Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

[Mister E]

I am hashing out a Psionic Power System for a "Sword and Planet" genre campaign, and I'm strongly toying with the idea of giving psionic Powers two unusual Limitations so that they function more the way I want them to:

 

• Gnostic (based off a version of the Real Weapon Limitation, where the mystic must maintain an acute sustained state of hightened awareness through meditation, exploration of paradigm, and stuff like that); and...
   
   
  
• EGO Minimum (based off the STR Minimum Table).

 

First Topic: Real Weapon

 

Real Weapon

 

Weapons require constant mainenance, or else they lose their effectiveness. Characters must clean and sharpen their swords and knives, lest they become too dull and rusty to cut through anything harder than butter; and they must clean and oil their firearms, lest they jam or fail to work. Similarly, some weapons just can't damage some things (or only damage with difficulty) - for example, it's not normally possible to hack through a brick wall with a knife.

 

The Limitation "Real Weapon" (-1/4) reflects these sometimes unpleasant realities. Characters must devote time to maintaining weapons with this Limitation, or else begin to suffer penalties to OCV and DCV, and perhaps increased risk of having them break or jam. The exact results are up to the GM's fiendish imagination. Furthermore, GMs should limit the nature and type of objects they can damage. If appropriate.

 

(Just so it's known, I'm only using the old tiny little FRed book.)

 

Alright. I've highlighted in red the part of the text I want to discuss first. My question is two-fold: 1) Does 5er, or any other book, go into more detail... and 2) How am I supposed to impliment this rule otherwise, seeing as how there doesn't seem to be any presidence for this in the HERO System? Or is there... ?

 

 

Second Topic: STR Minimum

 

For my Campaign, I want mystic psionicists to be required to have phenomenal EGOs (along with training) in order to control the fabric of reality the cosmos is composed of, and bend it to their Will. I'm going to be writing up systemized psychic powers the Players can pick and choose from; and depending on the nature of the Power, I want there to be a Minimum EGO requirement, designed more or less exactly the way STR Minimums are designed for weapons. Example:

 

Zarkon the Sorceror, having delved into the secret mysteries of how his mind relates to the minds of others, possesses

gnosis

(true knowledge) of how to 'trick' people into phantasmic states of reality... [alla Mental Illusions). The actual performing of this trick is uniform for all things and everyone; and only a being like Zarkon, having a singular strength of will, can actually bend the trick into action. A lessor mind would be powerless, even if it possessed knowledge of this trick.

 

(Sorry if I'm being too esoteric. It's hard for me to acurately describe how I envision all of this. I am a hack philosopher, at best.)

 

FRed has a "STR Minimum Table" that looks like this:

 

STR Minimum Table

 

STR Min = 1-5................... -1/4

STR Min = 6-14.................. -1/2

STR Min = 15-17................. -3/4

STR Min = 18 or greater........ -1

 

So, my second real question is this: If I wanted to extend this table to cover Legendary caliber EGOs in the 21+ range, how would I do that? This table isn't very symmetrically graduated.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

 

 

 

~ Mister E

 

Just in case it comes up as important knowledge later on in this Thread, there are a few different House Rules in this game:

 

1) CV and ECV are based on stat divided by 5;

 

2) DEX only costs 2 Character Points per Point; and

 

3) I'm fine with letting psionicists do more active point 'damage' for having EGOs higher than the EGO Minimums of their Psychic Powers.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I'll start off with STR Minimum because I'm about to head to work and the other portion will require both more time and more thought.

 

STR is one of the few stats that can be negative and still work. It represents things like pixies and so on that are very small with little lifting power. But EGO isn't like that. EGO, being a 2 per point characteristic, should be shift on the scale faster than with the 1 per point STR. This is my recommendation.

 

EGO Minimum 1-7: -1/4 Lower than 8 EGO is going to be rare but will happen.

EGO Minimum 8-12: -1/2 Your average Joe.

EGO Minimum 13-15: -3/4

EGO Minimum 16-18: -1

EGO Minimum 19-21: -1 1/4

EGO Minimum 21 or higher: -1 1/2

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

SS is on the right track, I would think----

 

if you specifically want the psionic powers to require high egos, then start the "ego chart" at a higher level-- 7, 9, 15, 168 -- whatever. Put your -1/4 at that point.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Real Weapon IS an interesting challange. Mostly because I don't know what kind of weapons you would be using that are EGO based.

 

Intelligent Weapons comes to mind. For that, I would believe that lack of care for the weapon will result in activation rolls, penalties to damage, and slower reactions from the weapons (DEX / OCV penalties in combat).

