A question to the physics-minded...

[pinecone]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

If you mean the Shival...I'm not sure thats how it is spelled ...it is a rocket powered super-caitating torpedo...but the US, in panic mode that somebody has a technology they didn't even think off is working on the same tech, and what little I've seen they are also working on , or have developed super cavitating bullets, so a underwater auto-cannon is either possable or in production...I am slightly sure that the 20mm rounds were at least theoreticly capable of trans sonic speeds underwater.

 

I don't see why the principle could not be applied to the atmosphere as well...maybe a small ionizing emitter and a small magnetic bubble and you get hypersonic cannon rounds...???

[Jaxom]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

What if you were to use magnetic acceleration' date=' rather than pressure from expanding gases? Assuming for a moment that the initial acceleration and the projectile flight path could be in vacuum, wouldn't the practical upper limit on velocity be divorced from the ability of the gun barrel material being able to withstand pressure?[/quote']

 

I'm not sure which limit(s) you'd run into next. Presumably you'd still want to rifle the barrel to provide stability to the projectile but if you play the field mechanics just so you could contrive to spin-stabilize the projectile without rifling. That should be enough to eliminate all material issues with the barrel I think... (Save making it structurally sound enough to support the acceleration coils however you chose to set those up.)

 

You'd still have the issue of kick because your momentum vectors have to cancel. Up the speed of the projectile by a factor of 20 means the gun moving backwards 20 times faster also. Depending on whether you think of the kick as the speed or the energy (being technically correct so that presto doesn't have to pick on me) then you get 400 times the energy coming at you in the recoil.

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

I'm not sure which limit(s) you'd run into next. Presumably you'd still want to rifle the barrel to provide stability to the projectile but if you play the field mechanics just so you could contrive to spin-stabilize the projectile without rifling. That should be enough to eliminate all material issues with the barrel I think... (Save making it structurally sound enough to support the acceleration coils however you chose to set those up.)

 

You'd still have the issue of kick because your momentum vectors have to cancel. Up the speed of the projectile by a factor of 20 means the gun moving backwards 20 times faster also. Depending on whether you think of the kick as the speed or the energy (being technically correct so that presto doesn't have to pick on me) then you get 400 times the energy coming at you in the recoil.

 

This is perfect, rather than use the gun on the PC's I'll give it to them to use.

 

20d6 of knockback later...

[Jaxom]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

This is perfect, rather than use the gun on the PC's I'll give it to them to use.

 

20d6 of knockback later...

 

Hrrrmmm... My favorite ditry trick to play on PCs is to give them an anti-matter cannon. Somehow nobody ever bothers to ask what happens when it hits the air at the end of the barrel. If you're really into picking on your PCs, think about that one. Huge EB plus Flash explosion at point-blank.

 

I tend to reserve my favorite tricks for Paranoia-style campaigns though.

[prestidigitator]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Hrrrmmm... My favorite ditry trick to play on PCs is to give them an anti-matter cannon. Somehow nobody ever bothers to ask what happens when it hits the air at the end of the barrel. If you're really into picking on your PCs' date=' think about that one. Huge EB plus Flash explosion at point-blank.[/quote']

Throw in some casual backstory about its being used to drill through asteroids or something (indirect message: it's used in the vacuum of space!), and was then adapted as a weapon by the Filgamort Corporation (unsaid: to defend their lunar colonies against urphite worms on the airless surface of...), and we have a truly evil deathtrap for the players unless they take the initiative in doing some further investigation.

 

I'm not really that mean. Really.

[pinecone]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Reminds me of an Old D&D story I gave the playas a "Anti-matter mace" say the power word and the head converts into anti-matter and obliterates the foe!...But I couldn't keep a straight face... (the villian created them to arm expendable flunkys...)

[Pogo]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Yeah, that's another good option. So far it seems the following all work as reasonable extrapolations of our current understanding and technology:

 

-very high energy lasers (the classics never get old),

-ultra-high speed projectiles that use a plasma tip to create a channel for themselves through the atmosphere, and

-laser-ionised tunnel-guided electrical discharge projectors.

