From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

[AnotherSkip]

How about PSL's vs Lack of Skill penalties rather than buying a whole ton of skills?

After all Batman occasionally defuses nukes and could probably cook a nine course dinner if he had to(without his staff) . This could be take waaaaay to far of course but if you attached it to INT based skills then any brainy Skills would be at your INt Based roll whether or not you had the skill. This would shorten some Character lists and make some of the more fantastic (EG Batman-esque) characters much more affordable while still being true to the comics.

 

Of course some wouldn't apply but overall a skill based character would be cheaper.

 

So what do you guys think?

[Edsel]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

Technically skill levels, even PSLs, can't be used with a skill that you don't have. If I recall correctly you are not allowed to use levels with a skill in which you only have a familiarity (8-). So yeah, this is a little cheezy.

 

One of my favorites is a 3 point VPP w/ cosmic control (+2). Pay 6 points and have any 3-point skill, one at a time, per phase.

[ghost-angel]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

One of my favorites is a 3 point VPP w/ cosmic control (+2). Pay 6 points and have any 3-point skill' date=' one at a time, per phase. [/quote']

"Get my gun ma, I found me a munchkin!"

[massey]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

This is like the Batman writeup I saw that had KS: Stuff on a 30 or less.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

This is like the Batman writeup I saw that had KS: Stuff on a 30 or less.

Actually, I think that general concept is a reasonable approach. In other words, you would give Batman the Skills he obviously has as "real" Skills because he uses them all the time (Criminology, Combat Driving, Deduction, etc.).

 

But then to cover the fact that he seems to be generally knowledgeable about almost everything, you buy him a single uber-Knowledge Skill (I personally like to call it "Knowledge!") with a very high roll. The roll is high because the Skill is very general... so using it to know specific facts would almost always have penalties. At its most cinematic, you might buy it as ridiculously high as 25- or something, which would allow him to make even Extraordinary Skill Rolls with it about 95% of the time. At that level, Batman might be able to use his very general Knowledge! roll to know even a very specific fact (such as the mating habits of Peruvian church mice). Obviously, you can expand the same concept with uber-Background Skills such as Science! for Science Skills, and Do Stuff! for Professional Skills.

 

Another approach is to do a different kind of spin, using Universal Translator as a model. In a very rough way, Universal Translator could be loosely described as having every Language Skill, on an INT Roll. (I know that isn't exactly how Universal Translator works, but just hang with me for a minute.)

 

Using this pseudo-relationship between Universal Translator and Language Skills as an inspiration, you could allow "Super-Skills" such as Universal Scholar (for non-area Knowledge Skills), Universal Scientist (for Science Skills), Universal Tradesman (for Professional Skills), Universal Traveler (for Area Knowledges), and Universal Linguist (if you want a super-Language Skill that covers Languages in a more "normal" way than the Universal Translator Talent does). In all cases, having the "Universal" version of the Skill type allows the character to make an INT roll to use any skill of that type.

 

So, for example, someone with Universal Scientist would be assumed to have every Science Skill at the INT Roll level. Like Universal Translator, these "Universal" Skills would cost 20 for an INT Roll, +1 for 1 point. (If you think players would abuse this cost structure, you might increase the +1 cost to 2, or even 3, points per +1. Or, to make it even more expensive, maybe start at 20 points for a base 8- roll, 25 points for an 11- roll, and 30 points for an INT Roll.)

 

This type of thing just makes it much easier to build these kinds of ultra-Skilled characters in a reasonable way. You don't have to worry about "forgetting" a Skill they should have, the character sheets don't stretch on into infinity, and (let's face it) there's a practical upper-limit to how valuable Background Skills are. 100 points spent on Sciences, while certainly quite useful, is also certainly not as useful in your average danger-fraught RPG campaign as 100 points worth of stuff spread between background abilities and more "danger-worthy" abilities.

 

If you go this route, it's usually necessary to exercise some GM common sense at times in applying them. For example, even if "Warp Field Theory" is a Science Skill, a character in a 20th century world, who has never been exposed to Warp Field Theory in any way, can't reasonably argue that their Universal Scientist Skill covers Warp Field Theory. It has to be used intelligently, with the assumption that it covers any applicable Skills that the character could reasonably have learned.

 

If desired, you can even extend this concept to things like Universal Contact, for the character who seemingly knows someone almost anywhere...

[BNakagawa]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

I've always disliked universal anything constructs because I like characters that don't step on eachother's feet.

 

Having a character with universal translater devalues the points anyone else spends on specific languages.

 

Having a character with universal knowledge skills devalues the points anyone else puts into specific KSs.

 

The VPP approach is pure cheese.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

Actually, I think that general concept is a reasonable approach. In other words, you would give Batman the Skills he obviously has as "real" Skills because he uses them all the time (Criminology, Combat Driving, Deduction, etc.).

 

But then to cover the fact that he seems to be generally knowledgeable about almost everything, you buy him a single uber-Knowledge Skill (I personally like to call it "Knowledge!") with a very high roll. The roll is high because the Skill is very general... so using it to know specific facts would almost always have penalties. At its most cinematic, you might buy it as ridiculously high as 25- or something, which would allow him to make even Extraordinary Skill Rolls with it about 95% of the time. At that level, Batman might be able to use his very general Knowledge! roll to know even a very specific fact (such as the mating habits of Peruvian church mice). Obviously, you can expand the same concept with uber-Background Skills such as Science! for Science Skills, and Do Stuff! for Professional Skills.

