Can someone explain....

[ghost-angel]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

+22" Running = +11" Jumping if you move the Full 22" Inches In A Phase. yes.

 

You don't get the +Jump" if you don't move the full movement of Running, thus is it only useful when you have space to do so (forgot that part) and a GM would (should!) enact Dramatic Sense that it has to be in a reasonable strait line (no running in a 2 hex circle to gain speed).

[Profit]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I must not be a one of those munchkin players, I never would have thought of running in a 2 hex circle to gain speed. I just assumed moving about 3 hexes to get up to full speed and jumping.

 

Prof

[ghost-angel]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I must not be a one of those munchkin players, I never would have thought of running in a 2 hex circle to gain speed. I just assumed moving about 3 hexes to get up to full speed and jumping.

 

Prof

Ah good. keep thinking that way. Or I'll have to have Duke Bushido shoot you with his Munchkin Gun (posts 5-6).

[Bloodstone]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

Okay, I have to chime in here for a moment. There are multiple ways to do many of the classic super speedster stunts. Generally, the easist way to do all of them is to buy limited Flight (Only in Contact with a Surface). But lets compare and contrast for a moment here:

 

44 Superspeed: Flight 22", No Turn Mode (+1/4) (55 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4) 5

 

No Turn mode is necessay fo rthe kind of maneuverability most speedsters crave. Now the advantage here is, you can run up buildings and across water. A GM might even let you run along telephone lines or other narrow curfaces or dash across falling objects. A disadvantge is that you also take more knockback while using it, which can be a pain for most speedsters. And it also costs you 5 END per phase.

 

So lets look at the running option. All characters start with 6" of running, so to get up to 22" you just need to buy 16" more inches.

 

+16" of Running costs you 32 points, but you can't run on walls or across water with it. Still, it costs only 3 end per phase and costs 12 points less overall. Now all you need to do is find a way to run on water and up walls. The solution? We buy a multipower and pick up limited Clinging and Swimming.

 

32 Superspeed: Multipower, 32-point reserve

3u 1) Running +16" (22" total) (32 Active Points) 3

1u 2) Swimming +20" (22" total) (20 Active Points); Surface Only (-1) 2

 

6 Run Up Walls: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); Cannot Resist Knockback (-1/4), Only While Moving (Must make at least a half move each Phase; -1/4), No Ceiling Movement Or Angles Of Less Then 80 Degrees (-1/4)

 

The Clinging has to be kept out of the multipower obviously, so that you can use it at the same time as your Running. Even so, this second construct costs 2 points less and does just about everything the first one does. You can run up walls, allong narrow surface and on water. If you like, you can even get rid of the "no celing movement" limitation on the Clinging and the "Surface Only" lim on the swimming and you will pay the same price (44 RC). But no matter what, you're still spending less end per phase AND you don't suffer that extra knockback.

 

Mind you, I have no idea how many points you have to play around with in the game otherwise I would make lots of other suggestions...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

DOH! Didn't realize there was a page 2... hope I didn't repeat anything anyone else said... *starts reading*

 

yep, I did... oh well, the constructs are still there to compare and contrast.

[Yogzilla]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

One thing you'll learn awfully quick, Profit, is that with HERO System you can make the same power several different ways...

[Lethosos]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

One thing you'll learn awfully quick' date=' Profit, is that with HERO System you can make the same power several different ways... [/quote']

The idea is, of course, the effect that you're aiming for. Look at what you want to do, and build from there.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

...

32 Superspeed: Multipower, 32-point reserve

3u 1) Running +16" (22" total) (32 Active Points) 3

1u 2) Swimming +20" (22" total) (20 Active Points); Surface Only (-1) 2

 

6 Run Up Walls: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); Cannot Resist Knockback (-1/4), Only While Moving (Must make at least a half move each Phase; -1/4), No Ceiling Movement Or Angles Of Less Then 80 Degrees (-1/4) ...

Thank you...I was just about to say this I've always hated the "Flight/Surfaces Only" version of high speed running. I think this is much more elegant and appropriate. Clinging w/ stall velocity (As I wrote it before) is my preferred system.

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

Thank you...I was just about to say this I've always hated the "Flight/Surfaces Only" version of high speed running. I think this is much more elegant and appropriate. Clinging w/ stall velocity (As I wrote it before) is my preferred system.