 

I think this is the beginning of some bad times for the PC's

 

This is too exotic, but what the heck.

 

You can trap particles with laser tweezers. You need two beams (or a tight focus) to trap the particle in all three dimensions, but you can easily trap a particle in two dimensions. Now, make this particle reflective and you have a pellet that moves in the laser beam. So, we make a hollow glass pellet with a reflective coating. Yes, it's very small, but we're going to give it a big payload. Now put four charges on the outside of the pellet in a tetrahedral pattern. Put a small amount of identically charged antimatter inside the pellet (you did put the pellet under vacuum first, right?).

 

Hit the target with the laser beam. Release the pellet into the beam. The glass pellet hits, breaks, falls down, goes BOOM! If you want to see where you're targeting, use visible light. If you want invisible power effects, infrared and ultraviolet lasers are also available.

 

Whatever you do, do not drop your ammo

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

This is too exotic, but what the heck.

 

You can trap particles with laser tweezers. You need two beams (or a tight focus) to trap the particle in all three dimensions, but you can easily trap a particle in two dimensions. Now, make this particle reflective and you have a pellet that moves in the laser beam. So, we make a hollow glass pellet with a reflective coating. Yes, it's very small, but we're going to give it a big payload. Now put four charges on the outside of the pellet in a tetrahedral pattern. Put a small amount of identically charged antimatter inside the pellet (you did put the pellet under vacuum first, right?).

 

Hit the target with the laser beam. Release the pellet into the beam. The glass pellet hits, breaks, falls down, goes BOOM! If you want to see where you're targeting, use visible light. If you want invisible power effects, infrared and ultraviolet lasers are also available.

 

Whatever you do, do not drop your ammo

 

That is truly cool

[Mister E]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

I'm still jazzing on how the plasma-spike on a hyper-sonic aerospacecraft looks like something out of Flash Gordon, with the needle in front of the Mongo airships.

[TaxiMan]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Assume a power source that moves with the projectile (I'm not saying how big this thing is!). Assume the ability to generate a sphere of plasma in front of the projectile, so resistance in front is very small. High speeds are possible.

 

Assume the plasma quickly collapses violently, giving up that energy you used to create it.

 

Now: create a plasma sphere ('bubble') in front of you, move into the bubble, and let it collapse behind you so that it ends up pushing you forward. Do this continuously as you move.

 

End result is you gain efficiency by using more of the energy you expend to create the low-friction path. You accelerate during your flight. By controlling where you place the bubble, you can control the direction of the force from its collapse - i.e. you can steer as well as accelerate (or decelerate, but that's too easy).

 

You have a projectile that can launch at 'low' speeds, accelerates and is guidable. It also generates a moving EMP and an 'ion trail' - useful for guiding lightning bolts or for lower-cost follower projectiles (these wouldn't need the guidance controls).

 

If you can make it small and cheap, you've got a winner!

[ghost-angel]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Why not just use a standard rail gun?

[wowie]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

I have kept my campaign to within reasonable extrapolations of modern technology for the most part (it's currently set five years ahead of today), and I have a question about the feasibility of an anti-superhuman weapon I'm thinking about.

 

Basically, the idea is that a powerful laser creates a tunnel of superheated air between the weapon and the target. This tunnel is, for a short time, much less dense than the surrounding atmosphere. Immediately after the laser fires an electromagnetic launcher fires a projectile at very high velocity down the same path, taking advantage of the vastly reduced air friction inside the air-tunnel to prevent the projectile from being significantly slowed or heated to the melting point by friction. The result is that targets can be engaged at long range with projectiles travelling many times faster than should be possible in an atmosphere.

 

Would such a weapon actually be capable of working in that fashion? Would the power requirements render it too impractical to use? Would I be better off just nuking them from orbit?

 

HEROphiles, lend me your opinions.

 

This really sounds so familiar with the boom gun from rifts... you could try looking that up.

