Tattered Plot Threads

[levi]

I have run or been involved in a number of Champions Campaigns over the 20 years or so I've been playing this game, as many of us here on the boards have. I would really like to get a regular game going again, but it seems like my players are each really attached to particular characters.

 

So why not just run a new campaign for those characters??? Duh, why is he wasting our time with this thread?

 

Well, the problem is that these characters are all from different campaigns, some of which I didn't run, some from alternate timelines and universes. So how do I pull all of these disparate characters together into a campaign where I know all of the players will get to play the characters they love?

 

Do I...

 

...just make up reasons why the other groups fell apart and these characters have come together as a new group?

 

...have some cosmic event pull these heroes together from their respective timelines / universes / tattered campaigns? (a la Avengers Forever or Exiles)

 

...write up slightly watered down versions of these beloved characters and have them wake up in an abandoned lab and discover that they are clones of the original programmed to be activated on the apparent death of the originals (I stole this idea from Villainy Amok, great book Scott! If you don't have it, get it!)

 

I am totally open to suggestions here and I know I can count on this group to help a hero out.

[Hermit]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Well, I would say a lot depends on your players and their individual tastes etc.

 

You could even do the 'alternate Earth' thing, where a world with slightly altered histories for those characters exists that would have them currently solo but in need of a new team.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

All of your publishing companies have been bought out by a larger comic book company. Your backstories have now been assimilated. And it's always been that way. Always. The editor's will prevails. Muahahahah!

[Agent 13]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

You could even do the 'alternate Earth' thing' date=' where a world with slightly altered histories for those characters exists that would have them currently solo but in need of a new team.[/quote']

 

I'd recommend this approach, myself, if only to avoid the "in world not their own" angst and possible ignoring of your plots in favor of that search for the leap home.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

My idea:

 

There is an alternate universe where equivalents of all of them exist and are a team, having had similiar histories but different (due to the presence of each other/absence of some)...

 

And THOSE guys just died. And a spell to save them accidently pulled in their 'closest otherdimensional alternate who is still alive'...

 

So. Someone is out to kill all of you. Wonder why?

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

A possibility is to ask them to recreate the character for your new campaign based on whatever starting guidelines you have (such as 350 points).

 

I know over on HeroCentral that I've seen people submit the same character into various games and modify them according to the GM's wishes. Granted that's easier to do than with friends (strange things these emotions), but it may be worth a try.

 

Other than that, maybe do a "children of" campaign. That way they get the memory of their favorite character while you get the freshness of a new character.

 

In a FtF gaming group I was in years ago. The wife of the GM played "Helga" in a Golden Age game. Helga had growth, shrinking and stretching. The wife played "Olga" in a modern campaign. She had growth, shrinking and stretching. Olga was the granddaughter of Helga. Go figure.

[csyphrett]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

A harder option Levi is to use the old characters, and create a mastermind to strike at all those separate dimensions at once.

 

CES

[David Johnston]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

I personally would go with "this is a brand new universe, which contains counterparts of your old characters."

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

A harder option Levi is to use the old characters' date=' and create a mastermind to strike at all those separate dimensions at once.[/quote']

While I think this would be more work to start out with, it could be done well. And Istvatha V'han would be the perfect villainess for that job.

 

EDIT: (Finally a good use for her.)

[pinecone]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Not a bad idea the cosmic princess kidnaps them all from various realitys to futher her own ends...the heros, being themselves, teams up to defeat evil!

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Not a bad idea the cosmic princess kidnaps them all from various realitys to futher her own ends...the heros' date=' being themselves, teams up to defeat evil![/quote']

Well, first, thanks for the compliment, but second, I was thinking more along the lines of V'han attacking multiple dimensions at once from the same "launching pad."

 

The PC hero teams up with local heroes to form a plan to repel the invaders. The majority of grouped heroes are used to repel the invaders from their dimension, but there is a small group of volunteers (which naturally includeds the PC) who will go into the alien dimension to disable whatever contraption is being used to open the portals. When the volunteer groups go into the alien dimension, they succeed in closing thier portals, and discover the other PCs and their teams! After a brief introduction, it's discovered that while there are X amount of groups (one per PC), there are X+1 portals; the extra portal is to a dimension where V'han is succeeding, and will continue to do so unless our stalwart PCs intervene!

 

Once the PCs go through that portal (to repel the invaders), V'han closes the portal behind them, sacrificing her troops. Now, the PCs are in the same 'universe' and they decide to stay ('cause really, no one knows how to send them back home).

 

Well, that's what I was thinking more along the lines of, though in retrospect, it'd be pretty hard to figure that out off the bat.

 

Of course, whatever works best for the GM.

