New Advantage: Stackable

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Interestingly I was thinking about a new way of doing coordinated attacks - basically add the attacks together the way you would strength, so two coordinated 12d6 attacks would be one 13d6 attack, 4 would be 14d6 and so on.

 

It is certainly not such a take down special as the current system, but it is balanced (IMO) and allows you to do more BODY damage. Didn't think it was worth a thread on its own but I thought I might mention it here...

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Interestingly I was thinking about a new way of doing coordinated attacks - basically add the attacks together the way you would strength, so two coordinated 12d6 attacks would be one 13d6 attack, 4 would be 14d6 and so on.

 

It is certainly not such a take down special as the current system, but it is balanced (IMO) and allows you to do more BODY damage. Didn't think it was worth a thread on its own but I thought I might mention it here...

 

Wouldn't that logic say that there would be no point in co-ordinating attacks unless they were equal in power?

 

 

Doc (I don't care if he does hijack my thread!)

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Wouldn't that logic say that there would be no point in co-ordinating attacks unless they were equal in power?

 

 

Doc (I don't care if he does hijack my thread!)

 

 

Pretty much, but them I'm a 'damage is exponential' kinda guy.

[casualplayer]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Now that I think about it, this is kinda like what Morbanes use to do; more Morbanes meant bigger spells. Is that still the case? I haven't picked up the new DEMON stuff.

[BNakagawa]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

As a GM? Well, first I wonder why mr stackable SPD bought 4 SPD as stackable rather than SPD 6 and then whether I allowed him that because he had good SFX for being able to stack with someone else's SPD.

 

My initial thoughts are possibly the spirit transferring from one body to another so that more actions are available to the stacked PC while the other stood effectively lifeless and defenceless.

 

Seems fair to me that two PCs who have paid enough points in SPD to have SPDs 6 and 12 get to take 10 actions between them...

 

Doc

 

PS: this is making me consider whether both the stacker and the recipient should have the advantage on their power. In some cases it doesn't seem that there should - but that should be more expensive for the stacker.

 

Hmm.

 

not my point actually. The point is that there is a big discrepancy between a slow character boosting a fast character's attack power and vice versa.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

not my point actually. The point is that there is a big discrepancy between a slow character boosting a fast character's attack power and vice versa.

 

There would also be a big discrepancy in the points paid by the characters. Surely that goes without saying?

 

The SPD 4 character would be spending 20 points to boost someone else 2 SPD and the SPD 8 character would be spending 40 points to boost someone 4 SPD.

 

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

There would also be a big discrepancy in the points paid by the characters. Surely that goes without saying?

 

The SPD 4 character would be spending 20 points to boost someone else 2 SPD and the SPD 8 character would be spending 40 points to boost someone 4 SPD.

 

I don't think boosting SPD is the point. I think the issue is that boosting a high SPD character's other abilities is more advantageous than boosting a low SPD character's other abilities.

 

Assume a typical attack is 12 DC, and typical SPD is 5. Take two absolutely typical characters, each with 30 points left to spend, and make the following changes:

 

Character A makes his character SPD 2, and uses the 60 points to boost his attack to 16d6 and make it Stackable.

 

Character B uses his leftover 30 points to make his character SPD 8.

 

Character A now uses his Stackable EB to enhance Character B's EB up to 20d6, and Character B can use that attack 8 times a turn.

 

That's a lot more effective than Character B instead putting Stackable on his 12d6 EB, and using it to add 6d6 to Character A, who could do 22d6 twice per turn.

 

IOW, a slow character using Stackable to assist a fast character is vastly more effective than the other way round. I think that's the point BNakagawa is making.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

IOW' date=' a slow character using Stackable to assist a fast character is vastly more effective than the other way round. I think that's the point BNakagawa is making.[/quote']

 

I had to think hard about this! :-)

 

In the event that the SPD 2 character wanted to boost the attack of the SPD 8 character then the SPD 2 character would be able to boost twice per turn (segments 6 and 12). That is when SPD 2 guy can act.

 

SPD 8 guy can act on segments 2,3,5,6,8,9,11,12 and so SPD 2 guy could boost any one of the attacks on 6,8,9 and 11 and also on 12.

 

I think that the misconcpetion is that the boost is constant, like Aid but my idea of the advantage is that it would be like the two characters combining (stacking) their attacks. It is more like a super co-ordination than aiding another's attack.

