Duke Bushido Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! invalid. Once time travel is created, by it's very nature, it is accessible throughout time. I've got a really long post above detailing this, as do several others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! invalid. Once time travel is created, by it's very nature, it is accessible throughout time. I've got a really long post above detailing this, as do several others. Not if time travel necessitates a receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Again, once time travel exists, all things occur simultaneously. As soon as it is created, the most perfect version of time travel will be attainable. Shoot ahead a few thousand years to a reciever, placed simply because a few thousand years before there was a need, and get the version that does not require such a thing. Now to postulate that time-travel is one-way, well that's a whole different thing. And far more acceptable, if only because it's harder to disprove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! You're assuming time travel would be possible without a receiver. According to your own logic, a receiver might be one of the unbreakable requirements, because otherwise we'd know about time travel, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! If they're dressed in period' date=' speak English well, and don't do anything outrageous, a tourist from the future would look just like a tourist from Chicago. How do you know that guy standing next to you taking a picture of the Space Needle didn't really come from the year 5714 -- or the year 700 B.C.E., for that matter?[/quote'] Considering how badly current tourists behave (e.g. Yanks in Scotland) one might expect that time-travelling tourists would be just as bad. OTOH those shockingly gauche tourists may actually be from the future but hiding in plain sight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! American tourists . . . Like the couple who went to Jukkasjärvi, expecting to get a room at the ice hotel - in july. Or the american couple (so stupid they might be the same people!) who travelled the Hurtigrutten in northern Norway to see the Midsummer Sun - and then complained that "it's just the same sun!" Americans . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! You're mistaken. Those were Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! You're assuming time travel would be possible without a receiver. According to your own logic' date=' a receiver might be one of the unbreakable requirements, because otherwise we'd know about time travel, right? [/quote'] Nice! repped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! There is one flaw in these theorists' thinking... They are taking into account a wave destruction from interference of the same particle/wave. A time traveller would in theory create a new wave function thatwould in all probability have a different frequency/amplitude than that of the original wave. Taking this into account, Hawking is countered with the possibility that a time traveller's interference (including merely observing) would be unobservable to the prime continuity, and only observed/remembered where those 2 wave functions intersected. In effect, creating a small, sporadically in existence, alternate history, that only certain time and conditions would reveal the existence of. This also gives rise to the possibility that not only would alternate timelines exist, they would blend with the original reality in times and places where they had the same vector and the trough/crests intersected. Of course, this means that if alternate realities or time travel existed, it would not be noticed by the population as a whole, as only a few rare circumstances would provide a glimpse of what else exists, and observers of those worlds would likely be dismissed as quacks or schizo. In short, time travel could exist, infinite travelers exist, and it not change the major details in any way that anyone could document- because of temporal refraction. Also- Alternate realities would exist, but only be accessed and CREATED by the time machines in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! OK, that was a model of coherency. I wonder what would make it easier to understand -- a Ph.D. in Temporal Physics or a few doses of Prozac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! OK' date=' that was a model of coherency. I wonder what would make it easier to understand -- a Ph.D. in Temporal Physics or a few doses of Prozac?[/quote'] Er...I didn't have any trouble following it, and I don't have a Ph.D. in physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! A visual Aid... In the Illustration- the Red Wave is the Original Partical Timeline. the Blue Wave is the Theorists' Traveler Timeline. This creates a wave Normalization signified by the Black Line. the Green Wave is the Alternate Timeline created by my statement above. The inhabitants of the Red (original) timeline would only be aware of the Green Timeline at points where they properly intersected (marked by Green Circles). The basis for this train of thought is that a particle/wave in the present has an entirely different energy than any object (including itself) in the past. The object is in a different location in 4 dimensions (Ht, wt, dpth, time) and therefore creates a different interference wave. Traveling to the past would alter its wave, but NOT make it an inverse of the original wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Of course, this means that if alternate realities or time travel existed, it would not be noticed by the population as a whole, as only a few rare circumstances would provide a glimpse of what else exists, and observers of those worlds would likely be dismissed as quacks or schizo. In short, time travel could exist, infinite travelers exist, and it not change the major details in any way that anyone could document- because of temporal refraction. Also- Alternate realities would exist, but only be accessed and CREATED by the time machines in the first place. Which gets back to one of my original questions - if you've got two systems that are identical at the waveform level, would any differences manifest macroscopically? Referencing your later diagram, if the red and green waves really do exactly coincide at two points in time, would they differ enough in between to merit calling the time span an "alternate reality" at anything above an atomic scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Which gets back to one of my original questions - if you've got two systems that are identical at the waveform level' date=' would any differences manifest macroscopically? Referencing your later diagram, if the red and green waves really do exactly coincide at two points in time, would they differ enough in between to merit calling the time span an "alternate reality" at anything above an atomic scale?