Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Unless the Power in question was something you paid for.

 

I suppose it's because I view Limitations on Powers anything that can restrict their full use, by anyone. It IS limited, of course how much varies from game to game.

 

 

G_A; not ignoring you-- got called out of town. I'll get back to this (if it's still going on) when I get back, if you're still interested, of course.

 

But for now, what Sean said!

 

Plus:

 

As I find it difficult to imagine a character buying a weapon that he himself can't use, the only way I see it happening is though Drain/Supress/ LTE penalites.

 

With that in mind, such a Limitation should apply to every power, as they all work that way: when you can't use it, you can't use it.

 

Okay, bad working, but I'm _Very_ pressed.

 

Later!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

G_A; not ignoring you-- got called out of town. I'll get back to this (if it's still going on) when I get back, if you're still interested, of course.

 

But for now, what Sean said!

 

Plus:

 

As I find it difficult to imagine a character buying a weapon that he himself can't use, the only way I see it happening is though Drain/Supress/ LTE penalites.

 

With that in mind, such a Limitation should apply to every power, as they all work that way: when you can't use it, you can't use it.

 

Okay, bad working, but I'm _Very_ pressed.

 

Later!

Well, as SS pointed out (and 1 other post I thnk) you can't apply the STR used up by the STR Min to the Damage Done - which IS a limitation.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Well' date=' as SS pointed out (and 1 other post I thnk) you can't apply the STR used up by the STR Min to the Damage Done - which IS a limitation.[/quote']

And in a game where psionic weapons are concerned, I don't see a problem with EGO used in substitution of STR and having the same limitations upon them.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

...................I don’t plan on Draining EGO that often. Can anyone think of a good SFX for an EGO Drain I can use?

........................

 

 

You could try knob jokes.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

This may be nothing like what you are after, but can I suggest that you have players buy a certain amount of EGO with a limitation: susceptible to PRE attacks.

 

Basically it would mean that a character has (say) 10 basic EGO and 10 more EGO, kind of defined as 'self belief'. What it would mean is that if someone managed a successful PRE attack against the character, or possibly trigered a psych lim, or did something the character found huiliating or belittling, then the character's self belief would suffer, and he would have less EGO and thus be unable to use some of his weapons, or use them at lower power/penalties.

 

I'd suggest that a basic PRE attack would, in effect, drain a 1/4 of the character's self belief EGO for each +10 (so PRE/EGO+10 would drain 2 points if the character had 10 points of self belief EGO), although you might want to play around with that.

 

I see the effect that, for instance, if they players see a villain as virtually invulnerable they always act at an EGO penalty, so the villain IS invulnerable to them, until they realise he is no better than them, or the see a weakness in him or whatever.

 

Just babbling aloud, but it is an idea....

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

A good SFX for Drain EGO would be a Psionicist breaking down someone's mental resolve and barriers by overwhelming the targes psyche with their own raw mental power.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Wanted to tag on, going to try and see if I can use the Gnostic Limitation in a campaign, the idea is a Psionic whose powers are based both on mentel fortitude (EGO) and physical fortitude (CON) .. if they don't maintain their mind through meditation and exercise daily they start to either lose control of their powers or their powers lose strength.

 

Another thing I'm toying with (as a concept, not anything actually written down) is that their highest Active Point powers cannot exceed EGO+CON reflecting the strength of will thatt heir mind and body can bring to bear psionically (is that a word? is now!).

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Unless the Power in question was something you paid for.

 

I suppose it's because I view Limitations on Powers anything that can restrict their full use, by anyone. It IS limited, of course how much varies from game to game.

 

Ah!

 

Finally found it!

 

Sorry folks; been out of town.

 

At any rate, forgive the necromancy

 

While I appreciate everything that everyone here is saying in defense of STR Min, I still don't buy it.

 

Again, not pushing for anyone else to ditch it--- it's just one of the differences between groups, I suppose.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Ah!

 

Finally found it!

 

Sorry folks; been out of town.

 

At any rate, forgive the necromancy

 

While I appreciate everything that everyone here is saying in defense of STR Min, I still don't buy it.

 

Again, not pushing for anyone else to ditch it--- it's just one of the differences between groups, I suppose.

I will have to say that STR Min is certainly meaningless in a Superheroic Campaign where a character has to buy all their stuff.