 

My first answer to BNakagawa may seem to contradict that as the SPD is done over the full turn but I don't see a simple way around that unless you simply allowed one phase at a time to be used to boost the others actions.

 

I also think that for a constant power (like force filed) you would have to boost over phases (so SPD 2 guy would stack his force field for six segments at a time - good for the recipient who gets extra protection for several phases but pretty dangerous for SPD 2 guy who is without his force field for those same six segments).

 

The devil really is in the detail! This is really useful - thanks everyone.

 

 

Doc

[BNakagawa]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

the original description does not indicate that the effect is one shot only.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

the original description does not indicate that the effect is one shot only.

 

I didn't say it wasn't either Poor drafting.

 

I guess I never thought out the details completely. It was so clear in my mind about two characters combining their attacks in a particular phase that it never occurred to me that it could work differently.

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

I don't think boosting SPD is the point. I think the issue is that boosting a high SPD character's other abilities is more advantageous than boosting a low SPD character's other abilities.

 

Assume a typical attack is 12 DC, and typical SPD is 5. Take two absolutely typical characters, each with 30 points left to spend, and make the following changes:

 

Character A makes his character SPD 2, and uses the 60 points to boost his attack to 16d6 and make it Stackable.

 

Character B uses his leftover 30 points to make his character SPD 8.

 

Character A now uses his Stackable EB to enhance Character B's EB up to 20d6, and Character B can use that attack 8 times a turn.

 

That's a lot more effective than Character B instead putting Stackable on his 12d6 EB, and using it to add 6d6 to Character A, who could do 22d6 twice per turn.

 

IOW, a slow character using Stackable to assist a fast character is vastly more effective than the other way round. I think that's the point BNakagawa is making.

 

 

....I appreciate the potential for abuse but can this sort of argument not be applied to adjustment powers: 30 points in succor can boost that EB just as effectively...

[zornwil]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

This seems like a good example of that "adding complexity where it is unneeded" thing. You could easily replicate the "Stackable" effect with Aid or Succor; I'd recommend Succor with Standard Effect for simplicity.

I think it's actually simpler than Aid or such, as it allows you to have an attack and a very simple mechanism to add it to others' without getting into various UBO and Aid controtions. As a house rule, I think it's a neat idea.

[megaplayboy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

can't this be done already, using the Usable By Others advantage? You just make sure everyone has a similar SFX...

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Not really. Usable by others doesn't allow two characters with 8D6 EBs to combine for a 16D6 blast.

[megaplayboy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Not really. Usable by others doesn't allow two characters with 8D6 EBs to combine for a 16D6 blast.

 

from the 5ER rules FAQ:

Q: Could a character receive the same or similar powers from two different characters using Usable By Other? For example, could Character A obtain a Force Field (6 PD/6 ED) from Character B, and another Force Field (6 PD/6 ED) from Character C, so that he could activate both and have, in effect, Force Field (12 PD/12 ED)?

 

 

 

A: There’s nothing in the rules, per se, that prohibits a single character from receiving a similar or identical power from two people using Usable On Others in some form (though in many campaigns the GM will have some concerns, and rightly so).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

from the 5ER rules FAQ:

Q: Could a character receive the same or similar powers from two different characters using Usable By Other? For example, could Character A obtain a Force Field (6 PD/6 ED) from Character B, and another Force Field (6 PD/6 ED) from Character C, so that he could activate both and have, in effect, Force Field (12 PD/12 ED)?

 

 

 

A: There’s nothing in the rules, per se, that prohibits a single character from receiving a similar or identical power from two people using Usable On Others in some form (though in many campaigns the GM will have some concerns, and rightly so).

 

Well. That one slipped past me. You think that if character A had its own 6/6 force field then it would have 18/18?

 

Makes usable by others much more valuable than I imagined.

[megaplayboy]

Re: New Advantage: Stackable

 

Well. That one slipped past me. You think that if character A had its own 6/6 force field then it would have 18/18?

 

Makes usable by others much more valuable than I imagined.

Well, I'd imagine you could define "stackable" as a special variant of UBO, in order to avoid some of that potential for abuse.

 

But if you want the members of Team Thunderbolt to be able to combine their thunderbolt blasts together, 5 members combining to throw a 30d6 mega thunder bolt is pretty frickin' cool.