The “Unofficial� Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Any book that deals with mental powers is going to have to at least mention the options for having additional' date=' mental-only actions. Hopefully somebody's got some ideas of how to do this simply and neatly.[/quote']

Purchase Extra Speed with the Limitation, For use with Mental Powers Only (-1/2)

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I was cogitating earlier on possible non-Mentalist uses for some of the EGO-based skills from the first edition of TUM, and I'm kind of wondering if they might be usable in Skill vs Skill contests against certain Interaction Skills. For instance, Veil (the "mental Stealth" IIRC) could be used to oppose Conversation, Interrogation, or other information-seeking Skills. It's a thought to ponder, at any rate....

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I was cogitating earlier on possible non-Mentalist uses for some of the EGO-based skills from the first edition of TUM' date=' and I'm kind of wondering if they might be usable in Skill vs Skill contests against certain Interaction Skills. For instance, Veil (the "mental Stealth" IIRC) could be used to oppose Conversation, Interrogation, or other information-seeking Skills. It's a thought to ponder, at any rate....[/quote']

 

I think that's a great idea! Veil (actually mental concealment) could be used to answer questions directly without revealing any useful information (or appearing to), and could possibly be used to directly talk about a subject in a way that's deliberate vague but without seeming so. Cloak (mental stealth) could used to reveil information through inuendo, euphimism and subtle metaphor in a way that even those who wouldn't normally know what you are talking about will "get it" but anyone overhearing the conversation would not. It would also allow someone to talk plainly to a group, but direct certain statement to specific individuals without seeming to do so to anyone else. Basically, they could substitute for any Interaction Skill in the appropriate circumstances, depending on what the character is attempting to do.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I think that's a great idea! Veil (actually mental concealment) could be used to answer questions directly without revealing any useful information (or appearing to)' date=' and could possibly be used to directly talk about a subject in a way that's deliberate vague but without seeming so. Cloak (mental stealth) could used to reveil information through inuendo, euphimism and subtle metaphor in a way that even those who wouldn't normally know what you are talking about will "get it" but anyone overhearing the conversation would not. It would also allow someone to talk plainly to a group, but direct certain statement to specific individuals without seeming to do so to anyone else. Basically, they could substitute for any Interaction Skill in the appropriate circumstances, depending on what the character is attempting to do.[/quote']

I think I have to disagree with these particular examples (though not the general idea of non-mentalists using the EGO-based skills). It seems to me that if you're trying to sound forthright and direct, while not actually answering the questions you don't want to answer, that's just Conversation. Likewise, if you want to imply an accusation or suggest an insult without explicitly making it. They seem much more precisely like an interaction skill. Politicians do this kind of thing all the time, but I wouldn't call these "mentalist/EGO skills". In general, one skill shouldn't be used to substitute for another.

 

However, I can think of uses of EGO-based skills that would be useful to non-mentalists: Cloak could be used to hide a particular thought from someone using Telepathy on you. Maybe some form of Everyman Cloak (or Everyhero Cloak) is what keeps every telepath from instantly knowing everyone's secret ID. Veil could be used to hide from Mind Scan.

 

IMO, if it's about you words spoken to others, it's an Interaction skill. If it's about your mind and unspoken thoughts, it's an EGO-skill.

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

It seems to me that if you're trying to sound forthright and direct' date=' while not actually answering the questions you don't want to answer, that's just Conversation. [/quote']

 

Actually, I meant the exact opposite. The character does answer the question, but in a subtle and indirect manner so that only some people in the room (of the speaker's choice) understand. This is a bit beyond any Interaction Skill in my opinion.

 

I do like your idea for using Ego Skills for resisting the effects of Mental Powers though. A roll (plus appropriate concentration and such) would effectively increase the character's EGO to determine the effect of a Mental Power, or even provide an optional method of breaking out of a Mental Power already in effect. Skill vs Skill, with the mentalist rolling his EGO Roll+AP/5 or something like that.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I'd like to see Steve's take on a polished Psionics system. I've seen him build magic systems - I want TUM to give me pieces of a new world, or at least start tying into the next major arc for the Champions Universe. I would love to see more fiction & flavor (not to the extent of White Wolf, but mood setting material) that can do a lot towards conferring the 'feel' of mentalist.

