Hit Locations

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Well' date=' maybe. Update your files and we'll see... [/quote']

I did post some more Adriana Lima today...

[Vanguard00]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I did post some more Adriana Lima today...

Oh, okay. Forgiven. I guess.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Why give zombies half DCV? Wouldn't it be more consistent just to give them a lower Dex and possibly some CSLs for increasing OCV (oh' date=' and Agility SLs if you really think they should be dexterous, but I don't personally think I could justify this).[/quote']

 

Normally I'd agree 100% with this, except in my version of the zombies, they are litterally treated as being out of combat when attacked, even in combat. It's not a hand wave really, just an application of a game mechanic, represented by a Disadvantage. And while I could just buy the zombies with a tiny DEX, it wouldn't halve the Hit Location penalties. I suppose I could have done a tiny DEX plus a Disad just for the HL penalties, but for me it's simpler to roll it all into a single Disad (and besides, the zombies in Dawn of the Dead and quick reflexes, they just didn't bob and weave).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Normally I'd agree 100% with this' date=' except in my version of the zombies, they are litterally treated as being out of combat when attacked, even in combat. It's not a hand wave really, just an application of a game mechanic, represented by a Disadvantage. And while I could just buy the zombies with a tiny DEX, it wouldn't halve the Hit Location penalties. I suppose I could have done a tiny DEX plus a Disad just for the HL penalties, but for me it's simpler to roll it all into a single Disad (and besides, the zombies in Dawn of the Dead and quick reflexes, they just didn't bob and weave).[/quote']

Well, at least you are representing it with a Disadvantage. I don't have such a big problem with that as long as the value is reasonable. Especially if you are creating differences other than just halving DCV.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Well' date=' at [i']least[/i] you are representing it with a Disadvantage. I don't have such a big problem with that as long as the value is reasonable. Especially if you are creating differences other than just halving DCV.

 

Yep, the full "out of combat" package, including taking x2 STUN from all attacks (well, as if zombies take STUN).

 

It's actually a lesser version of another Disad I came up with for NPCs: Non-Combatant (frequently, fully). Well, technically it's not fully in the true sense of the term, but it's certainly worth the points. A character with that Disad has all of the "out of combat" stuff as above (only without taking x2 STUN after the first Segment 12) plus can only take 1/2 phase actions during combat unless only moving.

[Cancer]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I did post some more Adriana Lima today...

 

Now there's a hit location....

[atlascott]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I thought the head shot modifier was terrible--until I ran a zombie game. Zombies have a very low speed. Most PC's have about a 3. Most zombies, about a 1. If a PC is surrounded by zombies, he SHOULD be lunch. That's the danger in the game. But, do not forget that if a PC is fortified, he can set and brace before shooting, and he gets 3 shots for every zombie move. And, if the PC is using a shotgun, the knockdown rules apply--I think you MUST play with rules in a Zombie game which approximate the fact that a zombie with no legs still crawls, but pretty slowly. A grenade knocks them down, but unless it blows them to smithereens, they keep coming. You also need to decide whether you are playing Night of the living dead zombies (head shot), or Return of the Dead zombies (head shots dont do the trick).

 

Another rule I play with in zombie genre is that zombies must first grab, THEN bite on their next attack. Zombies do not have an aversion to exerting 100% of their decaying muscle's momentary muscular contraction ability--they will tear a biceps if they need to in order to hold onto prey. Which is why most folks dont get away once they are grabbed, unless you are Lance Macho.

 

Id suggest All FLesh Must Be Eaten for great genre materials, but the Unisystem is too simplistic--run it using HERO...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Hit Locations

 

This NGD thread might be of serious relevance.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Blasphemy!

 

There is no relevence with the NGD.

[dr. mindslayer]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Is the playing card aware of your intention to put a bullet in it?

 

can you say the same if you turned the card sideways and tried to cut it in half?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Neat thread everybody.

 

I generally think that the locatioon modifiers are pretty well balanced currently, bearing in mind that they are used in grittier games.

 

I REALLY like the idea of using a Disad to limit the defensive abilities of zombies... fits perfectly with my conception of them.

 

 

I heartily reccomend "The Zombie Survival Guide" by Max Brooks to anyone thinking about ruinning a zombie survival horror game... It puts a LOT of thought into the topic, all in "real world concerns" rather than gaming terms.

 

I think in a zombie setting where brain destruction was needed to fully stop a zombie, you'd be seeing chacaters picking up a skill set very similar to the ones mentioned as a package deal above..

If the characters didn't start with the package (beginning of an outbreak, like most Zombie settings), bet on the fact that a LOT of initial experience would be going into PSL's for Targeting.

 

And for my $.02, Find Weakness is almost completely broken if you try and use it in campaigns that also use Hit locations, Targeting and Sectional armor. There is too much overlap. FW was designed, IMO, to simulate those kind of effects in a setting where the optional rules aren't used (like standard Champions). When I allow FW in a heroic setting, I require it to be limited all to heck... my usual default limit for FW is that hitting the "weakness" requires a called shot, with a cumulative -2 OCV for each halving of defences, cumulative with location penalties. So if you make 3 FW rolls and want to put a bullet through the eyehole of a helmet (and get only 1/8th defence) you'd be facing a -14 ocv. I've also been known to apply hit location rolls to FW attempts. When I do it that way, the first FW roll rolls a location to see where you discovered the "weakness". Subsequent attemprts can be made, taking the additional penalty if you are trying to FW on the same location you rolled initally, or allowing the subsequent FW rolls to be taken without penalty but with a new hit location roll each time.