 

Treating a weapon could involve meditating with the weapon, concentrating mental energies on the weapon to recharge it, or simply communicating with the weapon should it be intelligent.

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

It's like you are reading my mind...

 

 

 

 

 

Let that sink in. Wait for it... GO!

 

Okay. Yeah, I wasn't thinking about it when I wrote this Thread, but I have also been hammering out the details of a crystaline form of technology that was psionic-based. I have this vision of a shirtless psi-warrior doing battle with a crystal sword in his fist. Huh... weird.

 

 

• activation rolls
   
   
  
• penalties to damage
   
   
  
• slower reactions from the weapons (DEX / OCV penalties in combat)
  

 

and

 

• meditating with the weapon
   
   
  
• concentrating mental energies on the weapon to recharge it
   
   
  
• communicating with the weapon should it be intelligent
  

 

This is all good. Thanks. Repped.

 

Okay... so to compare to the maintenance other real world weapons need, what kind of time frames are we talking about... daily?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I'd say spend about 5 to 10 minutes a day or otherwise you need to spend a good two hour meditation once a week. After a week the problems should kick in.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

STR/EGO minimum

 

Have I go this right: all players are expected to have high EGOs, and access to powerful effects like Mental Illusions because of it, and you want to make the powers cheaper as a result?

 

What level of power are you using (character points) and do NCMs apply? That 'phenomenal' bit on the EGOs has me worried What level of EGOs do you anticipate in the game?

 

Real weapon

 

I think this is more a matter of role playing than hard and fast rules, but it is up to you: for instance, if a character has a real weapon gun, and has a fight where they are rolling round in the surf on the beach, if they use therir gun (which got wet and sandy) without cleaning it I might give it an activation (jam) roll. Mmmmmm jam rolls......

 

Similarly with your psionic weapons, if a character has some sort of jarring emotional crisis I might expect them to spend a few minutes harmonising with their MindGun, or the next time they use it they might get side effects (feedback).

 

Obviously you COULD define specific things that need to be done, but that is not really the 'real weapon' limitation, but a more generic 'limited' limitation.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I like your idea of Gnostic Mysticism where the mystic must maintain a specific lifestyle in order to keep their Mental Powers at 100% efficiency. I'd say this should work pretty much just like Real Weapon as you suggested and impose ECV penalties and reduce the Active Points of their powers unless the character maintains the proper rituals in order to keep their mystic perceptions sharp. That should be at least a -1/4 limitation.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Same here, the Gnostic idea is pretty cool. Especially when one considers how expensive it is for a Psionicist to buy non-mental powers as mental powers.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

STR/EGO minimum

 

Have I go this right: all players are expected to have high EGOs, and access to powerful effects like Mental Illusions because of it, and you want to make the powers cheaper as a result?

 

Sean, I'd rep you if I could!

 

Thank you for making this point. This is the very logic that led me years ago to make STR Min a -0 Limitation. Stat minimums do _not_, in any way shape or form, limit the power or the focus; they limit the ability of a character to use it, period.

 

Not having sufficient stats to use an item is a limitation for the _character_, and he has 'received' his disad points in the value of the points he did not spend to get a sufficiently high enough characteristic to take advantage of the weapon.

 

On a related topic, I have issues with builds that take "real weapon" and follow it up with an itemized listing of "limitations" that reasonably should already be included in the "real weapon" concept.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

The reason STR Min works on items and weapons is a Heroic Level concept where said weapons move around from person to person (or can) and are all based on a template construct. It works for Equipment, which is free (or costs Money, but not Points).

 

If you're Psionic Weapons are interchangeable and are Equipment like Metal Weapons then a EGO Min could be perfectly acceptable.

 

And I do believe it's a Limitation because it forces the allocation of points into certain areas. And in both cases an appropriate Drain or Transfer can remove the threat.

 

The Limitation of Real Weapon (Mental or Otherwise) comes in when a Villain removes there required stat.

 

That and I think different scale can be applied to different games, Heroic works well with the 10-20 scale, Superheroic should step up to a 10-30 scale.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

And I do believe it's a Limitation because it forces the allocation of points into certain areas. And in both cases an appropriate Drain or Transfer can remove the threat.

I am not arguing for the removal of the concept or shouting it down as totally illegitimate; I even offered some thoughts on the solicited construct.

