The “Unofficial� Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Here's a special rule I used under 3rd Edition (I haven't GM'ed over a mentalist since then) that I found to be fairly successful.

 

To always get a certain effect from a Mental Power, simply add the effect modifier as an Adder.

 

For example, suppose my mentalist has a Mind Control in which the target always remembers his actions and thinks they're natural. He can't "turn off" this effect; it's always there. Currently the character would just buy +6d6 of Mind Control with a Limitation Only To Make Target Always Remember His Actions And Think They Are Natural (-1/2). With my rule, this would be a simple +20 point Adder.

 

And this could be done with anything, including the current Mandatory Effect Limitation on 5ER page 121.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Here's a special rule I used under 3rd Edition (I haven't GM'ed over a mentalist since then) that I found to be fairly successful.

 

To always get a certain effect from a Mental Power, simply add the effect modifier as an Adder.

 

For example, suppose my mentalist has a Mind Control in which the target always remembers his actions and thinks they're natural. He can't "turn off" this effect; it's always there. Currently the character would just buy +6d6 of Mind Control with a Limitation Only To Make Target Always Remember His Actions And Think They Are Natural (-1/2). With my rule, this would be a simple +20 point Adder.

 

And this could be done with anything, including the current Mandatory Effect Limitation on 5ER page 121.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BobGreenwade again.

 

Thank you I was looking everywhere for that.

 

QM

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I think "telepathic" should similarly be an adder' date=' not an advantage--probably +10 points to transmit commands telepathically. So, telepathic, inobtrusive mind control costs an extra 25 points. In a 350 point game with an 80 AP limit, one could have 11d6 of inobtrusive, TP mind control--enough to be effective with commands at the +20 level, but hard to get effects at the +30 or +40 level without haymakering or pushing.[/quote']

 

I hadn't thought of making the Telepathic Advantage into an Adder. Might be a good idea, but I'm not sure. I was thinking of Mental Powers universally when I created Unobtrusive.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Dust, Mega, and Bob,

 

Good ideas about the adders. My advantage was based on the value of Invisible Power Effects - it hides the use of the power, but only to non-mentalists. An adder might be an even better way to go with this. Perhaps even something lile Bob's +20 Adder, with a limitation (just on the Adder), "Only vs. Non-mentalists".

 

What I wanted was a way to affect "normal" minds undetected, but any mentalist would say, "Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me."

 

And re: telepathic commands, I usually give Telepathic for free, because that seems to be the way it always is in the source material. If your teammate suddenly attacks you, it's not too hard to figure out that he's been mind controlled, but it should come as a surprise. The mentallist shouldn't have to "telegraph" his attack by giving his mental command out loud.

 

And just to be clear: I might still require an advantage it the mentalist and target don't share a language.

 

And while we're still on the subject, here's something else to include in TUM:

A discussion of maneuvers with Mental Powers. A few specific ones came up recently: Set, and Brace. I assume these can be used with Mental Powers, but the book doesn't specify (at least FREd doesn't). Obviously, Brace would only apply if the power has a RMod, but the question remains, if you brace with a Mental Power that has a normal RMod, do you have half DCV, half DECV, or both? I could probably figure this out on my own, but TUM should spell this stuff out explicitly.

 

Request for a new smiley: the Mentallist Smiley! Sort of like the standard , but with the face very small beneath the big-brained head.

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

I'm don't believe maneuvers like Set and Brace can ever apply to Mental Powers. For one, the physical aspects of them are decidedly physical; setting is just aiming, and you can't realy improve on LOS, bracing is litterally bracing against a force that would throw your aim off, typically recoil or just a more stable Set, and such forces would be nonexistant for mental powers. Mechanically Brace does nothing for Mental Powers, as there are no Range Penalties.

 

Now, I certainly see some use for a Mental equivalent. Perhaps a Concentrate (hopefully a better tern so not to be confused with the Limitation) which focuses "breakthrough" power to increase the chances contacting the target mind, but at the sacrifice of recuded DCV and (yes, and) ECV (both mind and body and left open to attack) Such a maneuver should take a Full Phase to perform. I can see something like this granting a +1 per Phase of "concentration" up to a +3, and the attack must maintain LOS with the target the entire time, but need not attack right away.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

So why shouldn't you be allowed the equivalent of Set and Brace? I don't get it. Set gives you +1 OCV in exchange for taking a full phase, there's no DCV penalty at all. There's nothing about Set that doesn't have a direct analogy to Mental Powers. In this case, you'd be getting +1 OECV.

 

As for Brace, Mental Powers can have the Limitation: Normal RMod, which I mentioned would be necessary for Brace to mean anything. It gives +2 vs. RMod, in exchange for being at half DCV. Wouldn't it make just as much sense to use it with Mental Powers that have the RMod lim? And yes, Mental Brace probably should halve both DCV and DECV.

