have the first opportunity to strike, at least on intital approach. Of course, this assumes that the spearman is aware of the attacker, ready to act, and so forth - all of which can be easily accounted for by a held action, as well as a "set vs charge" option. If the latter is an abort action, so much the better, though it may be a bit generous to the spearman.

 

2) The whole idea of keeping someone at bay is *not* a question so much of doing damage as of posing a threat. It isn’t the spear that keeps the guy away; it’s his reluctance to suffer pain and damage, knowing that he’s likely to get hurt (at least) before he can put you down. One of the things that makes berserks so effective is that they aren't stopped by such tirvial concerns, which makes them scary to the typical spearman.

What is needed here is not a combat mechanic per se but a role-playing standard. While Hero is more effective than most RPGs with BODY and STUN damage, the fact that you can be knocked down to 2 BODY and still fight without penalties makes it easy for characters to hurl themselves about with abandon. For heroes, that may be properly mythic, but for basic thug and soldiers, it isn’t quite satisfactory. Perhaps a PRE roll or something should be needed before moving into an unfair strike distance (i.e., one where the other guy can hit you but you can’t hit back. This really boils down to a GM/roleplaying issue rather than a cut-and-dried combat rule.

 

3) If you make special rules for spearmen to make a first strike against an attacker, you really ought to clarify the oprions for the attacker as well. He should have the option of attacking the spear as he comes in, to break it or deflect it. A variant on Disarm or Block might work, but I get queasy when people start piling on special rules, especially in Hero where existing options can and do cover almost all situations.

[Markdoc]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

One of the things that makes berserks so effective is that they aren't stopped by such tirvial concerns, which makes them scary to the typical spearman.

 

Yep. Bernard Cornwell makes the point in his arthurian series that in the days before real soldiers, getting your soldiers to charge was actually quite difficult. Hence all the posing about and shouting insults before the actual fighting started.

 

General: "You chaps! Run over there and kill those angry-looking fellows with the big spears"

Part-time soldier/farmer: "Good heavens! Is that the time? Must pop home and check if I left the cat on the fire."

General: "OooooKay. How about you?"

etc.

 

On the other hand if you have a few berserks handy you can ask them and once they are moving (hopefully in the right direction) it's much easier to get everyone to simply follow them. It's just that most people don't want to be first.

 

cheers, Mark

[Curufea]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

This is the main reason I like the Skjaldberg wargame rules from Shieldwall games - the emphasis on morale in skirmish dark age combat.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

is Skjaldberg a real word? or did you slam your hands on the keyboard?

 

[Markdoc]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

Skjaldberg sounds like a mangling of a real Scandanavian (Danish/Norse) word. Skjöldborg means "Shield-castle" and is the old norse word for a shield wall.

 

Unfortunately since Skald or Skjald (alternate spelling) means poet/singer and Berg or Bjerg means mountain, at first glance the word looks more like "poet-mountain" to someone who speaks those languages.

 

Ritchie Blackmore style wargaming, anyone?

 

cheers, Mark

[Curufea]

Re: Keeping them distant

 

My typo - it is actually skjaldborg. You can get it here - http://www.shieldwallgames.com/rules.htm

 

I found it to have nicely implemented leadership and morale rules.