 

But even in your Drain or Transfer example, the power itself is in no way limited; the character has become limited to a point where he can no longer use the power. Were he able to do so, he would have full access to the complete power. The power itself remains unchanged and readily available to any character who can wield it.

 

For this reason, _I_ do not allow it at more than -0 without some really inventive reasoning. But I am not dismissing it or calling for anyone else to stop using it.

 

For me, it falls on the _edge_ not in, just in the edge, of cheese.

 

The Limitation of Real Weapon (Mental or Otherwise) comes in when a Villain removes there required stat.

How is this different from the built-in characteristic minimum? Or having a focus stripped?

 

Unlike Char. Min, I have almost no issues with Real Weapon. My issue is taking "Real Weapon" and then taking all aspects of Real Weapon as separate disadvantages on top of it. Reasonably, I find -1/4 to be far too low for Real Weapon, as it includes OAF be definition, and several others by concept-- can't spread, can't bounce, can't 'pull' damage, can't push, requires maintenance, etc, etc, etc----

 

Yes, we can back up to find real weapons that can do this or that individually, but there are certain things that seem core to Real Weapon. I get really tired of seeing published characters taking RW _and_ it's elements.

 

Call it a -1 base value limitation, and feature a chart of value modifiers. Be done with it.

 

It's just more tidy.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I am not arguing for the removal of the concept or shouting it down as totally illegitimate; I even offered some thoughts on the solicited construct.

 

But even in your Drain or Transfer example, the power itself is in no way limited; the character has become limited to a point where he can no longer use the power. Were he able to do so, he would have full access to the complete power. The power itself remains unchanged and readily available to any character who can wield it.

If the power cannot be used how is it not limited?

 

 

As for Real Weapon, it's a Limitation that most of the time requires itself to be used in Combination with other Limitations, it's almost a part of Focus, as you mentioned - you create the level of Focus you want, thus taking that Lim, and add an additional -1/4 to show the Focus must be maintained with another skill or something else.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

If the power cannot be used how is it not limited?

 

a car that is turned off is not broken. When it's turned on, it'll still give you that hundred mile and hour rush your looking for.

 

beyond that, there is a deep falacy in your supposition:

 

The power _can_ be used. It can't be used _by you._ That's hardly a shortcomming in the power itself.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

a car that is turned off is not broken. When it's turned on, it'll still give you that hundred mile and hour rush your looking for.

 

beyond that, there is a deep falacy in your supposition:

 

The power _can_ be used. It can't be used _by you._ That's hardly a shortcomming in the power itself.

Unless the Power in question was something you paid for.

 

I suppose it's because I view Limitations on Powers anything that can restrict their full use, by anyone. It IS limited, of course how much varies from game to game.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

STR minimum:

 

All 'real weapons' have a strength minimum (at least as built in the book). This means that you can make a weapon cheaper by upping the strength minimum. If the weapon is 'equipment' then this doesn't make a lot of difference - the STR min is there mainly for flavour, if you buy the weapon then it makes quite a lot of difference.

 

Now, looking at the STR min table, anything at or over 18 STR required nets a -1 limitation, which means (for example) a 1d6 HKA with a 18 STR min costs 7 points, and with a 5 STR min costs 12.

 

OK, a 5 point difference. If you are buying weapns like this then 5 point si probably quite significant. It is a melee combat level, for instance.

 

We can assume, quite safely, that if characters are building their own weapons they are only going to pick a strength minimum that they can actually use, so, if your character has 18+ strength, you might as well carry a 18 STR min weapon.

 

You are already getting a great deal on the cost of strength (or Ego if you use that): it leaves a slightly bad taste that buying lots of it enables you to get your weapons cheaper too. Just one more unnecessary reason to buy lots of strength. Should we have a DEX minimum too, and maybe an INT minimum, so you don't grab the wrong end?

 

What is the downside of strength minimum? It is ONLY going to be a problem if you have your strength drained.

 

How often do you have your strength drained? Well, if it is half the time, then -1 seems like a perfectly dandy limitation, but I strongly suspect it is going to be a lot less. Depends on your game, and also depends on whether you are using NCM: if you are then STR is unlikely to go much above 20, so ANY drain will prevent the weapon being used. if you routinely have STR of 40, then you are going to have to be hit a number of times before you can't lift the sword. If power defence is common in the game world, the situation gets even more artificial, and let's face it - if drain is common then the defence to it will be too.

 

Personally I'm with Duke: the STR minimum doesn't make a lot of sense as a limitation. I'd be fine having it as a part of 'real weapon' with STR min being calculated as 'active points/3' or whatever, but it does seem pretty artificial in most cases. I'd probably up the value of real weapon to -1/2 to reflect the inclusion of STR minima.

