Not for DCV?

[The Souljourner]

I'm constructing a dragon, and want him to have low dex, but a decent OCV (and crappy DCV). What I'd like is for him to have combat skill levels with hand to hand combat, but they can be used for DCV as well as OCV (and for increasing damage... which I think is ok). So...

 

+x CSLs with HTH; Cannot be used for DCV (-?)

 

My gut says -3/4, since adding to OCV or DCV are the two main uses of CSLs, and using two for +1 DC is less important. It's losing not quite half of its effectiveness. On second thought, since it can normally only be one or the other, not both, I think -1/2 is probably more appropriate.

 

Thoughts? Is there a better way to raise just his OCV?

 

Also, just a power I gave him that I found amusing:

 

No Cheese 1 Dex; Inherent (+1/4); 4 Active Points

 

-Nate

[Zed-F]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Why wouldn't the dragon be able to use levels for DCV? Just because it's big doesn't mean it doesn't know how to defend itself. What if it were to fight another similarly large creature, like another dragon for instance? Shouldn't it be able to defend itself normally?

 

Normally the way to do large critters is to give them an appropriate DEX for how capable in combat they should be, and then assign a size template that will give them a -DCV penalty for attacks made by smaller creatures. This works in a similar manner to how Growth works but is permanent. There's some rules in 5ER for this but I don't have the book so I can't provide a reference.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Won't it lose a significant amount of DCV from its size? Give it the appropriate loss from its Size: Damn Big Physical Limitation, and even if it can use its levels to boost its DCV, there won't be enough of them to really make it worthwhile for him to do so.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

How many attacks will it use the levels for? 2 point OCV levels work quite nicely for just one attack. I'd probably allow 3 point levels, rather than 5 point levels, to be purchased as "+1 OCV in HTH", but that's not gospel.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Unless the dragon is human sized, he should probably have a Physical Limitation representing his size, and also giving him a DCV penalty based on that size. You could just buy his DEX up to where you'd like his base OCV to be and the Disad takes care of the rest.

 

I'm confused about the additional CSLs you mentioned. You said you basically want additional levels that work normally? Or did you mean for those to also be not versus DCV?

[David Johnston]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

I'm constructing a dragon, and want him to have low dex, but a decent OCV (and crappy DCV). What I'd like is for him to have combat skill levels with hand to hand combat, but they can be used for DCV as well as OCV (and for increasing damage... which I think is ok). So...

 

 

 

Thoughts? Is there a better way to raise just his OCV?

 

-Nate

Give him an 14- Enraged in Combat so that he never puts his levels into defense

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Well, there was an option presented in the Reality Storm crossover book for Champions and Silver Age Sentinels: 5-pt. CSLs, OCV Only. Kind of the opposite of DCV Only levels. Like those they would apply to any attack, HTH or Ranged. (Does your dragon breathe anything, perchance?)

 

According to Steve Long this isn't an officially-sanctioned use of CSLs, but a special exception to translate one of the SAS mechanics for the conversion matrix between the two games. For the life of me, though, I can't see how this would be abusive. I've been using it in my games since RS came out, and find that it adds flexibility to character builds.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Well' date=' there was an option presented in the [i']Reality Storm[/i] crossover book for Champions and Silver Age Sentinels: 5-pt. CSLs, OCV Only. Kind of the opposite of DCV Only levels. Like those they would apply to any attack, HTH or Ranged. (Does your dragon breathe anything, perchance?)

 

According to Steve Long this isn't an officially-sanctioned use of CSLs, but a special exception to translate one of the SAS mechanics for the conversion matrix between the two games. For the life of me, though, I can't see how this would be abusive. I've been using it in my games since RS came out, and find that it adds flexibility to character builds.

 

Heck I've been using this since 4th edition and it never has caused a problem.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

I regularly allow 5 point levels for OCV only. To me, it's a logical variation on the 5 point "All DCV" level, and the fact an 8 point level would let you choose between all OCV and all DCV.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

I'd put a CSL that can contribute to OCV or damage but not DCV at -1/2. Remember that turns into a -0 for CSLs worth less than 5 Base Points.

[The Souljourner]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Ahh, I never thought about doing a translation of those levels for DCV, but it makes perfect sense. I'll definitely do that.

 

Yes, the dragon has a breath weapon, but it's an EB AOE with no range, so I think technically it uses hand-to-hand CSLs to hit. But I'll give him the 5 point OCV CSLs and that'll work regardless.

 

-Nate

[prestidigitator]

Re: Not for DCV?

 

Ahh, I never thought about doing a translation of those levels for DCV, but it makes perfect sense. I'll definitely do that.

 

Yes, the dragon has a breath weapon, but it's an EB AOE with no range, so I think technically it uses hand-to-hand CSLs to hit. But I'll give him the 5 point OCV CSLs and that'll work regardless.

Actually you really don't need the CSLs for OCV on the breath weapon. At the most you will have to roll to hit a DCV 0 adjacent hex, but most GMs don't even require that since a miss would technically be in that hex anyway (the scatter for a range of 1 would be 1/2, rounded in the usual manner to zero). That's the great thing about AoE attacks; you're pretty much going to hit if you can get people in the right place.