[levi]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

First, thanks for all the great ideas and feedback!

 

Well, first, thanks for the compliment, but second, I was thinking more along the lines of V'han attacking multiple dimensions at once from the same "launching pad."

 

The PC hero teams up with local heroes to form a plan to repel the invaders. The majority of grouped heroes are used to repel the invaders from their dimension, but there is a small group of volunteers (which naturally includeds the PC) who will go into the alien dimension to disable whatever contraption is being used to open the portals. When the volunteer groups go into the alien dimension, they succeed in closing thier portals, and discover the other PCs and their teams! After a brief introduction, it's discovered that while there are X amount of groups (one per PC), there are X+1 portals; the extra portal is to a dimension where V'han is succeeding, and will continue to do so unless our stalwart PCs intervene!

 

Once the PCs go through that portal (to repel the invaders), V'han closes the portal behind them, sacrificing her troops. Now, the PCs are in the same 'universe' and they decide to stay ('cause really, no one knows how to send them back home).

 

Well, that's what I was thinking more along the lines of, though in retrospect, it'd be pretty hard to figure that out off the bat.

 

Of course, whatever works best for the GM.

 

Great idea Kirby! I can't rep you right now, but I will try to get you later.

 

So what do these guys do now that they have left their home dimensions, their loved ones and their lives behind?

Do they...

 

...forge new lives in the new dimension?

 

...find out that their counterparts in this dimension were recently killed by V'han and replace them?

 

...find a way to jump back to their own dimension periodically and retain their Secret IDs in their home dimension with a interdimensional signaling device they can use to jump back through when their help is needed?

 

...anything else you guys & gals can come up with???

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Great idea Kirby! I can't rep you right now' date=' but I will try to get you later.[/quote']Why thank you.

 

So what do these guys do now that they have left their home dimensions, their loved ones and their lives behind?

Do they...

 

...forge new lives in the new dimension?

 

...find out that their counterparts in this dimension were recently killed by V'han and replace them?

I'd go for both of these. Sure, their Secret ID's may have been blown (or they just could have seemed to moved without a trace) in Dimenison X, but that doesn't matter any more.

 

If they did have Secret/Public ID's, maybe give them a bonus 15 XP ONLY to buy off that limitation, once you hand XP out.

 

 

...find a way to jump back to their own dimension periodically and retain their Secret IDs in their home dimension with a interdimensional signaling device they can use to jump back through when their help is needed?

I personally wouldn't do this because the PCs would find reasons to return home as well as "really, why should I keep saving that dimension? There are plenty of heroes to handle what's left." I would discard this idea. If a PC has a DNPC, then maybe they came along for one reason or another (if a sibling) or perhaps (if girlfriend) their DNPC is more of a "wild child" here. Maybe it's just exchanged for a new DNPC.

 

That part could be tough. Maybe before-hand, you tell them that if they want DNPCs, they'll "come into play" after the game has started. This was, Mister X doesn't go through heartbreak when he leaves his wife behind. And he doesn't feel like he's cheating (or being weird) when he moves in with his counterpart's wife. (Imagine if his son is now his daughter, or his wife is now a red-head, or a twin!)

[assault]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

So what do these guys do now that they have left their home dimensions, their loved ones and their lives behind?

Do they...

 

...forge new lives in the new dimension?

 

The problem is that they are likely to be unimpressed about leaving "their loved ones and their lives" behind, and will want to get back to them. It's a good motivation for a dimension-hopping campaign, but it's bad news for one where you want them to stay put. This problem is actually worse with good roleplayers than with bad ones. The latter probably won't care about the change, while the good ones may.

 

You could get around this by collapsing the characters' home dimensions into one, Crisis on Infinite Earths style. That doesn't necessarily sit well with what is known about Istvatha V'han, but you could add a McGuffin that could cause the collapse.

 

I'm sure V'han would be really "impressed" about a gadget that could cause the multiverse to collapse. She might even help the PCs ensure that the potential Crisis on Infinite Earths is limited to just being a Crisis on A Few Earths. What is the McGuffin, and where does it come from? Maybe it's something to do with Tyrannon the Conqueror, or maybe it's related to the Qliphothic Realms...

 

The problem with all of this is that if you start your campaign with such a big bang, the rest of the game might seem anticlimactic!

 

Hmm... In fact it would make a neat limited duration game. It would probably too long to be satisfying as a Con game. A PBEM would work.

 

You would need to do a fair bit of foreshadowing, so people would care when everything hits the fan and characters start dying...