 

When I apply both those rules, I give heroic FW a -1 limitation, and this brings it more into a talent level and less a superpower.

[Kirby]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Yikes! Your Find Weakness seems very punitive. It's bad enough that there's a cumulative -2 penalty that comes standard with the power, but you're adding in additional penalties as well, so that if someone just wants to target the chest, they're now at -5. If someone has FW with legsweep do they get penalized -8 to target the legs when normally they wouldn't? What about throw or takedown? If it works for you and your players, then have at it. Just seems too unfriendly in my opinion. YMMV.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Yikes! Your Find Weakness seems very punitive. It's bad enough that there's a cumulative -2 penalty that comes standard with the power' date=' but you're adding in additional penalties as well, so that if someone just wants to target the chest, they're now at -5. If someone has FW with legsweep do they get penalized -8 to target the legs when normally they wouldn't? What about throw or takedown? If it works for you and your players, then have at it. Just seems too unfriendly in my opinion. YMMV.[/quote']

Yeah, its pretty mean.

Bear in mind that these are ideas I've had for HEROIC level games, and I am still considering limit values (I haven't actually run a game in a while). My object was to shift focus a bit... FW is an odd ability in heroic games to begin with, and in my mind it makes more sense (at least at the heroic level... this has nothing to do with superheroic) that a character who can spot minuite weaknesses in defences and precisely target them SHOULD have tons of OCV or targeting levels... If you can spot the flaw in the shoulder joint of a suit of armor and put a shot right in the proper location to hit it, you should have little trouble targeting anything as mundane as a normal portion of the body.

Heavily Limiting FW reduces the cost of FW to make it more accessable, at the cost of requiring a fairly expert character to actually use the ability.

 

I'd probably consider dropping one ort both limits wioth proper justification (some kinds of spells, targeting computers and the like), tho I'd be most likely to jkeep the second limit (rolling hit location for FW) in any game that uses locations... otherwise a single set of FW rolls drops ALL defences by half, a quarter or more... which seems just... odd to me.

I study my foe, and now I can shoot him with a random hit location roll and no matter where I hit, from head to toe, and with no penalty, I automatically hit a flaw in his armor. Doesn't track for me. YMMV

[Kirby]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Hmm. I can understand your thinking of 'head to toe' doesn't make sense, especially if you define FW as finding a specific vulnerable spot (which I think a lot of people interpret it as). Personally, I see FW differently. To me it goes along more with finding a pattern your opponent is using that leaves him open. Maybe you've discovered that he unknowingly closes his eyes after each energy blast and then can't see what's coming, or he extends himself too much with each punch. Thus, you don't need a hit location as much as placement of your attack. Also, for those that have FW w/punches or a martial arts attack, these (mostly) are restricted to certain areas, so a character with "FW: Single attack: Punch" is not likely to roll a hit location targeting the legs or feet. Also, some maneuvers (such as the previously mentioned head-butt as well as legsweep) target specific areas, but get neither a bonus nor penalty; that's more how I see FW.

 

Out of curiosity, if someone in your campaign did FW with an attack that had Area of Effect, one hex, would you give them an additional minus for trying to hit the hex?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Yeah, its pretty mean.

Bear in mind that these are ideas I've had for HEROIC level games, and I am still considering limit values (I haven't actually run a game in a while). My object was to shift focus a bit... FW is an odd ability in heroic games to begin with, and in my mind it makes more sense (at least at the heroic level... this has nothing to do with superheroic) that a character who can spot minuite weaknesses in defences and precisely target them SHOULD have tons of OCV or targeting levels... If you can spot the flaw in the shoulder joint of a suit of armor and put a shot right in the proper location to hit it, you should have little trouble targeting anything as mundane as a normal portion of the body.

Heavily Limiting FW reduces the cost of FW to make it more accessable, at the cost of requiring a fairly expert character to actually use the ability.

 

I'd probably consider dropping one ort both limits wioth proper justification (some kinds of spells, targeting computers and the like), tho I'd be most likely to jkeep the second limit (rolling hit location for FW) in any game that uses locations... otherwise a single set of FW rolls drops ALL defences by half, a quarter or more... which seems just... odd to me.

I study my foe, and now I can shoot him with a random hit location roll and no matter where I hit, from head to toe, and with no penalty, I automatically hit a flaw in his armor. Doesn't track for me. YMMV

 

 

Ahh... I think this can be summed up by the statement "Find Weakness is not intended for Heroic level games." Maybe? I've certainly never used it that way. FW is a superhero mcguffin... a simplified, generic way to capture a special effect that manifests itself in a lot of different ways... mystically sensing weaknesses, knowing the vulnerable points of anatomy, extreme accuracy, etc. It is not something soley defiend as "pinpoint accuracy on weakpoints" as you described... it is a generic attack variable.

 

For Heroic games... where Hit Locations and the like are in play... they superseed FW and make it unnecessary.

 

I think a lot of these discussions, to repeat things I've said before, are when Hero the Toolkit is used to build a game, but folks are using tools/pieces/mechanics that really don't belong in that game/genre. Thus all the mods/house rules/etc. Just because you have a garage full of tools doesn't mean it is a good idea to take a pick axe to fix a car engine. Nor would you use Find Weakness to create a more gritty, "realistic" heroic level game.