 

But neither of these maneuvers are required to have a specific SFX. Physically bracing against a wall is just one possible SFX for the Brace maneuver. But a Brace doesn't have to look like that to be a Brace. And a Brace with a Mental Power most likely won't. But that isn't a reason why you shouldn't be able to do it. After all, all the other standard maneuvers are available with Mental Powers (push, spread, haymaker, etc.).

[Dust Raven]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Set does make more sense than Braced, agreed. Braced, as you mentioned, only makes sense of the Mental Power is affected by RMods. Anything affected by RMods (that involved aiming) can benifit from Braced. That wouldn't even be a special rule or option for Mental Powers or the Braced Maneuver though, just how it's normally used.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

So, to be Braced when using a mental power, do you have to rest your head on something solid? Or someone who is mentally stable?

 

The implications of having a mental power that needs to be aimed (and thus are affected by range mods) are many. Traditionally, mental powers don't "miss." They may be resisted, or even reflected back to the attacker, but as long as the attacker can sense the target, the attack gets to where it is going. In most literature, the "mental space" is dimensionless. Distance is nonexistent -- a person known to the psychic may often be contacted mentally no matter where they are in the world.

 

To say that a mental power is affected by range is to pull it down into the physical world. Since it must be aimed, it must traverse the space between attacker and target, its accuracy can be affected by partial cover, it can be dodged, and it can hit something/someone unintended.

 

Of course, this is all just my opinion. I would love to hear other interpretations of the implications of mental powers being affected by RMod.

 

Now Set, on the other hand, is just calming yourself. For mental powers, call it "centering" or somesuch if you must.

[Egyptoid]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

How about writing + re-writing Psych disads (also enraged+berzerk)

with BOECV changes (Mental Transforms)

[megaplayboy]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

How about writing + re-writing Psych disads (also enraged+berzerk)

with BOECV changes (Mental Transforms)

Psychic surgery needs a few pages at least.

 

--adding or changing psych lims

--endowing the target with vulnerability to mental attacks--or removing it

--erasing memories or adding false ones

--using BOECV Transform to create "meat puppets" or symbionts

--ways to undo psychic surgery

--"natural recovery"

--partial effect--what does it mean for psychic transforms?

 

etc.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

Psychic surgery needs a few pages at least.

 

--adding or changing psych lims

--endowing the target with vulnerability to mental attacks--or removing it

--erasing memories or adding false ones

--using BOECV Transform to create "meat puppets" or symbionts

--ways to undo psychic surgery

--"natural recovery"

--partial effect--what does it mean for psychic transforms?

 

etc.

I second the Psychic Surgery Stuff.

 

Great ideas

 

QM

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Given the subject matter, shouldn't the title of this thread be more along the lines of: "The 'Unofficial' Ultimate Mentalist Project - This is what you want to see...these are great ideas...you will support their inclusion in the final product..." ?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Resurrecting the thread, I have a few more items to add to my "wish list" for TUM.

 

First, since recosting Telekinesis is clearly not going to be an possibility for the main rules, I'd like to see it as an option here. The recosting I have in mind is to eliminate Telekinetic Squeeze/Punch (if you want to do telekinetic damage, buy Energy Blast) and let TK cost 1 point per 1 STR only to move things. (I was just reminded of this "pet peeve" of mine about this Power when I had occasion to mention an old PC of mine, Mustardseed, whose TK went up to 75 STR -- though he had to switch Multipower slots to do damage with it.)

 

A smaller thing: I'm told that President James Garfield could write in Latin using one hand and Greek in the other, at the same time. I'm not 100% certain the story is true (though the sources are relatively reliable), but it's an interesting idea that goes beyond mere ambidexterity. The ability to literally and fully concentrate on more than one task at the same time is a good "super-intellect" ability, but to model it using the Hero System? Offhand I'd either use the "Five Points Double" rule -- for 5 points the character can use two Skills, or carry out two tasks using the same Skill, simultaneously, and for every +5 points the number of tasks doubles -- or call it Extra Limbs BOECV. Naturally the character would have to have the physical equipment (that is, available limbs) to perform all manual tasks on the list.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

Psychic surgery needs a few pages at least.

 

--adding or changing psych lims

--endowing the target with vulnerability to mental attacks--or removing it

--erasing memories or adding false ones

--using BOECV Transform to create "meat puppets" or symbionts

--ways to undo psychic surgery

--"natural recovery"

--partial effect--what does it mean for psychic transforms?

 

etc.

 

I'd like to see more on this myself. Be a big help with a villain or two of mine.

 

BTW: "meat puppets"?

[OddHat]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

A smaller thing: I'm told that President James Garfield could write in Latin using one hand and Greek in the other, at the same time. I'm not 100% certain the story is true (though the sources are relatively reliable), but it's an interesting idea that goes beyond mere ambidexterity. The ability to literally and fully concentrate on more than one task at the same time is a good "super-intellect" ability, but to model it using the Hero System? Offhand I'd either use the "Five Points Double" rule -- for 5 points the character can use two Skills, or carry out two tasks using the same Skill, simultaneously, and for every +5 points the number of tasks doubles -- or call it Extra Limbs BOECV. Naturally the character would have to have the physical equipment (that is, available limbs) to perform all manual tasks on the list.