 

In a heroic Campaign a STR Min is restrictive in not only how much DMG a character can do but it's a restriction on what equipment they can use. Of course in a Heroic Campaign it could be argued that all Advantages & Limitations on a power are effectively +-0 since the Players don't pay points for them.

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

Ah!

 

Finally found it!

 

Sorry folks; been out of town.

 

At any rate, forgive the necromancy

 

While I appreciate everything that everyone here is saying in defense of STR Min, I still don't buy it.

 

Again, not pushing for anyone else to ditch it--- it's just one of the differences between groups, I suppose.

I can see why.

 

Regardless, I'm going to give it a try, and see how it flies. I've passes the idea through a couple of my Players, and they like it.

 

Basically, how it is going to work, is I'm going to construct all of the basic psionic powers as {Power} modified with {EGO Minimum} and {Gnostic: "Real Weapon"}... and now I've even added a multitasking element that mirrors the number of hands required for weapons, only applied to psionic powers and the mind, in a CPU-type way. I'm still up in the air for the terminology.

 

Ghost-angel has started another Thread concerned with working out Martial Manuevers for psionic powers, and I'm fully going to hammer out a few specific "schools of thought" as Mental Artforms for use with my powers.

 

Still, there are issues. For instance, I want the Characters to be able to buy DC's for the Mental Arts, but I don't think I want them all to jump up in power at the same rate... much to think about, still.

 

 

~ Mister E

[ghost-angel]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I can see why.

 

Regardless, I'm going to give it a try, and see how it flies. I've passes the idea through a couple of my Players, and they like it.

 

Basically, how it is going to work, is I'm going to construct all of the basic psionic powers as {Power} modified with {EGO Minimum} and {Gnostic: "Real Weapon"}... and now I've even added a multitasking element that mirrors the number of hands required for weapons, only applied to psionic powers and the mind, in a CPU-type way. I'm still up in the air for the terminology.

 

Ghost-angel has started another Thread concerned with working out Martial Manuevers for psionic powers, and I'm fully going to hammer out a few specific "schools of thought" as Mental Artforms for use with my powers.

 

Still, there are issues. For instance, I want the Characters to be able to buy DC's for the Mental Arts, but I don't think I want them all to jump up in power at the same rate... much to think about, still.

 

 

~ Mister E

I 've started to do the same thing for Mental Combat, when I get something working I'll post results and we can compare notes.

[SteelDoom]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I like the idea of Psionics having a stat min of some kind.

 

How about having the Real Cost be the stat min. It is easy because you don't have to make any charts and will encourage the players to limit their powers. Also, to make it less dependant on one stat, I do like a previous suggestion of using PRE as the limitter. This means that normal ppl tend to notice powerful Psions because of some other "thing" that they subconsciously pick up. You could even put a limit on PRE bought over 20 so it can't be used in PRE Attacks.

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I like the idea of Psionics having a stat min of some kind.

 

How about having the Real Cost be the stat min. It is easy because you don't have to make any charts and will encourage the players to limit their powers. Also, to make it less dependant on one stat, I do like a previous suggestion of using PRE as the limitter. This means that normal ppl tend to notice powerful Psions because of some other "thing" that they subconsciously pick up. You could even put a limit on PRE bought over 20 so it can't be used in PRE Attacks.

This is not a bad idea... and I am looking at Active Points... but I want more control over what's what.

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I also think there is a break in what the purpose of EGO is, metagame-wise. STR Min is okay because STR is a purely effect stat. It doesn't make things easier to hit, or make you harder to hit. EGO is more like DEX in that it determines offense & defense. If you tie a power limitation to such a stat you get in a "the better you are the better you are" scenario.

 

I would suggest using PRE instead, but then only using such a limitation for foci and not powers. So you if have a MindGun that requries 18 PRE, that's a -1 limitation, assuming you are in a Heroic game. You still have to have a high EGO to be effective with it.

 

I’m glad you brought this up. They already use EGO for ECV, EDCV, and Mental Defense. Why not EGO Damage Classes? I can see how PRE would seem attractive, because of Presence Attacks, but I’m not at this time ready to go that route. Mostly, this is because of the fact that I see bending reality by the force of your Will to be an act of EGO.

 

However, when it comes to mind control, and asserting your dominance over others… PRE starts to become much sexier.

