Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Non-combat Movement? Is it automatic? Do I have to pay for the first x2 of it? Thanks in advance. And if this should be in the rules forum, let me know, I only asked here because I read the multipower thread here. Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Non-combat movement allows you to move twice as fast [basically all movement powers are the first x2 ncb is free] but the trade-off is that you are half CV. So a normal person has 6" of running but can move 12" non-combat speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... IIRC It's an automatic X2 for NC, unless you put the megascale movement advantage on it, in that case the advantage replaces and supercedes the X2. For every level of NC beyond the first X2, you spend 5 points. You CAN put a -1/4 limitation of no noncombat value but that's a deliberate choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Ok, since that question has been answered, I have one more. I'm building a character(I roped a friend at worked who used to play champions into running a game...Mwahahaha) and as with any super hero rpg I play, my first character has to be a speedster. I plan on taking 22'' of flying (-1/4 Must be touching some surface) for the superspeed running(up walls etc). Would I still need to take 22'' of running as well? And if so, what is the advantage to such a thing? They both yield the same movement speed if the hero movement spreadsheet is correct. Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... No, you can leave your Running as is. You just can't run up walls with it. 22" Flying; Touching a surface simply allows you fly up walls, across ceilings, etc... Running could then simply be used as your Non-Super movement. For your Secret ID if you have one, or when you just need to go into the 7-11 for a snack and have no need to sprint in sideways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Ok, since that question has been answered, I have one more. I'm building a character(I roped a friend at worked who used to play champions into running a game...Mwahahaha) and as with any super hero rpg I play, my first character has to be a speedster. I plan on taking 22'' of flying (-1/4 Must be touching some surface) for the superspeed running(up walls etc). Would I still need to take 22'' of running as well? And if so, what is the advantage to such a thing? They both yield the same movement speed if the hero movement spreadsheet is correct. Prof Humm...not if you buy the power with the advantage "Useable As Running", meaning you can chose to 'run' (touch the ground) or 'fly' (touching the surface of objects you are crossing) at your choice. Without that, your only going to be realy running 12". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Humm...not if you buy the power with the advantage "Useable As Running"' date=' meaning you can chose to 'run' (touch the ground) or 'fly' (touching the surface of objects you are crossing) at your choice. Without that, your only going to be realy running 12".[/quote'] Just as an aside .. I would never allow anyone to ever purchase Flight; Usable As Running. That would make Running cheaper than Running. that's a no no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Just as an aside .. I would never allow anyone to ever purchase Flight; Usable As Running. That would make Running cheaper than Running. that's a no no. Actually wouldn't it just make it the same cost? Super-Movement: 20" Flight, Usable as Running: +1/4, must touch a surface: -1/4. Total Cost: 40 points [but the kicker is that it uses 5 end instead of 4 ]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Actually wouldn't it just make it the same cost? Super-Movement: 20" Flight, Usable as Running: +1/4, must touch a surface: -1/4. Total Cost: 40 points [but the kicker is that it uses 5 end instead of 4 ]. Ok, yeah - if it's an advantage ... I was thinking someone was trying to sneak a disadvantage of "Can't fly with Flight" past the GM there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Ok, since that question has been answered, I have one more. I'm building a character(I roped a friend at worked who used to play champions into running a game...Mwahahaha) and as with any super hero rpg I play, my first character has to be a speedster. I plan on taking 22'' of flying (-1/4 Must be touching some surface) for the superspeed running(up walls etc). Would I still need to take 22'' of running as well? And if so, what is the advantage to such a thing? They both yield the same movement speed if the hero movement spreadsheet is correct. Prof The advantage to running is that it doesn't have a turn mode. The usable as running advantage is a good because it allows you to run around on the ground without a turn mode but when on an unusual surface [water, walls, etc] you do have a turn mode to simulate how much more difficult that surface is for you. But to answer the question, no, you do not need to buy both running and flight to simulate a speedster. Either is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Humm...not if you buy the power with the advantage "Useable As Running"' date=' meaning you can chose to 'run' (touch the ground) or 'fly' (touching the surface of objects you are crossing) at your choice. Without that, your only going to be realy running 12".[/quote'] Ah, the wording. Is useable as running still a -1/4 limitation, I didn't see it in the book. I'll be posting the character today or tommorrow, He's nearing completetion. Just a few little things I'm still going over, like this. I really am trying for a classic Silver Age scarlet speedster deal. Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Just as an aside .. I would never allow anyone to ever purchase Flight; Usable As Running. That would make Running cheaper than Running. that's a no no. Nice to see that I'm not the only GM to shoot this down. Saw it in the first set of rules, way back when, and thought: you know; I'll allow it. But it's not going to be one bit cheaper than running, and you'll still have to use a Turn Mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... So the useable as running is a bad thing then? Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... The advantage to running is that it doesn't have a turn mode. The usable as running advantage is a good because it allows you to run around on the ground without a turn mode but when on an unusual surface [water' date= walls, etc] you do have a turn mode to simulate how much more difficult that surface is for you. But to answer the question, no, you do not need to buy both running and flight to simulate a speedster. Either is fine. "No Turn Mode" is a +1/4 for Flight already ... which puts "Flight Like Running" either into the same category or a smaller advantage, which you can't do. So "No Turn More on the ground" is also a +1/4 ... hrm. Or am I not thinking like your thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Nice to see that I'm not the only GM to shoot this down. Saw it in the first set of rules' date=' way back when, and thought: you know; I'll allow it. But it's not going to be one bit cheaper than running, and you'll still have to use a Turn Mode.[/quote'] Just a note: I would allow "Flight: On surfaces only" to go up buidlings with it. but would automatically remove the ability to hover as well. Buy Clinging for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... So the useable as running is a bad thing then? Prof BBWWAAAAAAAAAA--HHAAAAA--HAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! Welcome to the board, Profit! Welcome to the one place where you are garaunteed to get many, many, many ideas on how to build the exact same effect, and a great deal of reassurance that if your GM says it's all good, then it's all good! Everything is relative, really. Who will or will not accept a power built 'this way' or 'that way' is a matter of personal interpretations and prefferences. Some folks will allow it as-is, some will dismiss it on it's basis, and others will allow it with provisions X, Y, and Z (usually as additional advantages or Limitations). I can't speak for everyone here (that would be rudely presumptive), but there are a lot of us here who just like to tinker with the rules. For example, if you were to want to build such a character for a game I was running, I would look closely at what you're proposing with Flight, but wouldn't bat an eye if you bought up plain ol' Running and added Clinging to it. I might even allow 'Swimming: surface only' to simulate that. I won't mind this because 1) it's more expensive, so you won't get obnoxious in a hurry and 2) the powers are overall less effective than 'Flight: must touch a surface.' If you were to insist on the Flight, I might require that you buy enough advantages to at least cancel out any disadvantages that you take on the power in order to simulate super-speed running. (if you buy unique Limitations for other reasons on this power, that's fine). Thus, as G-A pointed out, _your_ Running will not be cheaper than _the_ Running. (both are 2pts per +1" base cost), even though you will have a bit more utility from it. So right off the bat you have 'Must be touching a surface' for -1/4. Owing to character concept, I'd probably require that to be 'must be touching surface _throughout_ movement, to prevent it becomming 'super hopping' or some such thing when the situation warranted it. It would remain -1/4. I would also require that you accept the limitation 'cannot hover,' meaning that if you stop while running up a wall, you will drop like a stone. It would be a part of that -1/4. (no, I'm not hard-hearted. I'm just leery of shortcutting by using limited powers to simulate advantaged powers or power suites). I would also remind you that with Flight, you are subject to a turn mode, and in close quarters, that's kind of a pain. A lot of players don't mind it, as it fits with their idea of 'tremendous speed.' But it still makes combat a nuisance indoors. I don't remember if 5E has an advantage to 'do away' with a turn mode, but I'm sure that penalty skill levels will help here. I might suggest them to you. I'm not really sure what (if anything) I'd require you to take as Limitations, but I'd do my best to find at least +1/4 worth unless you had a very solid conception or I was confident you weren't going to be abusive with the power or character. Have fun with it. Oh, and if Mitchel S posts a construct or two, pay attention to it. He's got some really nifty ideas on how to build things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Just a note: I would allow "Flight: On surfaces only" to go up buidlings with it. but would automatically remove the ability to hover as well. Buy Clinging for that. So, if I'm reading this right, On surfaces only is fine, you can not hover at all. No problem there. Would still be able to run up the side of a building. Good. And I would still need to buy running 22'' in order to cover vast distances, or would the flight be able to cover the vast distances also, and be able to do so at such a hgih speed? Or would the flying be a hero id thing and then running be a, I'm out on the street and need to move that little girl out of the way of that bus seems kind of off. Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... The 'speed' at which you move is a result of multiplying the amount you move (how many inches of the power you have) times your SPD characteristic (how many 'turns' you get to move every 12 seconds). And if you are moving non-combat, you multiply this final result by your NCN. So even 10 or 5 inches can by fast, if you have a SPD 12 or lots of NCM. It's one of those 'relative' things. Need to know 'fast _how_?' to really give you a better answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... BBWWAAAAAAAAAA--HHAAAAA--HAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! Welcome to the board, Profit! Welcome to the one place where you are garaunteed to get many, many, many ideas on how to build the exact same effect, and a great deal of reassurance that if your GM says it's all good, then it's all good! Everything is relative, really. Who will or will not accept a power built 'this way' or 'that way' is a matter of personal interpretations and prefferences. Some folks will allow it as-is, some will dismiss it on it's basis, and others will allow it with provisions