Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

[David Johnston]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I don't get it. The Xenovores were created by a race that wanted to survive a nuclear holocaust? It's not like the race recreated their own forms, they created a whole new species that exists only to kill the other factions (and the creators in the bargain). Where does that make any sense at all?

I dunno. I said to Davros, y'know, this is kind of dumb idea, but would he listen to me? No, he wouldn't.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I don't get it. The Xenovores were created by a race that wanted to survive a nuclear holocaust? It's not like the race recreated their own forms, they created a whole new species that exists only to kill the other factions (and the creators in the bargain). Where does that make any sense at all?

I dunno. I said to Davros, y'know, this is kind of dumb idea, but would he listen to me? No, he wouldn't.

 

I had the Daleks in mind when I read Nolgroth's topic, too. Mind you, Doctor Who isn't always the most logical scifi show around. Besides, Nolgroth pointed out that it sounded like the Xenovores would have to have been created by psychopaths; I think Davros would fit.

[Sundog]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

But Davros didn't create the physical forms of the Daleks; he just modified what the Kaleds were going to end up as anyway (or what he believed they would become; it's become quite clear that Davros wasn't anywhere near as smart as he thought he was).

 

Does Alien Wars have any data on what the precursor race was like? It's possible the Xenovores aren't that different from the originals.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Does Alien Wars have any data on what the precursor race was like? It's possible the Xenovores aren't that different from the originals.

 

I don't recall any description of the physical attributes of the precursor race in the Xenovore origin story, but I don't have access to Alien Wars right now; maybe it's mentioned somewhere else.

 

IMO that is an interesting notion for an AW scenario. Humans stumble across a surviving pocket of the Xenovore precursors, hiding on some backwater planet. They're reasonable, peaceful people, who bear an unfortunate resemblance to their more aggressive descendants.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I don't recall any description of the physical attributes of the precursor race in the Xenovore origin story' date=' but I don't have access to [i']Alien Wars[/i] right now; maybe it's mentioned somewhere else.

 

IMO that is an interesting notion for an AW scenario. Humans stumble across a surviving pocket of the Xenovore precursors, hiding on some backwater planet. They're reasonable, peaceful people, who bear an unfortunate resemblance to their more aggressive descendants.

I actually wanted to do something similar with the "Others" in Space Wizards, and so looked for any description on what they were like. No luck. I'll just take away the carapace, tail, special digestion (obviously), some of the Characteristics enhancement, and a few other special abilities, and made them otherwise resemble the Xenovores physically (such as the vertical mouth and semi-prehensile feet).

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Yeah, there's nothing anywhere in it about the physical nature of the precursor race. I assumed that they were pretty much like the Xenovores, but without their massive adaptability. The super-redundant genetic structure is the real key to surviving a holocaust.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I dunno. I said to Davros' date=' y'know, this is kind of dumb idea, but would he listen to me? No, he wouldn't.[/quote']Funny. I like.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Sorry to get back to you so late on this, Nolgroth. I went to start answering it yesterday, got busy, and I can't post from the office (then again, at this job I have actual WORK that needs done, so go figure). But, I've had a couple of days to think about it, and I'm prepared to give you something that resembles an answer.

 

First, I don't know if ... "change" is the right word as much as "put my own spin on it." As you noted, it's always easy to be critical, and I'm not looking to put the book down - he published it, I didn't, points to him. But reviewing the material with a critical, "How would I run this game?" eye, there are some thoughts I had on that front. The first and most important question is:

 

"Who are the PCs?" In my Epic Fantasy campaign, the PCs are SpecOps, members of a secret military organization devoted to keeping demons off of this place of existence. Simple. Groovy. Would I tell that story again? Maybe. I think telling the story of a "day in the life" of a soldier would be an interesting campaign, and would get everyone's feet wet in the world as a whole. Sort of like '24.' Here's ONE DAY - it starts when you wake up, and it ends in 24 hours.

 

Oh yeah. And there's a war on, and some political strife, and heaven knows what else. Go! I think the book lacked humanization. That isn't meant as a pun, either - I mean you never get a feel for who these people are, how they live, how they struggled with the alien menace, and so on. War stories are ultimate stories of humanism; we (as a culture, and very often as gamers) love war stories because we get to see the essence of humanity through that lens. We see greatness, for good and evil. We see struggle, we see perseverence, we see heroism. We also see cowardice, we see the easy way out, we see failure - sometimes catastrophic failure. In a book titled "Alien Wars" I really wanted that driven home. I would have liked to see a War Story told, and then different elements of it exposed at different times.

 

- Here's the war on the ground. Here are major battle sites and what went well & what went poorly. Here's how we lost, here's how we won.

