keithcurtis Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I haven't read anything in the books that were even remotely more than standard stuff people do. Public sex when you are thirteen is standard? Tweaking your sister's nipple to keep her in line is standard? Admittedly, they are things that people do in the real world, but they're hardly standard. Keith "It's just Iron Age as applied to fantasy" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Public sex when you are thirteen is standard? Tweaking your sister's nipple to keep her in line is standard? Admittedly, they are things that people do in the real world, but they're hardly standard. Keith "It's just Iron Age as applied to fantasy" Curtis In a way, he's partially responsible for the Iron Age in comic books too.... The Wild Cards books were largely his idea, and his project (as editor and contributor) and were, IMHO, one of the first really hardcore Iron Age treatments of superheros. That said, I do rather enjoy his writing, even if he occasionally ticks me off. I just hope he manages to finish the series before he dies. I still have my prerelease galley of A Game of Thrones. From 1996. 4 books in a decade isn't bad, but its not what I'd call comfortingly rapid writing, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Yeah' date=' Tyrion! He is by far (IMHO) the best character. Glad to hear he lives to FoC:celebrate[/quote'] Sorry to mislead you. He isn't in this book at all. That's why I added the "probably" qualifier. He'll be in the other half of the book though and I think he'll do fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Not true. I mean' date=' Tyrion is still alive (probably) and he's seen the most action and political intrigue of any of the characters. I just wonder what happened to Rickon, he sorta disappeared with that wildling chick.[/quote'] No, what I meant is that now that when you become attached to a character, that character dies. See, I'm all for killing of the characters for the sake of the story and for the sake of enriching the readers' experience. However, once you start dropping them like flies, then I will not bother to become emmotionally invested in them because "Oh, I know they'll die in a book or two, if not sooner." That DETRACTS from my reading experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] No, what I meant is that now that when you become attached to a character, that character dies. See, I'm all for killing of the characters for the sake of the story and for the sake of enriching the readers' experience. However, once you start dropping them like flies, then I will not bother to become emmotionally invested in them because "Oh, I know they'll die in a book or two, if not sooner." That DETRACTS from my reading experience. I don't think that's true at all. Jon's still alive. Jaime's still alive. I like those characters. They aren't dead. You can still put some emotional investment into it. The fact that they CAN die makes it that much more "sad" when they do. Besides, if none of the Starks had ever died, would you still be rooting for them to make a comeback? Would there be any comeback to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] In a way, he's partially responsible for the Iron Age in comic books too.... The Wild Cards books were largely his idea, and his project (as editor and contributor) and were, IMHO, one of the first really hardcore Iron Age treatments of superheros. This is true, and whereas I have all the Wild Cards books, and enjoyed them several times each, the same approach when applied to epic fantasy left me cold. Keith "Double standard" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] See, beacuse you have begun to experience hope, Arrya will now die. I haven't read Crows yet, but this is the way of Martin. LONG LIVE THE STARKS! TRUE KINGS OF THE NORTH! I mean hope in a good book, I don't mind when the characters dye, and love when they die well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I had forgotten the age thing for the sex scenes. Yeah, that did disturb me at the time too.. It's been a long time between books and I haven't read them for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I don't think that's true at all. Jon's still alive. Jaime's still alive. I like those characters. They aren't dead. You can still put some emotional investment into it. The fact that they CAN die makes it that much more "sad" when they do. Besides, if none of the Starks had ever died, would you still be rooting for them to make a comeback? Would there be any comeback to make? Jamie is a Lannister dog, but then again, he MIGHT just end up redeeming himself. Still, he deserves whatever misery he gets for what he did to the Stark child. Jon is kind of a whiner, but otherwise ok. What about Ned? I loved him! Of course, I guess he had to die because he was too fricking perfect. I would love it if Arrya's sister (Sonya?) died. I haaaaaaate her so. I think that there is such a thing as OVERkilling of characters. But you are right......... the Starks must rise again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] What about Ned? I loved him! It's funny--the first time I read AGoT, Ned Stark was the obvious protagonist--wise, moral, honorable. The second time I read AGoT, knowing what was going to happen, he came off as an inflexible and dogmatic idiot. I would love it if Arrya's sister (Sonya?) died. Sansa has had some significant character development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Man I hated Sansa after the first book. Tyrion is the one true protagonist. My first time through, I thought for sure that Jon Snow was the Hero of the story. That hit me immediately when they found the Dire Wolf pups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Jon is the hero of the story. You're correct. I have to agree, I got tired of Sansa but she's not too bad in Feast for Crows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Sansa is useless except as a weapon against her family, and she has none of the Stark inner steel. I don't think Ned was an idiot, I just think his daughter was. Hey, even the best get unlucky sometimes. I'm not HUGE on the Jon bit. He's nice, but nothing amazing to me. Now Arrya......... OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is going to rock this world. Oh, and the Tulley's must die. ALL of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I thought Arya was a bit lackluster in FFC. Her story was entirely uninteresting (not as boring as Samwell's though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I like the fact that - good, bad, incompetant, noble, traitorous or honourable - genius or moron - everyone can die. There is no higher power determining that certain actions = survivability. Which is a nice change for the thinly veiled morality tales that most fantasy fiction is mass produced as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I thought Arya was a bit lackluster in FFC. Her story was entirely uninteresting (not as boring as Samwell's though). See, I just found it fascinating, I love the religions/cultures that are so different from us, Arya and the Kraken Chapters were very delicious reads for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I thought Arya was a bit lackluster in FFC. Her story was entirely uninteresting (not as boring as Samwell's though). I have to disagree also. I see possible "Empire Strikes Back" type stuff in the future as our wannabe assassin Arya goes off to help her family. I think all of this back story of breaking her down and building her back up will become quite telling in future books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzalot Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I thought Arya was a bit lackluster in FFC. Her story was entirely uninteresting (not as boring as Samwell's though). Leave Samwell alone! And no love for Brienne? She's one of my favorites, along with Tyrion and Arya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I said earlier that Brienne had some good chapters in this book. As for Arya, if she truly goes through with what she's doing, she'd have to renounce all her past. And these people KNOW if she has renounced it or not. But, we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Sam and Arya both had some pretty critical development/clues dropped in their chapters. I want a team of the rottenest goathead barbarians to have about 3 days with Sansa and Cerci.... They both grind on my "you should die a terrible death bone." We need some Bron, Jon, and Tyrion action. I also want to know what was happening with Uncle Kevin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] Uncle Kevin probably just doesn't like Cersei but maybe he does have other motives. I agree, Bron chapters might be cool but I'm not sure he sees enough important stuff to warrant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Spear Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Re: On Fantasy [G.R.R.M.] I am slowly working my way through AFfC and the tedium is killing me. Too many characters, too many chapters with nothing that really happens. Someone needs to choke his editor until he or she remembers everything they ever learned about pacing. The rest of the books I couldn't put down, this one is so slow moving that it has become work to try and get through it. As far as the sex scenes go, he just seems to be throwing them into to break up the monotony in this book. Particularly with Cersi and what's her name. Very contrived and almost like he put it in just because he could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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