I personally don't care for clinging due to the movement rate decreases. You never see Flash going slower just because he's running up a wall.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I personally don't care for clinging due to the movement rate decreases. You never see Flash going slower just because he's running up a wall.

Actually, they're usually still pictures, so the velocity is the same

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

Actually' date=' they're usually still pictures, so the velocity is the same [/quote']

You mean you don't have the new-fangled motion comic books?

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

"No Turn Mode" is a +1/4 for Flight already ... which puts "Flight Like Running" either into the same category or a smaller advantage, which you can't do. So "No Turn More on the ground" is also a +1/4 ... hrm.

 

Or am I not thinking like your thinking?

Yes, you can use the No Turn Mode but the advantage to using the Usable As Running is that you then gain access to the free 6" so that you can go a little faster.

 

The problem is not all advantages are created equal, but that's an argument for another thread.

[Profit]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I personally don't care for clinging due to the movement rate decreases. You never see Flash going slower just because he's running up a wall.

 

The rational behind Flash running up a wall was that he was moving so fast his momentum was carrying him up it. So to do clinging wouldn't we have to add a disadvantage must make a full move first, so you build the velocity, and maybe a advantage that says does not cause speed decrease? And maybe another disadvantage that says can not change direction when using to move up a wall?

 

Prof

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

The rational behind Flash running up a wall was that he was moving so fast his momentum was carrying him up it. So to do clinging wouldn't we have to add a disadvantage must make a full move first, so you build the velocity, and maybe a advantage that says does not cause speed decrease? And maybe another disadvantage that says can not change direction when using to move up a wall?

 

Prof

Honestly, that's too much thinking for a simple power. The fact is that Flash succeeds unless the writer does not want him to. The player is the Flash, the writer is the GM, and the GM can just role-play a rare situation where the player can't succeed.

[Profit]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I see what you mean by thinking it through to much. Perhaps that has been my block, I'm going to go with something using the multipower, swimming, clinging, running deal. Although, I'll probably see if I can get it put in a EC as its all superspeed movement. And then, I'll just buy up the NCM to achieve large distance movement. That sounds more reasonable.

 

 

Prof

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I see what you mean by thinking it through to much. Perhaps that has been my block, I'm going to go with something using the multipower, swimming, clinging, running deal. Although, I'll probably see if I can get it put in a EC as its all superspeed movement. And then, I'll just buy up the NCM to achieve large distance movement. That sounds more reasonable.

 

 

Prof

A multipower is the best bet, as you can't really use two movement powers at the same time.

 

But using the Usable As Running advantage allows you to put it into and EC slot without all the fuss. That's another advantage to the advantage.

[Profit]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

Well, I do plan to incorporate the walking through walls trick that the Flashes do. I already cleared it with the GM. I was planning on making it part or the speed movement EC I was making. Which is why I was going to put it all in the EC. Course, the stipulation to the desolidifaction is that I have to be moving. So, where I made completey immobile I couldn't use it. Although, if that is dirty pool then I want to know.

 

Prof

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

Well, I do plan to incorporate the walking through walls trick that the Flashes do. I already cleared it with the GM. I was planning on making it part or the speed movement EC I was making. Which is why I was going to put it all in the EC. Course, the stipulation to the desolidifaction is that I have to be moving. So, where I made completey immobile I couldn't use it. Although, if that is dirty pool then I want to know.

 

Prof

The only reason I mentioned not putting more than 1 movement power in an elemental is due to the cost. Here are 3 examples:

 

25 Super-Speed Control: 50 point Elemental

21 a) Wall Running: 17" Flight, 1/2 End: +1/4, No Turn Mode: +1/4, Must touch a surface: -1/4

25 Fast Running: +20" Running, 1/2 End: +1/4

20 c) Move Through Walls: Desolidification, 1/2 End: +1/4, Must Be Able To Run: -1/425

Total Cost: 91 points

 

Or you can go:

 

25 Super-Speed Control: 50 point Elemental

21 a) Wall Running: 17" Flight, 1/2 End: +1/4, Usable As Running: +1/4, Must touch a surface: -1/4

20 Move Through Walls: Desolidification, 1/2 End: +1/4, Must Be Able To Run: -1/4

Total Cost: 66 points

 

Or you can go:

 

51 Super-Speed Control: 51 pt Multipower

4 1) Wall Running: 17" Flight, 1/2 End: +1/4, No Turn Mode: +1/4, Must touch a surface: -1/4

