Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

[JmOz]

I got a curiosity, wondering how my archer ranks up against the best of the best in hero products in marksmanship.

 

So who is the best marksman? Using published characters, including Digital Hero. As a starting point I will go with Harbinger of Justice (Hudson City 5th edition)

 

Base OCV: 8

Martial Arts Move: +1

Martial Arts RSL's: +4

All Combat: +5

RSL's: +8

TSL's: +8

 

Total OCV: 34

 

Not bad for a Dark champions Character...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Well. looks like I've gotta beef up my sniper who has a +12 OCV when using rifles w/ an addt'l +3 RSLs (for a +15 and range). Though everyone's at 1/2 DCV against me (Full Invisibility) so that can kick me up to ~20OCV Effectively depending...

 

still, I'm not nearly good enough it seems. time to get some more CSLs.

 

So - how DID you stand up to the best of the best?

[keithcurtis]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

What's a TSL?

And an RSL doesn't increase his OCV, just eliminates penalties. If he's firing at anything 20 meaters away or less, they get him nothing.

Still, I'd abort to... well, die.

 

Keith "Nyah, nyah you can't hit m-- krak! ouch. thud." Curtis

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

I think he means "Overall Skill Levels," Keith, perhaps substituting "Total" for "Overall."

[OddHat]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

What's a TSL?

And an RSL doesn't increase his OCV, just eliminates penalties. If he's firing at anything 20 meaters away or less, they get him nothing.

Still, I'd abort to... well, die.

 

Keith "Nyah, nyah you can't hit m-- krak! ouch. thud." Curtis

 

Nah, just Dive For Cover one hex to your right, and an OCV of 34 (or 134, or...) means nothing, even if you only have a DCV of 1. As long as you make your Dex Roll -1, you're fine.

 

[caris]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

I think he means "Overall Skill Levels' date='" Keith, perhaps substituting "Total" for "Overall."[/quote']

 

I figured that it meant "Targeting Skill Levels"

[ghost-angel]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Nah, just Dive For Cover one hex to your right, and an OCV of 34 (or 134, or...) means nothing, even if you only have a DCV of 1. As long as you make your Dex Roll -1, you're fine.

 

 

I think that makes my character a better sniper, you won't know my bullet is coming until after your dead...

 

I'm still not a better marksman though.

[JmOz]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

TSL's are Targetting Skill Levels, admitingly for him to have that OCV of 34 is very specific (Must be 256" or 512 meters, away, must be making a head or harder shot, etc...).

 

I was wondering however if anyone knows of any other characters with such a high ocv?

 

As for my character the Marksman

 

Base OCV: 10

Martial Arts Manuver: +0

Martial Arts RSL's: +0

All Combat: +0

CSL's w/Ranged Martial Arts: +5

RSL's: +0

TSL's: +0

 

Total OCV: 15

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

What's a "Targeting Skill Level?" I looked in the 5ER index, under both "Target" and "Skill Level," and glanced over the descriptive section of Skill Levels, and didn't see "TSLs" mentioned. Did you create them yourself? If not, where can they be found in 5ER?

[JmOz]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

They are a form of penalty skill level, I probably have the name wrong, but they negate the penalty for targeting (Such as making a head shot)

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

They are a form of penalty skill level' date=' I probably have the name wrong, but they negate the penalty for targeting (Such as making a head shot)[/quote']

 

Oh, then that makes sense. There are a multitude of different possible PSLs.

[Susano]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

I got a curiosity, wondering how my archer ranks up against the best of the best in hero products in marksmanship.

 

So who is the best marksman? Using published characters, including Digital Hero. As a starting point I will go with Harbinger of Justice (Hudson City 5th edition)

 

Base OCV: 8

Martial Arts Move: +1

Martial Arts RSL's: +4

All Combat: +5

RSL's: +8

TSL's: +8

 

Total OCV: 34

 

Not bad for a Dark champions Character...

 

Actually, the total OCV is 8+1+5, or 14.

 

However, your 14 OCV holds out to 256" and you can target any body part at will with no loss of OCV. RSLs & TSLs don't increase your base OCV, simply counteract minuses to it.

 

Oh, and for comparison, Amayultare the dark elf archer (showed up in Digital Hero) has a max OCV of 12.

 

Base OCV 7

Quick Shot +1

Bows +2

Martial Art +2

 

Andy Lau (will show up in Digital Hero) has a max OCV of 14.

 

Base OCV 8

Trained Shot +2

Small Arms +4

 

(He also has +4 OCV with Two-Weapon Fighting).

[JmOz]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

I know how PSL's work, I'm including them because I feel that they are part of the whole picture of skill as a marksman. Adding them because it makes the comparisons easier...

[Edsel]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

The write-up for the Harbinger of Justice (in Hudson City) is as follows:

 

Base OCV: 8

MA, Accurate Shot: +2

VPP bought abilities: +2 and No Range Penalties

CSL: +5 All Combat

TSL: +8

His custom built MK I Handgun: +3 OCV

Total OCV = 20 w/No range penalties and he can target any hit location w/no penalty.