X, Y, and Z (usually as additional advantages or Limitations). I can't speak for everyone here (that would be rudely presumptive), but there are a lot of us here who just like to tinker with the rules. For example, if you were to want to build such a character for a game I was running, I would look closely at what you're proposing with Flight, but wouldn't bat an eye if you bought up plain ol' Running and added Clinging to it. I might even allow 'Swimming: surface only' to simulate that. I won't mind this because 1) it's more expensive, so you won't get obnoxious in a hurry and 2) the powers are overall less effective than 'Flight: must touch a surface.' If you were to insist on the Flight, I might require that you buy enough advantages to at least cancel out any disadvantages that you take on the power in order to simulate super-speed running. (if you buy unique Limitations for other reasons on this power, that's fine). Thus, as G-A pointed out, _your_ Running will not be cheaper than _the_ Running. (both are 2pts per +1" base cost), even though you will have a bit more utility from it. So right off the bat you have 'Must be touching a surface' for -1/4. Owing to character concept, I'd probably require that to be 'must be touching surface _throughout_ movement, to prevent it becomming 'super hopping' or some such thing when the situation warranted it. It would remain -1/4. I would also require that you accept the limitation 'cannot hover,' meaning that if you stop while running up a wall, you will drop like a stone. It would be a part of that -1/4. (no, I'm not hard-hearted. I'm just leery of shortcutting by using limited powers to simulate advantaged powers or power suites). I would also remind you that with Flight, you are subject to a turn mode, and in close quarters, that's kind of a pain. A lot of players don't mind it, as it fits with their idea of 'tremendous speed.' But it still makes combat a nuisance indoors. I don't remember if 5E has an advantage to 'do away' with a turn mode, but I'm sure that penalty skill levels will help here. I might suggest them to you. I'm not really sure what (if anything) I'd require you to take as Limitations, but I'd do my best to find at least +1/4 worth unless you had a very solid conception or I was confident you weren't going to be abusive with the power or character. Have fun with it. Oh, and if Mitchel S posts a construct or two, pay attention to it. He's got some really nifty ideas on how to build things. I think I understand what your saying, the flight should be used, say, for cross country transport, but, in a building you would want the running, maybe, with a base non combat movement that is lower than the flights. Right? Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Also, I would glady accept your ruling on the matter were you my GM. Even the dropping like a stone part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... So, if I'm reading this right, On surfaces only is fine, you can not hover at all. No problem there. Would still be able to run up the side of a building. Good. And I would still need to buy running 22'' in order to cover vast distances, or would the flight be able to cover the vast distances also, and be able to do so at such a hgih speed? Or would the flying be a hero id thing and then running be a, I'm out on the street and need to move that little girl out of the way of that bus seems kind of off. Prof I'll run down the full gamut of Flight and various permutations of Speedster Flight as we interpret them at our table: Surface Only (-1/4): You can leave the floor/ground plane (run up building, acorss ceilings), you cannot stop (no hobering), you cannot "jump" distances greater than your Base Jump (you're moving so fast you pop the gap) - no running bonuses allowed to enahance this. For most people this is a couple hexes, say an alley between to towers. No Turn Mode (+1/4): does what it says, removes the Turn Mode on Flight. Combine the two into a "Superspeed" Flight Power and you are paying 2pts/1" as normal, the AP is higher so you're paying more END than just running alone. Now, why would you keep Normal Running at all with a Flight: Surface Only + No Turn Mode? welp, probably because your SFX are "I'm really fast" you probably leave a vapor trail (ala the Flash) as you're obviously using a Power. If you had a Secret ID, or just wanted to go to the mall, you'd probably stop "Flying" and walk normally. For a completely rounded Speedster I would buy Running and Speedster Running (the Flight power above) to the same level so you could move across normal ground at a lower END Cost and get a decent Jump in (instead of concetrating on countering gravity you're concentrating on a long jump). the standard disclaimer: YMMV, Void where prohibited, Your GM has the final say, Not available at all stores, look cool - try not to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Ok, so the next question, (man you guys opened a can of worms, but I'm liking the answers), is, Would 5' of gliding allow for a superspeed long jump? Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... Ok, so the next question, (man you guys opened a can of worms, but I'm liking the answers), is, Would 5' of gliding allow for a superspeed long jump? Prof It would allow for five inches of "jump"/phase until you hit the ground softly. Gliding is toned down version of Flight, basically no acceleration. so, no. Buy the Jumping Power or Running (every 1" above 6" Running adds 1/2" to your H. Jump, so buying Running to just get Jumping is not effecient costing as you're paying double, or is it quadruple can't remember Jump cost, per inch of jump at that point). Edit: "Gliding: Only on a Surface" already has a statement that you may not purchase more Gliding this way than you have Running. This is the 'Ninja Walk On Water' Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... So if I bought +22'' running, say, in a EC speed movement, I would have 14'' of jumping? Prof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Re: Can someone explain.... My math was wrong, 11'' of jumping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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