 

In d20, you spend all the time looking up rules because each spell is different. In HERO, you just rattle off the code because you know what you're doing, but the downside is occassionally we're looking at code as Neo, and not as players. We're too close, and we can 'see' what's happening. That's why the descriptive text is so important, and that's why I'd love to see someone really take this ball and run with it.

 

I'd like:

 

A fully developed, well crafted Psionics System that anyone can use without trying to make it themselves, and without it being 'd20.' In other words, Psionics Steve Long style.

 

A Rogue's Gallery of both Psionics, Psychic Enhanced Soldiers, at least one evil overlord, a group of anti-psions, and an over-arc (included published adventure) that details why these characters matter, in addition to the pre-genned heroes.

 

Obviously, more powers are a given, but that's why I'd love to see a fully fleshed out system. So it isn't just a collection of powers, but a collection of powers that build on each other, rather than the normal smattering of nifty abilities.

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I'd like to see Steve's take on a polished Psionics system. I've seen him build magic systems - I want TUM to give me pieces of a new world' date=' or at least start tying into the next major arc for the Champions Universe. I would love to see more fiction & flavor (not to the extent of White Wolf, but mood setting material) that can do a lot towards conferring the 'feel' of mentalist.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure if that fits into the Ultimate line. Definately fits into an actual genre or setting book, but the Ultimate books are more of just rules with a number of examples. A fully detailed psionics system, though useful, would be too limiting for a rule expansion book.

 

That said, I definately love to see such a system, actually several examples of such systems. Psionics should work differently in a fantasy game than they would in SF game (and would also work differently between a fantastic SF and hard SF games).

 

Perhaps a list of rough guidelines by genre/setting in TUM would be good.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Actually' date=' I meant the exact opposite. The character [i']does[/i] answer the question, ....

Ah. I misunderstood you. In this case, I agree with you.

 

I do like your idea for using Ego Skills for resisting the effects of Mental Powers though. A roll (plus appropriate concentration and such) would effectively increase the character's EGO to determine the effect of a Mental Power, or even provide an optional method of breaking out of a Mental Power already in effect. Skill vs Skill, with the mentalist rolling his EGO Roll+AP/5 or something like that.

We have to be careful that these skills don't overshadow Mental Defense or other Mental Powers. Their use against mental powers should be kept fairly limited: If someone is using Telepathy on you, you might be able to keep certain thoughts secret, but not others. Mental Defense should still be the main way to prevent the effects of Mental Powers. I don't think Veil, Cloak, and Facade (mental Disguise) should be used as breakout rolls. You wouldn't use Concealment, Stealth, or Disguise to break out of an Entangle, or other non-mental power. However, I would be happy to see the various "mental maneuvers" included, like mental dodge and mental block, etc. IIRC, there were such things included in the previous TUM.

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I would never want such Skills to be able to replace Mental Defense and EGO when dealing with Mental Powers, but perhaps, with heavy modifiers, they could due in a pinch. Also, they would tend to only apply after the fact, and only if they are aware of the mental intrusion. That along makes this kind of use limited, but putting penalties to such rolls (based on the DC or effect of the Mental Power used against them) seems to make this use most fair. At least to me.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

For those who haven't seen it, the Anime series Gilgamesh has some truly fantastic examples of psychic powers going full tilt through some of the larger battle sequences, including TK-Style EBs, genetic recoding, TK, TP, CV, Mind Link and Danger Sense. They do a wonderful job of making the characters real while giving them incredible power. I'm on disc four, but they have yet to explain where .... I forget what they call END - comes from, or how its transferred, but it isn't finite, and it does get transfered.

 

Great series, and something I'd definately like to see included as a reference. Great, great material.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

DR - Disagree. In Gadgets & Gear he builds all sorts of insanity; in UMA he built Martial Arts packages, in Ultimate Speedster he gave examples not only of a vast suite of powers, but rules which are specific to being a Speedster. Ultimate Mentalist is unique because it IS dealing directly with a power set, so I would think (personally) that it's required to give a starting point from which to discuss it. A functional Psionics System.

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

DR - Disagree. In Gadgets & Gear he builds all sorts of insanity; in UMA he built Martial Arts packages' date=' in Ultimate Speedster he gave examples not only of a vast suite of powers, but rules which are specific to being a Speedster. Ultimate Mentalist is unique because it IS dealing directly with a power set, so I would think (personally) that it's required to give a starting point from which to discuss it. A functional Psionics System.[/quote']

It's been awhile... what are you disagreeing with?