 

- Here's the war in space. These ships served for this time; then these, then these. We developed this tech (here) and this major conflict took place (here) over (this planet) during (this major ground battle). During that time (these characters) were the official heroes who (accomplished this major task for the salvation of the Empire).

 

- Here's the war in the Senate. Here are the major players, their agendas, and which agendas are forwarded on the timeline at which times. Also, while we're at it, here are four other possible outcomes that COULD have happened in a "What If" scenario, and how they would have affected the war (for better or worse) in the even you want to change them. Here are the people you cannot change if you wish to remain 'true' to the setting. For example, you would never sit down to run a game in my campaign world and change LCpt. Thia Halmades as the head of the Academy. He is, everyone knows it, he's a major NPC. Lots of minor NPCs come and go, but these Major NPCs do not change.

 

Then once that was established (and you're right, maybe I'm talking about five books and I just don't know it) I would install updated combat scenarios for vehicles (increased weapon damage overall, increased hull overall) so normal weapons have minimal - or very lucky - effects. I'd also spend far more time developing the aliens as something other than faceless killers, which may be very Iron Age of me, but I can't help it. Read Grendel, never looked at it the same way again. Everyone has a story, even if it's a nasty one.

 

So those are some thoughts I had on the topic. Does that answer your question?

[GreyGuardian]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

suggested fix for those that don't like the dalek.... errr xenovore origin - agents of the elder worms manipulated the origin race into creating the xenovores. Then the elder worm (or their agents - aka the Thane) start the war and get the xenovores deployed. Thereafter they can use psionic manipulation to guide the xenovores assaults to be beneficial to the elder worms' agenda.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

 

So those are some thoughts I had on the topic. Does that answer your question?

Very much so. At least it covers the theory of your hypothetical setting. It also gives me more than a few points to dwell on as I delve through the mental footwork of taking concept and applying it to practical application (ie planning and running a game).

[azato]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

I do not have TE or Space Hero. I do have a bunch of 2300AD books. If I were to purchase Alien Wars without the above mentioned books, would it be beneficial? Is there much on weapons and vehicles as well as military matters (tactics and command structures)?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Good morning, Azato. Welcome(ish) to the boards; I see you joined recently but don't post much as of yet. Hope that changes! In answer to your question, I don't know spit about 2300AD unfortunately. I can say, on whether Alien Wars would be beneficial, that it depends on what you're looking for. There IS a section on guns, equipment & vehicles, but there's also another book, Spacer's Toolkit which focuses on those things specifically.

 

Tactics & Command Structure are things that I found lacking in the book; Alien Wars was (to me/IMO/YMMV/etc.) a collection of events across a century of human development crammed into a book which happened to discuss the effects that the Xenovore War put on said culture and development. I think I really liked many of the ideas that were presented in the text, but it came up lacking for me & what I was looking for. If you go back & read my posts I'm saying, in short "There's no war in my Alien Wars." It's like not getting peanuts in your Snickers bar - then it becomes a Milky Way, which isn't what you bought.

 

That's a pretty good explanation. The wrapper says "Snickers" and it came across like a Milky Way - which is a great candy bar! Just not the bar I thought I was buying. At the end of the day, I can recommend Alien Wars, but it's light on the war and heavy on the political struggle of the time. It does go into human & alien tech to a certain extent, but not to the degree I would have liked to have seen. Even today your average soldier can be outfitted with one of a dozen weapons, many of which are different caliber rifles, pistols, and so on - each with their own strengths and weaknesses. There's a homogenization I didn't buy into. The gear they illustrated looks VERY cool and it's done in a very HERO System way - lots of crunchy detail and strong balance from one piece to the next. That was very groovy, and I dug on that bit.

 

Where I was frustrated was the lack of the telling of a heroic war story - it was a political struggle that happened at the front of the stage, where the actors stood, while a projection of a war occured on the screen behind them. Even the story of the Xenovores is one of political struggle. So it depends really on what you're looking for. Is it beneficial? Absolutely! But it's more beneficial to some than others. Read through this thread then hit us back with any questions you may have.

 

And welcome again to the boards. Have some rep for getting this far in my lengthy posts.

[azato]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Good morning' date=' Azato. Welcome(ish) to the boards; I see you joined recently but don't post much as of yet. Hope that changes! [/quote']

 

Dude! You started these boards 1 month before I did and I only have 5.56% of the posts you have. Either you are a master hacker or you are one of the typingest dudes! I lack the breadth of knowledge AND the verbosity to get that ratio much better!

 

There is no local game store and the closest one (1hr away) had a big sale because it was their 5th anniversery. I did get to look at Alien Wars and I gave it a pass. I did pick up the Spacers Tool Kit, Star Hero and Terran Empire (among other things).