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

The problem is that they are likely to be unimpressed about leaving "their loved ones and their lives" behind' date=' and will want to get back to them. It's a good motivation for a dimension-hopping campaign, but it's bad news for one where you want them to stay put.[/quote']

Not necessarily. To begin with, the characters wouldn't know they were going to be leaving their loved ones behind. From their understanding, as soon as they defeat the dimensional gate machine/base, they'll be able to return home. The wouldn't realize V'han has a fail safe for such events. Plus, how many people in the CU have X-Dim travel? Not many. Even if they find a hero who has it, what if the hero believes (or worse, knows) that any X-Dim travel can be detected by V'han? Said hero refuses to open up a portal if it means V'han might retaliate. IF said hero can even find the right dimensions for all PCs.

 

Additionally, there's the "metagame" effect. Shows such as The Prisoner, Gilligan's Island, and Jailbreak were based on the idea of escaping, but if that ever came to be, the show would be over (same with The Fugitive, if he ever caught his wife's killer, and to a lesser effect Star Trek: Voyager, Arrested Development, and Hogan's Heroes that if their goal is reached, the show is over). If the "metagame effect" is done, the actors (read: players) understand ahead of time they won't be "returning home" and you don't have the problem.

 

YMMV.

[assault]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

To begin with' date=' the [i']characters[/i] wouldn't know they were going to be leaving their loved ones behind.

 

Well duh.

 

This is why they will be ticked off when they discover they can't get home.

 

If the "metagame effect" is done, the actors (read: players) understand ahead of time they won't be "returning home" and you don't have the problem.

 

Sure. But it won't stop the characters from trying to return home, which means that they will tend to remain strangers in the game universe, and not settle down and make new lives for themselves.

 

---

 

Most of all, it will negate the whole point of the players being able to play their old favourite characters. Instead they will end up playing characters with the same names and powers, but with completely different motivations and supporting casts.

 

This change is as radically different as DC's Silver Age reinventions of Golden Age characters like the Flash and Green Lantern, or some of the horrors perpetrated on far too many characters in the 90s.

 

(Incidentally, note the difference between good "reinventions" and bad "horrors" in that sentence.)

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Well duh.

 

This is why they will be ticked off when they discover they can't get home.

Sorry, I read your "likely to be unimpressed about leaving 'their loved ones and their lives' behind" as being present or future tense instead of past tense (since it wasn't "having left" or something similar).

 

 

Sure. But it won't stop the characters from trying to return home' date=' which means that they will tend to remain strangers in the game universe, and not settle down and make new lives for themselves.[/quote'] Not necessarily true, either. The castaways on Gilligan's Island made themselves at home, as did the troops from Hogan's Heroes (who decided that staying as prisoners they could help the war effort better than escaping). Some, such as those on Lost realize there isn't a return and have started adjusting to their live.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to throw out possible scenarios.

 

Most of all, it will negate the whole point of the players being able to play their old favourite characters. Instead they will end up playing characters with the same names and powers, but with completely different motivations and supporting casts.

That's your opinion.

 

If you have more ideas, throw them out, instead of just ticking off things you don't like about what has been offered, sheesh.

 

Another possible option is maybe using a time traveler (Captain Chronos?) for your first plot. Maybe he's doing some plan that involves "alternate timelines" in which the various PCs inevitably meet up. When the final confrontation comes, the villain (hero?) does something, jumps with glee and says something to the effect of "Thank God, it worked!" and then disappears (teleport or X-Dim travel). The PCs can't figure out what's happened, but they're all in the same dimension now. Their past is mostly as they remember it and no one that they know seems to have noticed anything different (though the PCs should when you start describing your city).

 

Finally, just tell your players "You're all in the same world. It happens in the comics and it's happening here."

 

As an aside, do all of these PCs have the same, or close to same, points? Someone with a 354 point character (from pre 5E days) may not be happy being in the same group as one with a 700 pt PC.

 

Whatever works for you, though.

[David Johnston]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

First, thanks for all the great ideas and feedback!

 

 

 

Great idea Kirby! I can't rep you right now, but I will try to get you later.

 

So what do these guys do now that they have left their home dimensions, their loved ones and their lives behind?

Do they...

 

...forge new lives in the new dimension?

 

...find out that their counterparts in this dimension were recently killed by V'han and replace them?

 

...find a way to jump back to their own dimension periodically and retain their Secret IDs in their home dimension with a interdimensional signaling device they can use to jump back through when their help is needed?

 

...anything else you guys & gals can come up with???

 

Ordinarily I'd expect them to start searching the world for a way home, meaning that you are going to at least going to have to start by dangling d-hop techniques in front them and have them encounter menaces along the way. It would be bad roleplaying for them not to want to return to their DNPCs and homeworlds unless things had turned sour for them at home to the point where they had nothing left to return to. They won't start forging new lives for themselves until they are satisfied that there is no way home. One way to approach that is to make it a Sliders campaign once they get their hands on a means of dimensional travel as they search a near infinite multiverse for their home plane. This problem is why I recommended you just have the players be playing dimensional counterparts to "their" characters. It really is easier unless you want to run a d-hopping campaign.

