Chuckg Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever FYI' date=' a middleweight boxer(IIRC, Spidey weighs about 160) with fast hands throwing a flurry can throw up to 2-3 punches per second.[/quote'] ... standing still. Spidey needed time to jump around in between blows. Also, unless Spidey can *TALK* at superspeed, some of those punches (the ones with dialogue) were *not* going at 2-3 punches a second, seeing as how he was finishing full sentences in between them. And yes, I anticipate cries of 'but chuckg originally said it was a boxing match!!!!' now. Nope. Let's just get that plain. I said it was *like* a boxing in *some* respects... and clearly, unlike in some others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever ... standing still. Spidey needed time to jump around in between blows. Also, unless Spidey can *TALK* at superspeed, some of those punches (the ones with dialogue) were *not* going at 2-3 punches a second, seeing as how he was finishing full sentences in between them. Note for the record that Chuckg loves genre convention when it suits him, such as indestructible clothing, but calls for absolute realism when dealing with soliloquies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever To be fair' date=' ChuckG is saying it DOES, but I am saying that I think it suggests a far greater number than a boxer.[/quote'] I think he wouldn't have come to that conclusion if he wasn't already set to minimize the numbers of blows to try to force a straw man Thor/Spidey equivalency argument on those who disagree with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever ... standing still. Spidey needed time to jump around in between blows. Also, unless Spidey can *TALK* at superspeed, some of those punches (the ones with dialogue) were *not* going at 2-3 punches a second, seeing as how he was finishing full sentences in between them. And yes, I anticipate cries of 'but chuckg originally said it was a boxing match!!!!' now. Nope. Let's just get that plain. I said it was *like* a boxing in *some* respects... and clearly, unlike in some others. Dialogue and time don't mesh well in comics. I thought everyone knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The symbiote costume (Spidey picked it up during "Secret Wars"' date=' later on it left him and merged with Eddie Brock to become Venom) not only gave Spidey a notable power amp, it actually leeched energy away from his opponents sometimes. Any victories Spidey earns with the symbiote costume have to be asterisked in the record books, because Spidey did those while boosted.[/quote'] Interesting. I'd heard of the whole thing very generally, but nothing specific such as this. If it is the symbiiote, would you say that explains it reasonably? My impression is that would sway the whole argument decisively (and of course be an * as you say). PS/EDIT - oh well, appears to be the cloth uniform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Ouch! That was such a low blow, you made my mother you big lizard! Ah-ha, I finally win! I knew you wouldn't defeat me! I'd keep going and going and going! UNTIL I WIN! I AM THE BULLDOG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Just remember who has you huevos in a jar at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Dialogue and time don't mesh well in comics. I thought everyone knew that. I think there's even is or at least was a rule in HERO about soliloquys (sp, I'm tired...) taking longer than actions in representing this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Just remember who has you huevos in a jar at home. What's my wife got to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I think there's even is or at least was a rule in HERO about soliloquys (sp' date=' I'm tired...) taking longer than actions in representing this...[/quote'] Even if we compress time to allow entire sentences to be spoken in one second (one Segment), that still reduces the rate of Spidey's punching to below 2-3 punches a second. Also, I don't remember seeing boxers actually throw 2-3 punches a second while fighting in the ring. They can do it in exhibitions vs. the speed bag, yes, but not in fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever PS/EDIT - oh well' date=' appears to be the cloth uniform[/quote'] The Spidey/Firelord fight, yes. I'm wondering about that one Rhino incident that also had a black costume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever The Spidey/Firelord fight' date=' yes. I'm wondering about that one Rhino incident that also had a black costume.[/quote'] It's ASM 281-282. After the Firelord fight. Cloth costume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suleyman Rashid Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Man' date=' between this and what you wrote in the other thread about my testicles (it's an NGD thing...), I feel like Firelord against Spiderman... beat down, beat down...[/quote'] I feel for you, sir. Went to bed at 5 am, woke up at 7:30 am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Even if we compress time to allow entire sentences to be spoken in one second (one Segment), that still reduces the rate of Spidey's punching to below 2-3 punches a second. Also, I don't remember seeing boxers actually throw 2-3 punches a second while fighting in the ring. They can do it in exhibitions vs. the speed bag, yes, but not in fights. It doesn't work like that. The diaologue doesn't get compressed. It's not any sort of guide to how long things take in any way in a comic book... unless the dialogue specifically is a countdown or something. Dialogue is "color" as much as anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Even if we compress time to allow entire sentences to be spoken in one second (one Segment), that still reduces the rate of Spidey's punching to below 2-3 punches a second. Also, I don't remember seeing boxers actually throw 2-3 punches a second while fighting in the ring. They can do it in exhibitions vs. the speed bag, yes, but not in fights. You haven't seen too many boxing matches then. Jeez, just try it yourself even. Average joe could throw 3 punches in one second. Just stand up, throw 3 hard punches (extending your arms so we throw out short bodyblows), while counting one-thousand-one. It ain't hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever You haven't seen too many boxing matches then. Jeez, just try it yourself even. Average joe could throw 3 punches in one second. Just stand up, throw 3 hard punches (extending your arms so we throw out short bodyblows), while counting one-thousand-one. It ain't hard. While jumping around like Spider-Man was? He isn't staying within arms' reach of Firelord for one continuous second, even, guy was bouncing around like a superball. 3 hard punches per second vs. a stationary target, like a speed bag, easy. 3 hard punches per second in a real street fight -- I don't think so. Toss in Spider-Man style acrobatics and I think even less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever And I think that the fact this has gone on so long and so heatedly does bear out my original assertion' date=' that SM v FL is one of the worst comic book superfights ever[/quote'] A common issue on this thread, I'd say it means the opposite. I see no one jumping to the defense of the "Hulk falls into a hole and is KO'd" storyline, but a significant number who are OK with Spidey vs Firelord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever While jumping around like Spider-Man was? He isn't staying within arms' reach of Firelord for one continuous second, even, guy was bouncing around like a superball. 3 hard punches per second vs. a stationary target, like a speed bag, easy. 3 hard punches per second in a real street fight -- I don't think so. Toss in Spider-Man style acrobatics and I think even less so. Spider-Man style acrobatics by Spider-Man doesn't exactly slow Spider-Man down as much as it would slow down someone else breaking their back trying to perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever You know, The Tick would totally kick Batman's butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Even if we compress time to allow entire sentences to be spoken in one second (one Segment), that still reduces the rate of Spidey's punching to below 2-3 punches a second. Also, I don't remember seeing boxers actually throw 2-3 punches a second while fighting in the ring. They can do it in exhibitions vs. the speed bag, yes, but not in fights. I think you missed the point. The point is the relationship in time between speech and action is tenuous at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I feel for you' date=' sir. Went to bed at 5 am, woke up at 7:30 am.[/quote'] Yeah, thanks, for me I got <2 hours because I get too easily adjusted to a very late schedule when off work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever While jumping around like Spider-Man was? He isn't staying within arms' reach of Firelord for one continuous second, even, guy was bouncing around like a superball. 3 hard punches per second vs. a stationary target, like a speed bag, easy. 3 hard punches per second in a real street fight -- I don't think so. Toss in Spider-Man style acrobatics and I think even less so. Um, please say you're not basing what Spiderman can do off of your physical abiltiies... (the big grin is 'cause I know you're not, it's a joke) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Worst comic book superfight ever You know' date=' The Tick would totally kick Batman's butt.[/quote'] Which means he'd put out Firelord easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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