[casualplayer]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

This really sounds so familiar with the boom gun from rifts... you could try looking that up.

 

I played a Glitter Boy as a PC in HERO ages ago, a Japanese hero known as Brass Bell. The Boom Gun was useless in melee, but great fun for fighting giant monsters and spaceships. Had all the drawbacks also including me taking equivalent KB unless I took the time to sink my anchors into the ground first and a monstrous hearing Flash all along the projectile path. Good times!

 

This is the hardest I have ever seen anyone work to justify No Range Penalties. Or did you visualize the weapon doing something else, Tinman? Is this supposed to circumvent "pressure-wave sensing" Danger Sense or blow through FF? Is this supposed to be the "shoot the Killer from 2 cities away" gun from Wanted? Is this the "snipe from space" gun from Sol Bianca? It sounds scary-cool, and No, I don't want to be a player in your game. I like breathing.

 

Even just 5 years down the line, I don't think people will be bringing slugthrowers to a superfight. Bullets are primitive and guns have that pesky action-reaction problem to overcome. A projectile with no drag isn't going to do much to a target, except make a diameter sized hole. Fling a charged projectile at the poor bastard and have the accretions do the damage. Put some spin (low, right english) on that baby and have that shred when it encounters spin-neutral mass. Forgive me if my terminology is poor; I had to walk away from Physics or pencil in a couple year window to spend in the Booby Hatch.

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

I played a Glitter Boy as a PC in HERO ages ago, a Japanese hero known as Brass Bell. The Boom Gun was useless in melee, but great fun for fighting giant monsters and spaceships. Had all the drawbacks also including me taking equivalent KB unless I took the time to sink my anchors into the ground first and a monstrous hearing Flash all along the projectile path. Good times!

 

This is the hardest I have ever seen anyone work to justify No Range Penalties. Or did you visualize the weapon doing something else, Tinman? Is this supposed to circumvent "pressure-wave sensing" Danger Sense or blow through FF? Is this supposed to be the "shoot the Killer from 2 cities away" gun from Wanted? Is this the "snipe from space" gun from Sol Bianca? It sounds scary-cool, and No, I don't want to be a player in your game. I like breathing.

 

Even just 5 years down the line, I don't think people will be bringing slugthrowers to a superfight. Bullets are primitive and guns have that pesky action-reaction problem to overcome. A projectile with no drag isn't going to do much to a target, except make a diameter sized hole. Fling a charged projectile at the poor bastard and have the accretions do the damage. Put some spin (low, right english) on that baby and have that shred when it encounters spin-neutral mass. Forgive me if my terminology is poor; I had to walk away from Physics or pencil in a couple year window to spend in the Booby Hatch.

 

Heh, mostly I just want to scare the living cripes out of my PCs by showing them that they aren't quite **** of the walk yet

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

To elaborate, my PC's have been exhibiting more of a "your puny bullets cannot harm us, we are gods among insects" kind of attitude lately.

 

I need to make sure the authorities have a way of making them rethink their dismissive attitudes.

[EverKnight]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

To elaborate, my PC's have been exhibiting more of a "your puny bullets cannot harm us, we are gods among insects" kind of attitude lately.

 

I need to make sure the authorities have a way of making them rethink their dismissive attitudes.

 

Have you thought about using gas attacks on them. Some nasty NND attack that does body with a 1 hex AoE. Use an appropriate toxin to bypass their defenses, i.e. something breathed (defense LS:Self contained breathing or hold breath) or skin contact (defense inside a sealed suit). You end up with something like:

 

19 1d6 RKA, NND (+1), Does BODY (+1), AoE 1 hex (+1/2), OAF (-1), 6 charges (-3/4)

 

Though I guess the authorities may not want to use chemical weapons as this is one of the unacceptable ways of killing people.

[ghost-angel]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

To elaborate, my PC's have been exhibiting more of a "your puny bullets cannot harm us, we are gods among insects" kind of attitude lately.