 

OTOH that's just my opinion: I won't be coming round and crayoning rule changes in your books. Probably.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

The OTHER thing about STR min, which may or may not apply to Ego based weapons, depending on how you did it, is that it limits the strength that you can use to add damage.

 

If your psionic attacks have, in effect added damage from high EGo, then Ego minimum is more justifyable, but I still think the lims are too generous.

 

Take an example using 'real weapons':

 

Short sword (STR min 10) real cost 8 1d6 HKA

Broad sword (str min 12) real cost 11 1d6+1HKA

 

Now the short sword, if you have 23 strength, can be made to do 2d6 damage. You only need 21 strength to make the broadsword do 2d6 damage. For the same investment in points, the bigger weapon is clearly the better bet. At the other end of the scale though you need a 13 strength to do the same damage as a broad sword using a short sword. Again the bigger weapon is cheaper in points.

 

Now you can argue forcefully that is realistic: if you are strong you are better off wielding a larger weapon. The thing is though, that Hero is a points based character building system SO, subject to whatever integrity you might have retained, you can build pretty much what you like, so it is not as if you are stuck with a low strength and have no real choice about which weapons you can use: it is all within your domain. It is because, to a large extent, you DO have such control, that the str min rules make so little sense to me.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I also think there is a break in what the purpose of EGO is, metagame-wise. STR Min is okay because STR is a purely effect stat. It doesn't make things easier to hit, or make you harder to hit. EGO is more like DEX in that it determines offense & defense. If you tie a power limitation to such a stat you get in a "the better you are the better you are" scenario.

 

I would suggest using PRE instead, but then only using such a limitation for foci and not powers. So you if have a MindGun that requries 18 PRE, that's a -1 limitation, assuming you are in a Heroic game. You still have to have a high EGO to be effective with it.

 

If you want to base damage off of PRE, add a +1/2 ad to EGO attack or whatever power. Then limit your ability to increase the damage using the normal doubling rule. This would be like buying HKA and adding Ranged to it, which would effectively allow STR to add to the damage. For a personal power that seems cheeky, but for an item I thing that would be fine.

 

I am not a fan of the existing STR min lim, nor do I feel it is appropriate when building anything other than foci in a heroic game.

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

 

STR/EGO minimum

 

Have I go this right: all players are expected to have high EGOs, and access to powerful effects like Mental Illusions because of it, and you want to make the powers cheaper as a result?

 

What level of power are you using (character points) and do NCMs apply? That 'phenomenal' bit on the EGOs has me worried What level of EGOs do you anticipate in the game?

 

The only characters that I expect to have truly high EGOs (in the 21+ range) are going to be the psionicists (characters filling the roles of wizards, priests, druids, warlocks, and such, in normal fantasy genre settings). One PC in my game is going to be an off-worlder with no starting psychic powers. This particular Player tends to give his Characters high EGO and PRE stats. For non-hardcore-psionicists, I’d peg their EGOs around 15 on average, with a Mental Defense of 6 (EGO/2.5). For hardcore-psionicists, probably at least an average of 25, with a Mental Defense of 15 (EGO/1.66). Yes, I’d like the possession of high EGO stats to be a requirement for specific Psionic Powers. Yes, I was thinking this could make Powers cheaper. I’m worried about how cheesy this is… I don’t want it to be cheesy. My knowledge of the game system is quite a bit more vast than most of my Players, and I don’t want to start a “Cheesy Precedent” for them.

 

Setting the active point limit of Powers is tricky. So far I haven’t really set a limit, but If I were required to, I’d set it at 60. I don’t want the game to be too lethal, but I do want it to be serious.

 

Yes, I’m going to use NCM, set at 20. Physical stats will have a human maximum level of 30…Non-physical stats will be able to go up to 50, with 30+ being considered “super-human,” but achievable. (Initially, the 28+ range was where I wanted the EGOs to be for Psionicists, and I might still go back to that idea before the game starts).

 

Starting number of Character Points is going to be set at 250 (125 base+125 disad).

 

 

 

 

The reason STR Min works on items and weapons is a Heroic Level concept where said weapons move around from person to person (or can) and are all based on a template construct. It works for Equipment, which is free (or costs Money, but not Points).

 

If you're Psionic Weapons are interchangeable and are Equipment like Metal Weapons then a EGO Min could be perfectly acceptable.