 

I think i am good to go now. I appriciate the wisdom, the encouragement and the rep!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Meh, no problem. If you really want to bore yourself to tears you can go and do a search for all my posts - all the ones that are counted, and then the nutty amount I've made to the NGD that AREN'T counted. I can no longer post at work so I've slowed dramatically, but I still tend to post on a regular basis (nights & weekends). Just wait - once I get a SmartPhone/PocketPC there'll be no stoppin' meh.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

azato, since you have all those 2300 AD books, you might appreciate these HERO conversion notes for that game for Characteristics, Skills, and Weapons, plus professional Package Deals: http://users2.ev1.net/~redroach/ad2300/Hero.htm

(Note that the "Space Military" Package Deal will have to be highlighted to be read.)

 

I also recommend exploring the rest of that website, "2300 AD Collective." It has a great deal of quality fan-created material for the game and/or setting.

[azato]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

azato' date=' since you have all those [i']2300 AD[/i] books, you might appreciate these HERO conversion notes for that game for Characteristics, Skills, and Weapons, plus professional Package Deals: http://users2.ev1.net/~redroach/ad2300/Hero.htm

(Note that the "Space Military" Package Deal will have to be highlighted to be read.)

 

I also recommend exploring the rest of that website, "2300 AD Collective." It has a great deal of quality fan-created material for the game and/or setting.

 

I have looked at the coversions. What seemed to lacking (I have not been consistant in my reasearch since I have been shifting genres) is the lack of military stuff (which I now got with the tool kit).

 

I am not sure that I am that keen on the Kafers. I was hoping that there might be a way of blending the two (AW and 2300) together rather seemlessly. But, after seeing AW, I don't think there is.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Don't buy the hype. Seamlessness exists purely in the mind of the author, not the audience. If you want to work Xenovores into a 2300AD setting, bam, done. It's all writing and special effects. This weeks Alien Invasion is next week's Demonic Invasion is the following months ABC special marathon "Invasion." It's all in how you weave it, not in the SFX behind it.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Just some thoughts after reading Thia Halmades posts. Does it seem like the Alien Wars feel was more akin to Babylon-5 than to Aliens or Starship Troopers? Upon thinking about it, the political leaning (meaning that it leans more towards politics than war) seems to be tailored more towards the senior ranks than to the grunt. I mean, is Sgt. Smithers going to be more interested in who the head of the Ministry of Wheat Sales or whether or not that new gatling gyrojet cannon is going work right? Cpt. Sheridan is most assuredly going to want to know the overall details like fleet strength and deployment, but the flight crew tech is more concerned about tuning that Severenson fuel valve to get the most efficiency out of it.

 

Just some wandering thoughts.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Starship Troopers had a heavily political slant, even though the main character spent most of the book as an enlisted man, and never (to my memory) rising above lieutenant.

[Mantis]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Starship Troopers had a heavily political slant' date=' even though the main character spent most of the book as an enlisted man, and never (to my memory) rising above lieutenant.[/quote']SST detailed a political *system*, but never any details of the politics involved - never a word of who was in charge and what their political leaning was, what their specific policies were, who was in Opposition and their platform, etc, etc (none of the stuff that fills political threads in the NGD, basically). The important thing to the story was that Earth was a Democracy, fighting the good fight against the godless commie Chinese, er, hive-mind Arachnids for domination of the Universe.

 

[Funny: I originally typo'ed "good fight" as "food fight", which is, of course, what Alien Wars is all about!]

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

[Funny: I originally typo'ed "good fight" as "food fight"' date= which is, of course, what Alien Wars is all about!]

A perfect idea for a comedic AW campaign, there.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

Ya ya, it is very politicky. My recollection of Starship Troopers was mostly the detailing of the struggle from a bizarre, 1st person somehow knowing everything hybrid while I discuss the functionality of my government. I remember the book being about theory, not actually about conflict. They may have represented G-dless Commie Red Bastards, but danged if I know one way or the other. I preferred the film.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

*Thia Halmades would like to note at this time he's extremely grateful there is no negative rep, as the amount of flame he would get for the above post is rather tremendous.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

*Thia Halmades would like to note at this time he's extremely grateful there is no negative rep' date=' as the amount of flame he would get for the above post is rather tremendous.[/quote']

What's that supposed to mean? :mad:

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Xenovores *Possible Spoilers*

 

It means, as a general rule, I'm one of the few people who enjoyed the film "Starship Troopers" and just about everyone else I know hates it. What my friend Jason calls the "Matrix Revolutions Syndrome;" it's proven my tastes don't mesh with most other people's. I liked Starship Troopers. I thought the 3rd Matrix film was genius, and that X3 was crap, and so on. Most flame wars begin because people take matters of opinion as matters of fact. I don't, it's just my opinion, and I present it as such.