 

Another approach is to do a different kind of spin, using Universal Translator as a model. In a very rough way, Universal Translator could be loosely described as having every Language Skill, on an INT Roll. (I know that isn't exactly how Universal Translator works, but just hang with me for a minute.)

 

Using this pseudo-relationship between Universal Translator and Language Skills as an inspiration, you could allow "Super-Skills" such as Universal Scholar (for non-area Knowledge Skills), Universal Scientist (for Science Skills), Universal Tradesman (for Professional Skills), Universal Traveler (for Area Knowledges), and Universal Linguist (if you want a super-Language Skill that covers Languages in a more "normal" way than the Universal Translator Talent does). In all cases, having the "Universal" version of the Skill type allows the character to make an INT roll to use any skill of that type.

 

So, for example, someone with Universal Scientist would be assumed to have every Science Skill at the INT Roll level. Like Universal Translator, these "Universal" Skills would cost 20 for an INT Roll, +1 for 1 point. (If you think players would abuse this cost structure, you might increase the +1 cost to 2, or even 3, points per +1. Or, to make it even more expensive, maybe start at 20 points for a base 8- roll, 25 points for an 11- roll, and 30 points for an INT Roll.)

 

This type of thing just makes it much easier to build these kinds of ultra-Skilled characters in a reasonable way. You don't have to worry about "forgetting" a Skill they should have, the character sheets don't stretch on into infinity, and (let's face it) there's a practical upper-limit to how valuable Background Skills are. 100 points spent on Sciences, while certainly quite useful, is also certainly not as useful in your average danger-fraught RPG campaign as 100 points worth of stuff spread between background abilities and more "danger-worthy" abilities.

 

If you go this route, it's usually necessary to exercise some GM common sense at times in applying them. For example, even if "Warp Field Theory" is a Science Skill, a character in a 20th century world, who has never been exposed to Warp Field Theory in any way, can't reasonably argue that their Universal Scientist Skill covers Warp Field Theory. It has to be used intelligently, with the assumption that it covers any applicable Skills that the character could reasonably have learned.

 

If desired, you can even extend this concept to things like Universal Contact, for the character who seemingly knows someone almost anywhere...

For these Universal Skills would you permit the Overall Skill Levels to add to the INT rolls? Or would only +1's bought specifically for that Universal Skill be able to add to the INT roll?

 

TB

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

For these Universal Skills would you permit the Overall Skill Levels to add to the INT rolls? Or would only +1's bought specifically for that Universal Skill be able to add to the INT roll?

Personally, I would consider these a special case, almost akin to Talents (like Universal Translator) and would not allow Overall Levels (or Intellect Skill Levels) to apply. But you could do it either way.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

I've always disliked universal anything constructs because I like characters that don't step on eachother's feet.

 

Having a character with universal translater devalues the points anyone else spends on specific languages.

 

Having a character with universal knowledge skills devalues the points anyone else puts into specific KSs.

In a normal campaign, I definitely agree with you. However, there are certainly characters in some, highly cinematic, source material (such as the aforementioned Batman) for whom such constructs might be a useful "shorthand" way of simulating them.

 

To me, the problem isn't with the idea of using Universal Scientist to build a character who seemingly has every Science Skill... it's with allowing such a character in a game where they aren't appropriate.

[Edsel]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

If I recall, long long ago, there was a published version of this concept in the old Adventurer's Club magazine.

 

As far as I remember it you paid 20 points for a base roll of 11- and each additional +1 cost 5 points. There never was a truely Universal Skill, just categories such as the Universal Tradesman, Universal Linguist, Universal Scientist, etc.

 

I am guessing that this is what you are recalling as well?

[Teflon Billy]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

If I recall, long long ago, there was a published version of this concept in the old Adventurer's Club magazine.

 

As far as I remember it you paid 20 points for a base roll of 11- and each additional +1 cost 5 points. There never was a truely Universal Skill, just categories such as the Universal Tradesman, Universal Linguist, Universal Scientist, etc.

 

I am guessing that this is what you are recalling as well?

There was a very good posting on these boards (It was in a thread about making a Time Lord package deal AFAIK) that had write-ups for all of these.

 

I'd lean more towards Mr. Heimforth's choice of having 20 points for a 8- and 30 points for a full INT roll. I'd go with 2points for each +1 to the INT roll (3 points seems a little steap)

 

TB

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

If I recall' date=' long long ago, there was a published version of this concept in the old Adventurer's Club magazine.[/quote']Hmm... I don't think these appeared in an Adventurer's Club article. However, these types of constructs, with similar names and cost structures, have been common "House Rules" in a lot of campaigns for a long time, and I know I've seen such beasties on various web pages, etc.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: From the Guy who came up with Cumulative Luck....

 

Hmm... I don't think these appeared in an Adventurer's Club article. However' date=' these types of constructs, with similar names and cost structures, have been common "House Rules" in a lot of campaigns for a long time, and I know I've seen such beasties on various web pages, etc.[/quote']Here's the thread that I was talking about:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237742&highlight=Time+Lord+universal+scientist#post237742

 

This might be what he's thinking of.

 

TB