Zephrosyne Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Hello, I have a player with the Healing (Resurrection) power. The power doesn't give a limit as to how long before a character can no longer be resurrected. I was thinking as long as the character wasn't dead any longer than 1 hour per die the character has in Healing. Is this reasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection The limitation is completely valid. The real question is, how much of a point break (if any) are you looking to give for such a power limitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephrosyne Posted February 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection Actually, I was thinking no point break at all. First of all, the power is at the gm's discretion and second it is only a 20 point Adder. I figure that is cheap to bring dead people back to life. Do you think that my reasoning if flawed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection Depends entierly on the setting and genre conventions you are goign for. So, what's the setting like? What's the SFX of the power? A D&D style fantasy hero might "require" you to be able to bring people back from dust. Clearly if you can "only" res people that have died within the last hour, that's a much more limited version of the power. By contrast, even an hour might be considered extremely generous in games where such things are supposed to be exceptionally rare. In such a case you could add some randomness to it by making it RSR or Activation roll that is further reduced by the time chart pnelaties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephrosyne Posted February 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection Actually, it is a modern day, superheroic game. It isn't really comic book like in the 4 color sense. It is more like people with powers in the Aberrant sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection Hello' date=' I have a player with the Healing (Resurrection) power. The power doesn't give a limit as to how long before a character can no longer be resurrected. I was thinking as long as the character wasn't dead any longer than 1 hour per die the character has in Healing. Is this reasonable?[/quote'] Sounds reasonable to me. I tend to favor a house rule that states a corpse contunues to lose BODY after he is dead. 1 per 6 hours (4 BODY per day) tends to work well. This prevents a cheap Healing from ressurecting a character that died from minor wounds, but died a week ago, but still allows a larger healing to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabluey Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection My thoughts on how much of a point break to give the limitation limiting the time a corpse can be resurrected depends on how limiting this is vis-a-vis the rest of the campaign. Meaning, if you decide that a corpse can only be raised after 1 day, but others can raise it after one week, then I might reduce the cost of the Resurrection adder. But if everyone suffers the same limitation, then I'd probably just say it's a campaign rule and give no point break for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephrosyne Posted February 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection Thank you all for your imput. It is most appreciated. I really love this game but there is so much information to take in. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Resurrection The way I'm gonna do it in my campaign is it will take the Ritual disadvantage and require four people for an hour to cast it and cost some expensive expendable focus. So, it'll be fairly rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: Resurrection Resurrection is triggered, if it is on the self, so I presume you are talking about resurrecting others? The 1 hour thing is fine. Of course it would then mean that it does not matter how they are killed: burned, stabbed, beheaded, disintegrated, so long as there is something left to target they can be brought back. Just be aware that is potentially powerful, but also has substantial limits, if the resurrector is unaware of the death or otherwise engaged at the time. You are quite right - if that is the required resurrection limiter it is not a limitation per se and so should not get any limitation bonus, the same as vampires don't get a limitation for being permanently killed by a stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: Resurrection Sounds reasonable to me. I tend to favor a house rule that states a corpse contunues to lose BODY after he is dead. 1 per 6 hours (4 BODY per day) tends to work well. This prevents a cheap Healing from ressurecting a character that died from minor wounds, but died a week ago, but still allows a larger healing to manage. Very nice idea. I might change the decomposition rate, making it work like like breakout bonuses: 1 turn -1 BODY, 1 minute -2 BODY, 1 hour -3 BODY and so on, but I really like this as an idea: makes it necessary to buy a chunky healing/res for a lot of jobs. Rep when I can: stop making sense for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Re: Resurrection Yes, in theory you could resurrect a burned beheaded poisoned person under my rules. I think at the very least you'll need to have some remains of the body though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Re: Resurrection Very nice idea. I might change the decomposition rate' date=' making it work like like breakout bonuses: 1 turn -1 BODY, 1 minute -2 BODY, 1 hour -3 BODY and so on, but I really like this as an idea: makes it necessary to buy a chunky healing/res for a lot of jobs.[/quote'] That makes to much sense, matching the BODY loss to the Time Chart. If a low powered healer can get to the dead in less than an hour, he might succeed, but if several hours have passed, no chance. A more powerful healer would be needed, and for him it doesn't matter much if the dead has been dead for a day or a month. Who are you and what have you done with Sean? Rep when I can: stop making sense for a while Hey, I took over a week off the boards, what more do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Re: Resurrection That makes to much sense, matching the BODY loss to the Time Chart. If a low powered healer can get to the dead in less than an hour, he might succeed, but if several hours have passed, no chance. A more powerful healer would be needed, and for him it doesn't matter much if the dead has been dead for a day or a month. Who are you and what have you done with Sean? Hey, I took over a week off the boards, what more do you want? ************NORMAL SERVICE WILL RESUME SHORTLY************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnJack Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection Well, a Transformation of dead person to live person(major transform)(cumulative if you want, etc... is easier, quicker, probably cheaper after some limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection In the ancient Middle East (the context where our idea of Resurrection originated), the spirit was popularly imagined to linger near the body for three days after death before departing. Resurrection after the third day would have been considered . . . miraculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection Making JC's restoration of Lazarus that much more impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection I would allow him to take a limitation for it, but its perfectly valid whether you do or don't make the allowance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection In the ancient Middle East (the context where our idea of Resurrection originated)' date=' the spirit was popularly imagined to linger near the body for three days after death before departing. Resurrection after the third day would have been considered . . . miraculous![/quote'] Actually: according to the Jewish sages of that time, the strength of the souls bond to the body works in stages. The first day, the first week, the first month, the first year. Also, the righteousness of the person would have an affect on this. In general, the cultural assumption at the time (and in some circles today) is that the strength of the bond depended on how mired in the physical world the person was. A righteous person would have a weaker connection to the physical body, and their soul would return to God more quickly - some even after the first day - while a wicked person would take longer. Further, there is an assumption no one is so bad that it would take a whole year, which is why we only say the prayer for the dead for eleven months. The hadith literature contains a similar paradigm, but with differences only a muslim scholar could elucidate for you (as I only have a passing awareness of it). The three day model is specifically christian, appearing in the dark ages. As a result, to model "middle eastern" ressurection, one would want a skill roll that became more difficult based on the time element and took into consideration the targets connection to the Almighty. The more righteous, the shorter your window of opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection Lord Liaden got my reference. According to John (chapter 11), Lazarus was raised on the fourth day. Actually: according to the Jewish sages of that time' date=' the strength of the souls bond to the body works in stages. The first day, the first week, the first month, the first year. Also, the righteousness of the person would have an affect on this. In general, the cultural assumption at the time (and in some circles today) is that the strength of the bond depended on how mired in the physical world the person was. A righteous person would have a weaker connection to the physical body, and their soul would return to God more quickly - some even after the first day - while a wicked person would take longer. Further, there is an assumption no one is so bad that it would take a whole year, which is why we only say the prayer for the dead for eleven months. The hadith literature contains a similar paradigm, but with differences only a muslim scholar could elucidate for you (as I only have a passing awareness of it). The three day model is specifically christian, appearing in the dark ages. As a result, to model "middle eastern" ressurection, one would want a skill roll that became more difficult based on the time element and took into consideration the targets connection to the Almighty. The more righteous, the shorter your window of opportunity.[/quote'] I saw the three-day thing described as a "popular belief," not as rabbinic teaching. It was probably not even specifically Jewish (nor, indeed, is the idea of Resurrection, which appeared in Zoroastrianism before Judaism). But the three-day belief is implicit in the Lazarus story, so it could not have arisen later than the first century AD. Thanks for sharing the teaching of the Jewish sages on this topic. I can see echoes of this in Eastern Christianity, but not, unfortunately, in the Western versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection In the ancient Middle East (the context where our idea of Resurrection originated).... Ouch. Hmm. That is a pretty presumptuous statement as far as I can tell. Questions about what if anything happens after death, what becomes of the dead, whether there is any coming back, etc., have been around for as long as humankind has had consciousness. It is the biggest issue we face, both in our individual lives and in each of our cultures. Every medical practice, from tribal to Eastern to Western traditions, has dealt with the problem of bringing people back from death (or near death). That the idea of resurrection came from any one culture or area is a pretty weak conclusion and would require a mountainload of evidence to support. That doesn't mean we cannot look to a particular cultural or religous belief for use in our settings, but it certainly does mean that any one cultural or religious belief isn't the only one we can use for a potential basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Resurrection Ouch. Hmm. That is a pretty presumptuous statement as far as I can tell. As an example, Orpheus almost succeeded in bringing back his wife in classical Greek myth. Many Greek heros of myth visited the Underworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Resurrection As an example' date=' Orpheus almost succeeded in bringing back his wife in classical Greek myth. Many Greek heros of myth visited the Underworld.[/quote'] As did many in other mythologies. The concept of ressurection has been around since the first guy who everyone thought was dead, got up and walked around some more (which I suspect happened all the time, and basicaly everywhere, given that medical science hadn't really pinned down exactly when death occures, and technically still hasn't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephrosyne Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Resurrection I love that story (Orpheus and Eurydice). Of course, the dummy did have to ruin a perfectly happy ending by looking back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Resurrection Great, something else I have to think about if I ever run Mystic Champions. *searches Wikipedia for how long the human brain can function without oxygen before major brain damage kicks in* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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