 

And I do believe it's a Limitation because it forces the allocation of points into certain areas. And in both cases an appropriate Drain or Transfer can remove the threat.

 

Do you think STR Minimums can be applied to Psionic Powers that aren’t tied to items? (This question I ask of everyone, not just ghost-angel.)

 

 

We can assume, quite safely, that if characters are building their own weapons they are only going to pick a strength minimum that they can actually use, so, if your character has 18+ strength, you might as well carry a 18 STR min weapon.

 

Actually, I was going to be mean, and make most of the Powers myself. Anything I don’t think of, that the Players want, I’ll work with them and built, or not if I don’t like the Power.

 

 

What is the downside of strength minimum? It is ONLY going to be a problem if you have your strength drained.

 

How often do you have your strength drained?

 

One downside of STR (or EGO) Minimum is that you can’t use a Power if you don’t have the required level of stat, which costs points; and when those stats start creeping beyond NCM, I’ve noticed it gets a little expensive.

 

I don’t plan on Draining EGO that often. Can anyone think of a good SFX for an EGO Drain I can use?

 

 

The OTHER thing about STR min, which may or may not apply to Ego based weapons, depending on how you did it, is that it limits the strength that you can use to add damage.

 

If your psionic attacks have, in effect added damage from high EGo, then Ego minimum is more justifyable, but I still think the lims are too generous.

 

Yes, most of the psionic Powers I want to build will get added damage (effect) from having an EGO that accedes the Minimum. A Power that doesn’t allow this will have the “STR Min Cannot Add/Subtract Damage(Effect)” -1/2 Limitation, making it even cheaper.

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

 

Real weapon

 

I think this is more a matter of role playing than hard and fast rules, but it is up to you: for instance, if a character has a real weapon gun, and has a fight where they are rolling round in the surf on the beach, if they use therir gun (which got wet and sandy) without cleaning it I might give it an activation (jam) roll. Mmmmmm jam rolls......

 

Similarly with your psionic weapons, if a character has some sort of jarring emotional crisis I might expect them to spend a few minutes harmonising with their MindGun, or the next time they use it they might get side effects (feedback).

 

Obviously you COULD define specific things that need to be done, but that is not really the 'real weapon' limitation, but a more generic 'limited' limitation.

 

This is great. I’m going to use this:

 

• Jarring Emotional Crisis
   
   
  
• Harmonization
   
   
  
• Feedback
  

 

 

I like your idea of Gnostic Mysticism where the mystic must maintain a specific lifestyle in order to keep their Mental Powers at 100% efficiency. I'd say this should work pretty much just like Real Weapon as you suggested and impose ECV penalties and reduce the Active Points of their powers unless the character maintains the proper rituals in order to keep their mystic perceptions sharp. That should be at least a -1/4 limitation.

 

Thanks. =)

 

• ECV penalties
   
   
  
• Active Point reduction
   
   
  
• Rituals to sharpen mystic perceptions
  

 

 

Same here, the Gnostic idea is pretty cool. Especially when one considers how expensive it is for a Psionicist to buy non-mental powers as mental powers.

One of my primary goals, was to cheapen the costs of the Powers, without resorting to the “1/3 Cost†thing Fantasy HERO does. Plus, I just liked the idea, and it is helping me cement the concept of how psionic powers work in my mind, which helps me tool-kit the campaign.

 

 

On a related topic, I have issues with builds that take "real weapon" and follow it up with an itemized listing of "limitations" that reasonably should already be included in the "real weapon" concept.

 

In a lot of ways, “Real Weapon†is just a way of saying “SFX Limitations.â€

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

 

I also think there is a break in what the purpose of EGO is, metagame-wise. STR Min is okay because STR is a purely effect stat. It doesn't make things easier to hit, or make you harder to hit. EGO is more like DEX in that it determines offense & defense. If you tie a power limitation to such a stat you get in a "the better you are the better you are" scenario.

 

I would suggest using PRE instead, but then only using such a limitation for foci and not powers. So you if have a MindGun that requries 18 PRE, that's a -1 limitation, assuming you are in a Heroic game. You still have to have a high EGO to be effective with it.

 

If you want to base damage off of PRE, add a +1/2 ad to EGO attack or whatever power. Then limit your ability to increase the damage using the normal doubling rule. This would be like buying HKA and adding Ranged to it, which would effectively allow STR to add to the damage. For a personal power that seems cheeky, but for an item I thing that would be fine.

 

I am not a fan of the existing STR min lim, nor do I feel it is appropriate when building anything other than foci in a heroic game.