 

I need to make sure the authorities have a way of making them rethink their dismissive attitudes.

Here's a question, since you're trying to have them realize they aren't the biggest thing out there ... what's their ED like? Generally I notice a lot of PCs forget to build that up. If so hose 'em with electricity.

[casualplayer]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Heh' date=' mostly I just want to scare the living cripes out of my PCs by showing them that they aren't quite **** of the walk yet [/quote']

 

Well, attakid. You scared me and I'm just a spectator.

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Well' date=' attakid. You scared me and I'm just a spectator.[/quote']

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Here's a question' date=' since you're trying to have them realize they aren't the biggest thing out there ... what's their ED like? Generally I notice a lot of PCs forget to build that up. If so hose 'em with electricity.[/quote']

 

Generally they keep their PD and ED roughly comparable. Really it's just a case of needing a SFX for a large AP or Penetrating Killing Attack. Something will 2x Pen and enough dice to make it sting will wake them up all right.

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Have you thought about using gas attacks on them. Some nasty NND attack that does body with a 1 hex AoE. Use an appropriate toxin to bypass their defenses, i.e. something breathed (defense LS:Self contained breathing or hold breath) or skin contact (defense inside a sealed suit). You end up with something like:

 

19 1d6 RKA, NND (+1), Does BODY (+1), AoE 1 hex (+1/2), OAF (-1), 6 charges (-3/4)

 

Though I guess the authorities may not want to use chemical weapons as this is one of the unacceptable ways of killing people.

 

This would work on some of them, but not others. It's a good idea, I just want something that each one of them can pull a second take at.

[ghost-angel]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Generally they keep their PD and ED roughly comparable. Really it's just a case of needing a SFX for a large AP or Penetrating Killing Attack. Something will 2x Pen and enough dice to make it sting will wake them up all right.

Why not just use a standard Rail Gun firing a needle. They exist already and a little bit of Rubber Science can give you a shoulder mounted, or rifle version to throw at them.

[tinman]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

Why not just use a standard Rail Gun firing a needle. They exist already and a little bit of Rubber Science can give you a shoulder mounted' date=' or rifle version to throw at them.[/quote']

 

I'll probably use this or a variant, along with high-energy lasers to make them suffer...er...entertain them

[TheRavenIs]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

You could use a mirco-partical weapon. Rubber all the way-Science, but to the weapon. Use a small iron pellet, then make it collapse via gravity compression, then use a magnetic pluse to move the now very tiny metal pelet at who ever. Well when the pellet hits, the hyper-density impact is what carries the punch.

 

Gravity-Mag Rifile Mk 1

 

Energy Blast 4d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Armor Piercing (x2; +1) (70 Active Points); OIF Durable Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -3/4), Linked (Energy Blast; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), 2 clips of 8 Charges (-1/4) vs ED, 25 pt cost

 

Energy Blast 4d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Armor Piercing (x2; +1) (70 Active Points); OIF Durable Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -3/4), Linked (Energy Blast; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), 2 clips of 8 Charges (-1/4) vs PD, 25 pt cost

 

Gravity-Mag Rifile Mk 2

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Armor Piercing (x2; +1) (105 Active Points); OIF Durable Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -3/4), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), 2 clips of 8 Charges (-1/4) vs ED, 38 pt cost

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Armor Piercing (x2; +1) (105 Active Points); OIF Durable Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; -3/4), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), 2 clips of 8 Charges (-1/4) vs PD, 38 pt cost

[McCoy]

Re: A question to the physics-minded...

 

1d6 RKA, double penetraiting.

 

I'd go with a bullet, 9mm or whatever the standard issue police sidearm is in your campagine city. Teflon coated (first layer of penetration) sabot rounds (I think that's the term I want). Copper-jacketed lead rounds containing an explosive charge that will explode on impact, driving small needle of hard yet dense metal forward (second layer of penetration).

 

This is going to draw blood on any character without double-hardened PD, teach them that agents are not just an annoyance, yet is not a character killer.