 

My only concern is that would be like saying you are going to use DEX for OCV/DCV' date=' Damage, and Physical Defense. That just seems a bit gratuitous. There's no division there - who cares what your other stats are, just buy up DEX. That seems to lack flavor.[/quote']

 

Also' date=' to make it less dependant on one stat, I do like a previous suggestion of using PRE as the limitter. This means that normal ppl tend to notice powerful Psions because of some other "thing" that they subconsciously pick up. You could even put a limit on PRE bought over 20 so it can't be used in PRE Attacks.[/quote']

 

I've given it some thought, and I am shifting this Limitation to "PRE Minimum."

 

 

• PRE Minimum
  : A psionic version of the STR Minimum Limitation, used for psionic Powers. All rules are otherwise the same. PRE Minimum represents the mystic asserting the force of his personal being over his surrounding reality, bending it to his Will, and dominating weaker minds through raw Presence.

  
  

 

And here is the Gnostic Limitation, collated from all the helpful comments I got on this Thread:

 

• Gnostic
  : A version of the
  Real Weapon
  (-1/4) Limitation, applied to mystical psionic Powers, and used to simulate the need for the mystic to maintain a sustained state of acute heightened awareness through meditation, exploration of paradigm, and rituals to sharpen mystic perceptions. The Character must spend 5 to 10 minutes a day focusing his
  gnosis
  , or otherwise he must spend a good two hours in deep meditation once a week. After a week of negligence/procrastination, the Powers will receive negatives to CV’s, Damage Classes, Active Points, and possibly receive an Activation Roll with failure resulting in a Jam, or feedback in the form of Side Effects. Time spent in an Intense Psychic Environment, or experiencing jarring emotional trauma, will also require the mystic to re-harmonize his
  gnosis
  .
  
  

[Mister E]

Re: Real Weapon and STR Minimum: Applied to Psionic Powers

 

I also think there is a break in what the purpose of EGO is, metagame-wise. STR Min is okay because STR is a purely effect stat. It doesn't make things easier to hit, or make you harder to hit. EGO is more like DEX in that it determines offense & defense. If you tie a power limitation to such a stat you get in a "the better you are the better you are" scenario.

 

I would suggest using PRE instead, but then only using such a limitation for foci and not powers. So you if have a MindGun that requries 18 PRE, that's a -1 limitation, assuming you are in a Heroic game. You still have to have a high EGO to be effective with it.

 

I’m glad you brought this up. They already use EGO for ECV, EDCV, and Mental Defense. Why not EGO Damage Classes? I can see how PRE would seem attractive, because of Presence Attacks, but I’m not at this time ready to go that route. Mostly, this is because of the fact that I see bending reality by the force of your Will to be an act of EGO.

 

However, when it comes to mind control, and asserting your dominance over others… PRE starts to become much sexier.

 

My only concern is that would be like saying you are going to use DEX for OCV/DCV' date=' Damage, and Physical Defense. That just seems a bit gratuitous. There's no division there - who cares what your other stats are, just buy up DEX. That seems to lack flavor.[/quote']

 

Also' date=' to make it less dependant on one stat, I do like a previous suggestion of using PRE as the limitter. This means that normal ppl tend to notice powerful Psions because of some other "thing" that they subconsciously pick up. You could even put a limit on PRE bought over 20 so it can't be used in PRE Attacks.[/quote']

 

I've given it some thought, and I am shifting this Limitation to "PRE Minimum."

 

 

• PRE Minimum
  : A psionic version of the STR Minimum Limitation, used for psionic Powers. All rules are otherwise the same. PRE Minimum represents the mystic asserting the force of his personal being over his surrounding reality, bending it to his Will, and dominating weaker minds through raw Presence.
  
  

 

And here is the Gnostic Limitation, collated from all the helpful comments I got on this Thread:

 

• Gnostic
  : A version of the
  Real Weapon
  (-1/4) Limitation, applied to mystical psionic Powers, and used to simulate the need for the mystic to maintain a sustained state of acute heightened awareness through meditation, exploration of paradigm, and rituals to sharpen mystic perceptions. The Character must spend 5 to 10 minutes a day focusing his
  gnosis
  , or otherwise he must spend a good two hours in deep meditation once a week. After a week of negligence/procrastination, the Powers will receive negatives to CV’s, Damage Classes, Active Points, and possibly receive an Activation Roll with failure resulting in a Jam, or feedback in the form of Side Effects. Time spent in an Intense Psychic Environment, or experiencing jarring emotional trauma, will also require the mystic to re-harmonize his
  gnosis
  .