 

I’m glad you brought this up. They already use EGO for ECV, EDCV, and Mental Defense. Why not EGO Damage Classes? I can see how PRE would seem attractive, because of Presence Attacks, but I’m not at this time ready to go that route. Mostly, this is because of the fact that I see bending reality by the force of your Will to be an act of EGO.

 

However, when it comes to mind control, and asserting your dominance over others… PRE starts to become much sexier.

 

To further complicate matters, Gnosis, in my mind, should very much be dependent on INT. Only a mind that is capable of understanding complicated abstract concepts should be able to wield psionic powers.

 

I have not yet been able to resolve these matters within the system. Right now, I’m just using EGO for everything.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Do you think STR Minimums can be applied to Psionic Powers that aren’t tied to items? (This question I ask of everyone' date=' not just ghost-angel.)[/quote']

Yes, but I would suggest setting up a Progression for this, based on AP, Power Type or some such thing. That way you can see some kind of stepping of power in Psionics: Ego Blast is a basic power, Telepathy is more focused, etc.. Thus requireing higher EGO Scores.

 

Or anyone can do any type of Psionic Power, but how much power they can get is limited by their EGO Score, 60AP Powers all have a "Must have EGO 18+"; 75AP Powers are EGO 25+; etc...

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

My only concern is that would be like saying you are going to use DEX for OCV/DCV, Damage, and Physical Defense. That just seems a bit gratuitous. There's no division there - who cares what your other stats are, just buy up DEX. That seems to lack flavor.

 

I really like the gnostic mysticism idea, but with all of the tweaks to the game it just seems like you are trying to change too much for very little net effect while creating a lot of noise.

 

Why EGO/2.5 for MD?

Why EGO/5 for ECV?

 

If advanced powers require high EGO to have access to, I think the EGO min can work, but I would look at it a different way: Requires Skill Roll.

 

For -1/2, you are SKILL - 1/10 active points. So, inherently you have a built in limiter. Assume that 11- is acceptable, and that the skill is EGO based, then a 15 EGO would allow 10 active point powers. Each +5 EGO would raise the bar +10 active points. So, if you wanted to do a 60 active point power you are looking at EGO 40 to be successful. Now, that is perhaps a bit extreme, but 5*(EGO-10) active points might work. Perhaps that would be a simpler approach to take:

 

Limited by EGO -1/2; Character can use the power up to an active point level of 5*(EGO-10).

 

Thus a 10 EGO couldn't do anything. 15 would allow for 25 AP, 18 = 40 AP, 20 = 50 AP, 23 = 65 AP, 25 = 75 AP, 30 = 100 AP.

 

So, make it a flat limitation and include the Gnostic Mysticism part too. That seems to me a fair -1/2 lim, is something you can apply to all powers (like the Spell lim), and I think is a good representation of what you are trying to do.

 

As for the whole cost/3 thing... I think that is actually an elegant solution. Considering the canonical options, it is the easiest to implement and allows you to tweak the game to the level you want, allowing for greater levels of power than would normally be allowed in a heroic game, but without resorting to Multipowers which tend to get too cheap. If you stack on too many limitations at the front, players are not encouraged to add interesting limitations because of the inherent diminishing returns. If you already load a power with -1 1/2 or -2, adding another -1/2 just doesn't get you much. But taking a -0 limited power and adding a -1/2 lim with the 1/3 cost then takes a 45 active point power from 15 points down to 10. If that is too much of a reduction, go with a 1/2 cost (which results in 22 points vs. 15 in the above example). If you do that, just make the cost multiplier the whole gnostic mysticism metamechanic. Especially if this is the only way to have such powers, there is nothing wrong with saying that it is an inherent limitation of the power, something that fundamentally makes it accessible to heroic level characters.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I think people are forgetting something very important with STR Minimum. I apologize if someone has already mentioned this.

 

Joe has a 1d6 HKA, STR Minimum 10 Sword. He has a 10 STR so can use the weapon.

 

Joe gives the sword to Steve who has a 15 STR. For Steve, he can use the weapon as a 1d6+1 HKA because his strength is five greater than the STR Minimum. If there was not a STR Minimum, Joe would be doing 2d6 -1 and Steve would be doing 2d6.

 

This is why STR Minimum is a limitation.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I would really suggest reading some Darkover books by Marion Zimmer Bradley. They are really excellent, and could give you some great ideas for the Real Weapon concept (even if your psionics don't look like hers). Great series!