[/quote'] Well- it depends on how you choose to define your wave form.... In theory- the Macroscopic Alternate Reality (as a byproduct of a Macroscopic effect on Quantam Time) would be just as viable as a Quantum A.R. The weird crap hits the fan when you take into account Strange Particle Attractors, Uncertainty, and Quantum Foam. (I'll spare those of you not on as high a dosage of Prozac as I am ) As Quantum level effects begin to affect the Macrocosmic world- what would be possible is for a Person/Particle/Wave (we are all that and more) to travel along the Red Timeline and cross over a junction into the Green Timeline- either permanently or temporarily. Of course- if a Temporal Refraction occured on a purely Quantum level- (time travel involving ONLY particle/waves) then the Refraction would be so minute as to be indsitiguishable from the whole. But if it occured with a much higher disruption (any idea how many Nano-joules make up a 190lb human? Matter IS energy people!) than the Refraction would be much more (EDIT) Short answer AustenAndrews.... The more energy involved in a refraction, the greater the difference between the 2 realities, and the rarer the overlap in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! (Ha- now I can edit!) Now- I know people are gonna start talking about infinite overlap. Don't. For those few who want to argue my argument is too simplistic, I did that on purpose= no way am I going to try to explain 11+ dimensions involved in superstring theory. I'll shut up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! The more energy involved in a refraction' date=' the greater the difference between the 2 realities, and the rarer the overlap in between.[/quote'] I wonder about the relation between differences and overlaps. If the difference is great enough to become noticable macroscopically, does that drive the chances of overlap to essentially nil? I suspect it would. Btw welcome to the boards. And you're from my old stomping grounds, to boot! I went to high school in Indy (well, Carmel) from '81-85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Not to nil, but occurences would be rare. Keep in mind that sub-quantum waves (superstrings) vibrate in multiple dimensions. Some of these dimensions are energy (Electromagnetic weak, light, etc.) This produces some interesting possibilities... Imagine if you will: Inanimate/Animate Displacement: A. You place your keys on the coffee table, and 2 minutes later they are gone. You search everywhere- only to find 10 minutes later that they are right where you left them. B. Bermuda Triangle and other disapperances. Energy Displacement: Ball lightening. Spontaneous combustion. Voices from beyond carried by white noise. Paranormal Phenomenon: Repetetive apparitions. Dopplegangers. Poltergeist phenomenon. Foo fighters. (the lights and the band) This gives a few roleplaying possibilities- Such as riding a time surge to somewhen else, and hoping you catch the next wave back. Such as using bizzare events to track temporal travellers. Using such things to find fugitives from future law who are terrorizing their own alternate history. Stopping a mad man who is purposely altering the past- not for the alternate realities, but because he has mapped the major waveforms and plans on causing a massive intersection- using time travel as a WMD, not through altering the past, but by creating an energy cross more destructive than a nuke. Okay.... I think I'll go back to shutting up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Okay.... I think I'll go back to shutting up. Why? That's good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Why? That's good stuff! Yeah. That's f-ing brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Just the creation of matter in the past where there was none before is a paradox.I think that pesky little "law" of thermodynamics may be less accurate than you appear to believe. I have fun imagining all the innappropriately dressed time travelers lost in upstate New York looking in vain for Max Yasger's Farm. I wonder if some of them were the one's watching the battle of Gettysburg. I wonder how many senses of Deja vu have been due to proximity to two time waves overlapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Re: Good News For Time Travelers! Not to nil, but occurences would be rare. Keep in mind that sub-quantum waves (superstrings) vibrate in multiple dimensions. Some of these dimensions are energy (Electromagnetic weak, light, etc.) This produces some interesting possibilities... Imagine if you will: Inanimate/Animate Displacement: A. You place your keys on the coffee table, and 2 minutes later they are gone. You search everywhere- only to find 10 minutes later that they are right where you left them. B. Bermuda Triangle and other disapperances. Energy Displacement: Ball lightening. Spontaneous combustion. Voices from beyond carried by white noise. Paranormal Phenomenon: Repetetive apparitions. Dopplegangers. Poltergeist phenomenon. Foo fighters. (the lights and the band) This gives a few roleplaying possibilities- Such as riding a time surge to somewhen else, and hoping you catch the next wave back. Such as using bizzare events to track temporal travellers. Using such things to find fugitives from future law who are terrorizing their own alternate history. Stopping a mad man who is purposely altering the past- not for the alternate realities, but because he has mapped the major waveforms and plans on causing a massive intersection- using time travel as a WMD, not through altering the past, but by creating an energy cross more destructive than a nuke. Okay.... I think I'll go back to shutting up. Dude.... no shutting up. The only problem I'm seeing with your posts is that you are way too damn smart. Great ideas you're throwing out here... I love the idea of tying a bunch of Fortean occurances to disturbances caused by time travel. Repped, and welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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