Just Asked Steve but While I Wait

[Ndreare]

Well I was wondering if you guys have done this before or if any of you see any problems with this power?

 

Hello I am creating a villian for a game and want to give him the power to use the skills of another after reading their mind with telepathy. So I am wondering if this is a valid power construction or if I am breaking a rule I did not see in the books.

 

 

Cost Power

58 Barrow Skill: (Total: 79 Active Cost, 58 Real Cost) Transfer 1d6, Can Transfer Maximum Of 10 Points, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute) (+1/4), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense; +1), Variable Effect Four Skills Simultaneously (+1) (64 Active Points); Limited Power Must get Ego +30 on telepathy roll. (-1/2) (Real Cost: 43) plus Target Keeps Skill: Naked Modifier, Usable Simultaneously (+1/2), Variable Effect Four Skills Simultaneously (+1) (15 Active Points) (Real Cost: 15)

Powers Cost: 58

[end quote]

[Monolith]

That is too much work for me. I would be more inclined to go as follows:

 

10 VPP (Skills Pool), No Skill Roll, 0 Phase to Switch, Skills Only: -1, Only to get skills from a target with Telepathy roll at +20: -1. 15 points

 

The power is useful to a player, but pay 58 points for it is too extreme IMO.

[JohnathanChance]

I would probably say buy it as an Aid since who you use it on keeps their skills, also I would limit it to only as many points in that skill they had. That way someone who was barely able to keep a car between the painted lines won't allow you to become Mario Andretti:D

[Crimson-Hawk]

I'm inclinded to agree with Monolith's build of the power. Much simpler and more cost efficient.

 

However, it all depends on the tastes of the GM and the style of the campaign. Maybe being able to steal other's skills like that will break the whole campaign open like a Russian egg... if so, Ndreare's method may be better just to reflect the cost of such usefulness.

 

But in most superheroic campaigns I'd run, Monolith's build would suit my taste better.

[Ndreare]

I thought about the V.P.P. but it seamed not only to cheep cost wise but Skills as powers are considered special powers.

 

Also I should point out that the character has a 13D6 Mind Scan outside of his Mental multipower so he can often find people he knows with the skills necisary. So 15 points for almost always having the correct skill seemed to cheep for me while at the same time I agree with monolith that my way is to far on the other side of cost balance. Maybe if I thought some more on the actual gains.

 

A primary concern I had was that the power would be to cheep but it sounds like that is not something other GM's would be bothered by. (I kept thinking this is to cheep then this is to expensive and was unable to make up my mind.)

[Talon]

I think a Skills VPP is way too cheap (my usual rule is each +1 to skill counts as 5 active points).

 

Technically, the Transfer is illegal for skills which the character does not already have. If you ignore that point (or apply a house rule Adder to let it work), it's a fine construction. I'd suggest taking a Multipower with the Transfer in one slot and a similiar Aid in another; that will get you the "target can keep skills" functionality for fewer points.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Then it sounds like you're doing the right thing, Ndreare.

 

Especially with the ungodly Mind Scan, to be able to VPP any skill at any time simply by making a successful Mind Scan does seem unbalanced.

 

I'd probably build it as follows:

 

Cosmic Skill Pool: Variable Power Pool, 12-point Reserve, Cosmic (+2) (30 Active Points); Base Skills Only (-1/4), Must find a target with appropriate skill with Mind Scan and succeed in a Telepathy roll at +20 on the target (-1/4). Total Cost: 24 points.

 

By "Base Skills," I mean skills bought at 3 Active Points. Thus, your villain would only be able to "borrow" the Disguise skill at a standard PRE roll, no higher. Or borrow a Knowledge skill at a standard INT roll, no higher.

 

I chose to make it Cosmic because the villain isn't really limited on what skill he can have. Considering his Mind Scan, he can have pretty much any skill he wants just by making a decent Mind Scan roll. In the same light, I reduced the values of the Limitations Monolith originally assigned to the VPP; with the Mind Scan, they just aren't as limiting as they would otherwise be.

 

24 points may still be too cheap in your mind, and I wouldn't blame you. As you pointed out, Skills are Special Powers when referenced by Frameworks, so they're considered STOP Powers. This is indeed important to remember.

 

However, since this is an NPC villain, this shouldn't be an issue. You shouldn't concentrate so much on the point-value of the villain as you should the subjective ability of the villain to kick the stuffing out of the PCs. Menton, Istvatha V'han, Takofanes, and even Doc Dee are all far more powerful than their point values would indicate because they have access to either resources not bought with character points or they have powers that, when combined together, are far more deadly than their point costs would have you believe.

 

That said, that VPP (either mine or even Monolith's) would never, ever fall into the hands of one of my players. It's far too unbalancing. But I would gleefully add it to one of my villains. Does that make me two-faced? Perhaps, yes. But, as long as I advertise the villain for what he is (one capable of easily outthinking the PCs), then it simply contributes to the challenge of the villain and thus the enjoyment of the encounter as a whole.

[Derek Hiemforth]

As I mentioned on the Hero System board, another possibility (if you want to keep it strictly book-legal, and not use Transfer on Skills or put Skills in a VPP) would be to use a VPP to allocate Powers that simulate the effects of Skills. For example, while you technically can't Transfer Stealth or put Stealth in a VPP, you can put Invisibility or Images (with appropriate Limitations) in a VPP and call the resulting effect "Stealth."

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Well, to avoid dodgy constructs:

 

By *every* skill with the limitation: Needs to locate/read mind (-1?).

Buy KS: Things at an obscene level with the same lim. etc.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Heh. I'm beginning to realize why Geoff Speare's signature is so profound and appropriate.

[BoloOfEarth]

As a GM who allowed a player to buy the VPP version for his character, I can attest that it is not necessarily abusive, depending on how you handle it.

 

First of all, the person he is acquiring the skill from will know that he was the target of a mental attack (barring massive Advantages or special care). He will also know, generally, where the mentalist is. Most mentalists that I "know" (game-wise) avoid advertising their presence like the plague. Thus, the mentalist tends to police him/herself.

 

Second, the player made sure it took time to acquire the skill (which I heartily endorsed). It won't be a 1-phase action, which limits the usefulness in emergency situations.

 

Finally, it allows for some really cool roleplaying opportunities. For instance, the PC in question once used the skill to acquire the skill to perform an exorcism (from a priest who was performing an exorcism), expecting that Dark Seraph would show up and interrupt the proceedings. The whole thing played out wonderfully.

 

It's not something I would do lightly, but if the player and GM approach it the right way, it's not bad.

[William Bushway]

The way we used to do it in 4th ed. was to buy Cramming and Overall Skill Levels [Requires successful Telepathy or Analyze Style skill roll (-1/2), only to match target's skill level (-1/2)]. However, this breaks the rules in 2 ways:

 

Cramming requires "several hours of study." We always hand-waved it, saying that Telepathy (or in the case of MA, Analyze Style) could tell you enough to mimic a person's skills.

 

Skills obtained by Cramming cannot be modified by Skill Levels, and in fact can't be raised above 8- by any means.

 

However, the cost of the ability somewhat balances the effect - costs appear to be in-line with Ndreare's original construction:

 

20 Cramming, 4 skills

40 8 Overall Skill Levels, Requires successful Telepathy or Analyze Style skill roll (-1/2), only to match target's skill level (-1/2)