[levi]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

I really love the idea of a sweeping interdimensional plot line to get the campaign firing and unify these characters. I feel like the obstacles to making it work, may be too big and the consequences for the PCs may be too rough. I'm worried that stranding them in a new dimension will make them feel like they got the shaft for doing the right thing by saving the new dimension from V'Han. Especially if she strands them and abandons her D-Soldiers. It becomes basically...

 

PCs: "All right heroes! V'Han is winning in this dimension and we have to stop her. Who's in?"

 

5 heroes volunteer and procede through the gate.

 

V'Han: "Now I will simply close the gate behind them and simply abandon my inconsequential D-Soldiers, this Dimension and say Sionara suckers!"

 

PCs: "Man! We lost everything we ever loved to save a dimension she was willing to just abandon to be rid of us. We are suckers."

[Agent 13]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Not necessarily true' date=' either. The castaways on [i']Gilligan's Island[/i] made themselves at home, as did the troops from Hogan's Heroes (who decided that staying as prisoners they could help the war effort better than escaping). Some, such as those on Lost realize there isn't a return and have started adjusting to their live.

 

Comparing a cast of characters written by one or two scriptwriters with a plot resolution in mind to a cast of characters singly controlled by a number of different people with differing motivations and no plot resolution in their minds seems a bit applish/orangish.

[levi]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Edited the above post

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Comparing a cast of characters written by one or two scriptwriters with a plot resolution in mind to a cast of characters singly controlled by a number of different people with differing motivations and no plot resolution in their minds seems a bit applish/orangish.

Eh, whatever. I consider it thinking outside a small box. I'm throwing out multiple ideas instead of harping on those given.

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

I really love the idea of a sweeping interdimensional plot line to get the campaign firing and unify these characters. I feel like the obstacles to making it work' date=' may be too big and the consequences for the PCs may be too rough. I'm worried that stranding them in a new dimension will make them feel like they got the shaft for doing the right thing by saving the new dimension from V'Han.[/quote']

Quite frankly, you won't be able to satisfy them all. If each person wants to only play their PC from another campaign and wants no changes to them and you want a new campaign, there's too many things that someone's going to gripe about. You have point differences, past deed differences, the NPCs were tougher/easier before, my DNPC would never do that, spending too much time in one dimension over another, etc. Trying to keep them happy with their "past PCs" is going to wear on you since it will interfere with plots you want to run.

 

Maybe you can keep the "Dimensional Gate Outpost" open and it was just working on 5 dimensions instead of 6. But then you have the "why should we be a team? I've already got one/The problem's over," etc.

 

Again, I refer back to my post about having them all start as 350 point characters. A refresh/reboot option (we all know it happens in the comics).

 

Additionally, you can ask/make them come up with a way that they'll all be happy with their same character ("Let's all move to Campaign City!"). That way, the frustration/workload is on them. If they complain it's too tough, agree with them and point out that same stress would be on you to create something plausible.

 

Finally, just tell them "no," that they can't have their characters because it's too much hassle. Tell them they need to expand their imagination with a new type of character.

 

Whatever works for you.

[Agent 13]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

Eh' date=' whatever. I consider it thinking outside a small box. I'm throwing out multiple ideas instead of harping on those given. [/quote']

 

And I'm trying to have a discussion. I'm sorry you think that my opinions are so below yours that you can only respond with condescension and eye-rolling smilies.

[Kirby]

Re: Tattered Plot Threads

 

And I'm trying to have a discussion. I'm sorry you think that my opinions are so below yours that you can only respond with condescension and eye-rolling smilies.

Sure.

Comparing a cast of characters written by one or two scriptwriters with a plot resolution in mind to a cast of characters singly controlled by a number of different people with differing motivations and no plot resolution in their minds seems a bit applish/orangish.

There's no conversation there. Did you offer anything positive to the discussion? No. If it makes you feel better, I'll take your apples/oranges bad analogy. They're both fruit, they're both round, they both grow on trees and they are both made into juices. They both go in fruit salad and in gelatin. So I can think outside of your analogy.

 

As for cast and players, they both go into the 'job' knowing that the writer/GM has plans for what is supposed to happen. With reality tv/Who's Line is it Anyway, there's more ad-libbing, but the basics are the same.

 

So, what did you add to the discussion? Nothing. You'll have to pardon me if I see that as not adding to the discussion (twice). If you want to add, put an idea forth.