 

Maybe the character could buy a Computer and Computer Link, defined as a back-up brain? Plus Two Weapon Fighing and Rapid Attack.

 

Or a sort of very limited duplication.

[Kristopher]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

A smaller thing: I'm told that President James Garfield could write in Latin using one hand and Greek in the other' date=' at the same time. I'm not 100% certain the story is true (though the sources are relatively reliable), [/quote']

 

 

I've read/heard the same thing about Jefferson.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

A smaller thing: I'm told that President James Garfield could write in Latin using one hand and Greek in the other' date=' at the same time. I'm not 100% certain the story is true (though the sources are relatively reliable), but it's an interesting idea that goes beyond mere ambidexterity. The ability to literally and fully concentrate on more than one task at the same time is a good "super-intellect" ability, but to model it using the Hero System? Offhand I'd either use the "Five Points Double" rule -- for 5 points the character can use two Skills, or carry out two tasks using the same Skill, simultaneously, and for every +5 points the number of tasks doubles -- or call it Extra Limbs BOECV. Naturally the character would have to have the physical equipment (that is, available limbs) to perform all manual tasks on the list.[/quote']

This just sounds like a simple Talent to me, "Able to perform multiple tasks" at 3-5pts.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

First' date=' since recosting Telekinesis is clearly not going to be an possibility for the main rules, I'd like to see it as an [i']option[/i] here. The recosting I have in mind is to eliminate Telekinetic Squeeze/Punch (if you want to do telekinetic damage, buy Energy Blast) and let TK cost 1 point per 1 STR only to move things. (I was just reminded of this "pet peeve" of mine about this Power when I had occasion to mention an old PC of mine, Mustardseed, whose TK went up to 75 STR -- though he had to switch Multipower slots to do damage with it.)

Not a bad idea. Although it is almost the same as the current rule of simply applying a limitation "Cannot TK Punch/Squeeze". You could still do damage with it by picking up an object and bashing someone. Would it still be the same amount of damage as would be indicated by the STR of the TK? IOW, if I have 60 STR TK (for 60 points), can I pick up a car and whack someone with it for 12d6? If so, it becomes like an EB with a Focus of Opportunity, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

A smaller thing: I'm told that President James Garfield could write in Latin using one hand and Greek in the other, at the same time.

It sounds plausible to me. I've read other things about him: that he enjoyed performing various acrobatic stunts, juggling, etc. For game mechanics, I wouldn't bother making a new skill/talent/whatever, I'd just call it Ambidextrous and high skill rolls in the appropriate Skills. Or perhaps Penalty Skill Levels to compensate for the difficulty factor of performing multiple skills at the same time.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial” Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Not a bad idea. Although it is almost the same as the current rule of simply applying a limitation "Cannot TK Punch/Squeeze". You could still do damage with it by picking up an object and bashing someone. Would it still be the same amount of damage as would be indicated by the STR of the TK? IOW' date=' if I have 60 STR TK (for 60 points), can I pick up a car and whack someone with it for 12d6? If so, it becomes like an EB with a Focus of Opportunity, which is not necessarily a bad thing.[/quote']

A GM may or may not require EB with FOO to do this trick (already we have similar maybe/maybe not for doing this with regular STR). Also it may require a Grab (on the object) in one Phase to attack using it in the next, yet another limitation (or Limitation).

 

Also, as you recognize, it's not quite the same as just applying the Affects Whole Object (-1/4) Limitation, in that a straight 1:1 cost would fit more snugly into Multipowers and would cost less END.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial” Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

This just sounds like a simple Talent to me' date=' "Able to perform multiple tasks" at 3-5pts.[/quote']It would probably go into the Talents column, though under 5th Ed all (or at least most) Talents are built from Powers.

[Vondy]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

The Ego Combat Martial Arts in 4th Edition were pretty cool.

[Egyptoid]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

this is geeky, but how about a definitive listing,

of what would it be like

 

What if the BOECV advantage were applied to ______ power?

 

and go through EACH power, the pros and cons, SFX suggested...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial” Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

The Ego Combat Martial Arts in 4th Edition were pretty cool.

That's one other thing I was going to bring up. And I'd like to see it integrated with the material from TUMA.

 

I'd also like to see a version of BOECV that simply turns whatever it's applied to into a bone fide Mental Power, with all the bells and whistles.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: The “Unofficial” Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To See?"

 

Another item....

 

A system for true "hive mind" consciousness. Somehow a simple Mind Link to the entire rest of the population (or even a large chunk of it) seems too many points for too little effect. Maybe a Mind Link to the "central consciousness" with an extra Advantage for True Single Consciousness (+1).

[OddHat]

Re: The “Unofficial†Ultimate Mentalist Project (Fan Version “What Do *You* Want To S

 

I loved Mentalist Martial Arts, and I still use them.

 

I also allow BOECV to turn any power into a true Mental Power with all the trimmings.

 

Seing both of those re-visited would be cool.