5 2) Fast Running: +20" Running, 1/2 End: +1/4

 

33 Move Through Walls: Desolidification, 1/2 End: +1/4, Linked to: -1/2

Total Cost: 93

[Profit]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

The only reason I mentioned not putting more than 1 movement power in an elemental is due to the cost. Here are 3 examples:

 

25 Super-Speed Control: 50 point Elemental

21 a) Wall Running: 17" Flight, 1/2 End: +1/4, No Turn Mode: +1/4, Must touch a surface: -1/4

25 Fast Running: +20" Running, 1/2 End: +1/4

20 c) Move Through Walls: Desolidification, 1/2 End: +1/4, Must Be Able To Run: -1/425

Total Cost: 91 points

 

Or you can go:

 

25 Super-Speed Control: 50 point Elemental

21 a) Wall Running: 17" Flight, 1/2 End: +1/4, Usable As Running: +1/4, Must touch a surface: -1/4

20 Move Through Walls: Desolidification, 1/2 End: +1/4, Must Be Able To Run: -1/4

Total Cost: 66 points

 

Or you can go:

 

51 Super-Speed Control: 51 pt Multipower

4 1) Wall Running: 17" Flight, 1/2 End: +1/4, No Turn Mode: +1/4, Must touch a surface: -1/4

5 2) Fast Running: +20" Running, 1/2 End: +1/4

 

33 Move Through Walls: Desolidification, 1/2 End: +1/4, Linked to: -1/2

Total Cost: 93

 

In the multipower, you linked that to fast running, I'm guessing. And by looking at your examples, it appears its 2 points more do it in a multipower. Is that right? Or am I missing the big picture in the examples?

 

Prof

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

In the multipower, you linked that to fast running, I'm guessing. And by looking at your examples, it appears its 2 points more do it in a multipower. Is that right? Or am I missing the big picture in the examples?

 

Prof

Yes, the move through walls in the 3rd example is linked to whichever slot in the multipower you want [that's part of the drawback]. And yes, it's 2 points more to do it in an elemental, but the version I would choose is the second example, which is 25 points less.

[Profit]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

The 25 point less version doesn't have a fast running listed in it, just wall running and move through walls, is that intentional on your part? Are you planning on using the wall running and renaming it fast running? I think you meant to do the latter, but I gave up trying to read peoples minds a long time ago.

 

Prof

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

The 25 point less version doesn't have a fast running listed in it, just wall running and move through walls, is that intentional on your part? Are you planning on using the wall running and renaming it fast running? I think you meant to do the latter, but I gave up trying to read peoples minds a long time ago.

 

Prof

The second version I just kept named Wall Running because you can run on the ground [as running] or you run up walls and over water [as flight]. You could also just rename it Super-Running.

 

The second version has Fast Running bought as an advantage to the flight [usable as running]. That advantage allows you to remove a slot [and the slot cost] and still get the same basic effect.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I personally don't care for clinging due to the movement rate decreases. You never see Flash going slower just because he's running up a wall.

 

Huh?

 

Moving against gravity to run up a wall requires you to use 2" of flight for every 1" moved (p364 5ER).

 

Using clinging to run up a wall similarly costs 2" of running for every 1" moved (p142 5ER).

 

So both builds can run 11" up a building in one full phase using a full move.

 

I'm pretty sure it's always worked that way in 5th, but I don't have my old copy of FRED on hand to prove it.

[MitchellS]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

Huh?

 

Moving against gravity to run up a wall requires you to use 2" of flight for every 1" moved (p364 5ER).

 

Using clinging to run up a wall similarly costs 2" of running for every 1" moved (p142 5ER).

 

So both builds can run 11" up a building in one full phase using a full move.

 

I'm pretty sure it's always worked that way in 5th, but I don't have my old copy of FRED on hand to prove it.

You are correct. Our house rule does not require that movement loss with "running" flight. I was thinking about the house rule rather than the official rule.

[Tiree]

Re: Can someone explain....

 

I am not sure if I would go with your option 3 the Multipower. Why not put the Desolidification in the multipower? I just don't see very often people running at top notch and not slow down when they hit the wall for desolidification.

 

Unless you are using the desolidification like they utilize it for a stretchy character. Then you can use it to kind of simulate the super fast running around things just by going through them.