His pistol does base: 3d6+2 RKA, Penetrating w/ +2 STUN Multiplier

His MA added DCs will boost this to: around 4d6 RKA

 

And this is being conseritave with his VPP abilities.

Also since his base PRE is 40 (which can be bought up with the Super Skills of the VPP), if he reveals himself with a PRE attack you will probably just stand there in awe while he puts the gun to your head.

[Ereinion]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Nah, just Dive For Cover one hex to your right, and an OCV of 34 (or 134, or...) means nothing, even if you only have a DCV of 1. As long as you make your Dex Roll -1, you're fine.

 

is this possible? I thought that you could only dive out of area effect attacks. I was under the impression that trying to dodge a direct shot would be well, dodging. can anyone clarify this for me?

[OddHat]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

is this possible? I thought that you could only dive out of area effect attacks. I was under the impression that trying to dodge a direct shot would be well' date=' dodging. can anyone clarify this for me?[/quote']

 

Check the text in 5thER. You can DFC from any attack, even one aimed straight at you. The difference between this and a Dodge is that the bonus DCV when dodging lasts until your next phase, making you harder to hit againsts multiple foes and unimpaired when your phase comes up. A successful DFC negates one attack, but leave you prone, and at a disadvantage until you can get up again. Against multiple or much faster foes, DFC is a poor choice.

 

However, the fact that a DCV 3 Normal could DFC successfully from an attack by an OCV 15 Martial Arts Demi-God still strikes me as very silly.

[Vorsch]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Even God couldnt hit you directly.

 

Yay 5th

[Fox1]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

However' date=' the fact that a DCV 3 Normal could DFC successfully from an attack by an OCV 15 Martial Arts Demi-God still strikes me as very silly. [/quote']

 

It was an extremely foolish change in 5th edition, one that I immediately house ruled away.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Yes it's one that you see in Cinema all the time where the guy dives out of the way of a single shooter...

[OddHat]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Yes it's one that you see in Cinema all the time where the guy dives out of the way of a single shooter...

 

And this is the key to the debate. In some genres, for some characters, it makes sense to be able to slo-mo dive out of the way of a single attacker. Other times (OCV 12 speedster punching a DCV 3 normal) it's absurd. In my Champions campaign, I'm treating it as a mook rule, with exceptional characters able to DFC when it's cinematic to do so while most NPCs just don't, but I don't claim that's a perfect solution. It does fit the cinematic level of the campaign.

[Fox1]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Yes it's one that you see in Cinema all the time where the guy dives out of the way of a single shooter...

 

Until 5th edition, it was called a Dodge. HERO (like nearly all rpgs) simply skips much of the natural movement you see in combat in order to keep things simple.

 

If you must reflect the natural movement of a Dodge for your own suspension of disbelief, just house rule a 1 hex movement requirement for Dodge to be taken after the attack attempt is resolved.

 

Greater degrees of Cinema Dodges can be handled with the Flying Dodge maneuver, although again I strongly suggest that you house rule it so that such movement is taken after the attack attempt is resolved.

 

I'm so strongly against the 5th edition changes, that I would not play in any GM's campaign who enforced them. I'd pass it by to go try out someone's D&D game instead.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Until 5th edition, it was called a Dodge. HERO (like nearly all rpgs) simply skips much of the natural movement you see in combat in order to keep things simple.

 

If you must reflect the natural movement of a Dodge for your own suspension of disbelief, just house rule a 1 hex movement requirement for Dodge to be taken after the attack attempt is resolved.

 

Greater degrees of Cinema Dodges can be handled with the Flying Dodge maneuver, although again I strongly suggest that you house rule it so that such movement is taken after the attack attempt is resolved.

 

I'm so strongly against the 5th edition changes, that I would not play in any GM's campaign who enforced them. I'd pass it by to go try out someone's D&D game instead.

why are you playing Fifth Edition again? You seem to be against every change it's made. I'm just curious as it seems you'd be much happier with a previous version of the system. I can't decide if you're one of those people who resist/hate change simply because it's change or if the current incarnation of 'the game' doesn't fit your worldview.. either way, why not fall back to a previous system?

[Fox1]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

why are you playing Fifth Edition again? You seem to be against every change it's made. I'm just curious as it seems you'd be much happier with a previous version of the system.?

 

I recently got a few new players who wanted their own copy of the rules. It's possible to still get used 4th edition copies, however 5th edition included a vast number of rules that were scattered in different books in previous editions. Thus it was a choice for my new players between buying one new book, or a number of used/worn ones. So the one book resource was a *major* bonus for me.

 

There are also a few changes I approve of. STR Min for example needed to split from AP and is in 5th edition. The index is wonderful, the best I've used in gaming bar none. And so on.

 

RPGs do not follow a simple "newer = better". There are things I liked in previous editions, and things I like better in newer editions. I have the freedom to select from the entire published material that which best suits me as well as the freedom to add and take away from that as I wish.

 

Thus life is good.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Thus life is good.

Fair enough, can't argue with that logic.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Who is the greatest Marksman (or Woman)

 

Who is the greatest marksman?

 

Are you kidding? The Lone Ranger™ is the greatest marksman of all time.

 

::cue William Tell Overture::